2016 Four Continents Ladies SP

[NAOTMAA]

I don't think that interview means Frank has given up on Gracie. He just means he has thrown the ball into her court. She needs to get it together in her head, before Frank can made more progress with her.

So she's one step away from being Tim Goebal to him? Just kidding, different situation I know

I think unless its Gracie who leaves him he's with her till the end. The USFSA is so in love with her and the US has nobody better at the moment. Unless Frank can snatch one of the younger girls like Tyler Pierce or Bradie Tennell and make them contenders fast he has nobody at the moment either.

 

[FlattFan]

Yes, Elizaveta pre-rotates her flip, but it's clearly below 180 degrees (and the flip is not her best jump, the pre-rotation on the lutz is minimal), which is fine by the rules. Satoko prerotates more than 180 degrees. Always.
EDIT: Her axel is fine. So not always.

Oh please. The previous poster made a bold claim that Liza does not pre-rotate. Sure thing she does. They all do. 180 degree vs. 145 degree vs. 90 degree, there's some pre rotation in there. Should you go back and downgrade Liza's flips? And where is the magic number 180 degrees coming from?

 

[FlattFan]

What a stupid idea to put the flip in there. Just stupid. There's no other word to describe that strategy.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Instead theorizing the things that could exist on a jump how about you tell us what was done in this instance that would have you awarding positive GOE. On top of that when three out of six things call for negative GOE how than does that not sort of make the whole thing a wash.

I'm not a judge, I'm just pointing out that you can get solid +GOE on a jump that isn't spectacular in height or distance.

 

[andromache]

Oh please. The previous poster made a bold claim that Liza does not pre-rotate. Sure thing she does. They all do. 180 degree vs. 145 degree vs. 90 degree, there's some pre rotation in there. Should you go back and downgrade Liza's flips? And where is the magic number 180 degrees coming from?

There have been some jumpamatrons showing that, at least sometimes, Satoko does an entire rotation on her toe pick.

She's a lovely skater with some great qualities, but I can't help but every time I see someone praise her for her consistency. It's probably easier not to fall when you're barely getting off the ice and essentially doing doubles. I don't mean to criticize Satoko as a person, and I'm sure it was very difficult for her to change the rotation on her jumps to jump against her natural rotation, but it doesn't mean she deserves full credit for the jumps she's putting out there.

 

[koatcue]

Imagine Miyahara with Tuk's jumps:scard8:

 

[koatcue]

I have watched Gracie practice session in person many times. One thing I noticed is that her jumping form/technique/mode seems not very stable to me. She always make small changes/adjustment/ to her jumps during practice session, including this season. While that is not what a consistent skater do in practice( at competition practice). you will find that Yuna or Miyahara or the consistent Russian skater of the season will jump exactly the same every time.
Gracie has been doing that for quite some time now. I think even Ashley has a more stable jumping mode.
Gracie has the goods , technical arsonal. Therefore, people has very high hope on her and think that all her issue is mental.
but maybe Gracie and her team needs to address this issue. finalize her jump mode.

Somehow it sounds offensive to me:dev2:

 

[Meoima]

There have been some jumpamatrons showing that, at least sometimes, Satoko does an entire rotation on her toe pick.
She's a lovely skater with some great qualities, but I can't help but every time I see someone praise her for her consistency. It's probably easier not to fall when you're barely getting off the ice and essentially doing doubles. I don't mean to criticize Satoko as a person, and I'm sure it was very difficult for her to change the rotation on her jumps to jump against her natural rotation, but it doesn't mean she deserves full credit for the jumps she's putting out there.

I know right, but I have given up on complaining about that, the same way I have given up on Gracie.

 

[Lexiglass]

Well, because there are aspects that contribute to GOE that have nothing to do with the quality of the jump. You can have a difficult entry. You can do steps prior to the jump (which is a different thing than a difficult entry apparently). You can have great extension on the landing. Doing those three things well could get you +2 and have nothing to do with height, distance, air position, or flow into or out of the jump.

Bolded statement is technically true, but also . No wonder people are frustrated with scoring when the "grade of execution" has nothing to do with quality!! I would hope (perhaps naively) that judges are not automatons, and when they see a jump that is clearly not "world class" called clean, they would not reward it with additional GOE, no matter how many impressive steps the skater puts into and out of the crappy jump. I'm pretty sure if they study the negative GOE criteria, they could find a way to justify cancelling out any positive GOE criteria that have "nothing to do with quality". And if we have developed a judging system that does not value quality over difficult features that apparently can be accomplished even when the element itself is poor, than the judging system doesn't make sense.

 

[senatormls]

Saw some of the performances on YouTube. Very impressed with Kanako, good program for her. If I was nit-picky, she was leaning a bit on her jump landings. Satoko, <<<3 her!!! Gracie, well, the K&C said it all. Attitude? Long flight? Forced to go? I don't know, but I hope she can do a 180 by the time she arrives in Boston. Poor Frank, he is getting too old for this.... behaviour. I really believe that Gracie was scored too high. 50 points is more like it. Mirai is just gaining momentum! Keep smiling honey!

 

[solani]

Oh please. The previous poster made a bold claim that Liza does not pre-rotate. Sure thing she does. They all do. 180 degree vs. 145 degree vs. 90 degree, there's some pre rotation in there. Should you go back and downgrade Liza's flips? And where is the magic number 180 degrees coming from?

Oh, you can thank me later.
I think it's time you should read the Technical Panel Handbook Single Skating.
It's an interesting read, if you don't want to read it all please forward to page 23 "Cheated take off". There you get the answer why Satokos jumps are cheated (although I don't like the word cheated for it, it sounds as if the skater would do it on purpose, and that's not the case imho) and also why the tech panel doesn't call those downgrades.

 

[solani]

She got a 3Fe here though.

Yes, that's what I meant. Do you think she would still do the flip if it was called correctly in previous events this season? Surely not.

 

[fallingsk8er]

I'm beginning to love Satoko. She always delivers a clean and entertaining program. I think she will be on the podium at worlds

 

[Tutto]

I'm beginning to love Satoko. She always delivers a clean and entertaining program. I think she will be on the podium at worlds

She is quietly unstoppable

 

[Ophelia]

Imagine Miyahara with Tuk's jumps:scard8:

She would be unbeatable.

 

[jenaj]

There have been some jumpamatrons showing that, at least sometimes, Satoko does an entire rotation on her toe pick.

She's a lovely skater with some great qualities, but I can't help but every time I see someone praise her for her consistency. It's probably easier not to fall when you're barely getting off the ice and essentially doing doubles. I don't mean to criticize Satoko as a person, and I'm sure it was very difficult for her to change the rotation on her jumps to jump against her natural rotation, but it doesn't mean she deserves full credit for the jumps she's putting out there.

Skaters aren't judged on pre-rotations, are they? Only if the rules are changed should she be called for it. That assumes, of course, that she is in fact really "doing doubles" instead of triples. I also have a more general problem with needing to use slo-mo "jumpmatrons" to figure out if a jump is rotated correctly.

 

[koatcue]

She would be unbeatable.

Agree. Such consistency WITH huge jumps

 

[NaVi]

Skaters aren't judged on pre-rotations, are they?

There is a limit to pre-rotations but judges don't look at the takeoff in slow-mo so it's not something that's really taken into account very often.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Skaters aren't judged on pre-rotations, are they? Only if the rules are changed should she be called for it. That assumes, of course, that she is in fact really "doing doubles" instead of triples. I also have a more general problem with needing to use slo-mo "jumpmatrons" to figure out if a jump is rotated correctly.

The rules state a clear forward takeoff from backwards jumps should be downgraded. Therefore anything over 180 on take off should be considered cheated since 180 is a full turn and anything over that seems "clear" to me. So those saying there is no merit and calling out pre rotated jumps are misinformed. What's unclear to me is if the judges count the body or the blade when taking this into consideration. That is assuming they take the time to look at these jumps which they can only review at regular speed for some illogical reason. I'm not as concerned with the body myself as much as the toe pick or the last blade to leave the ice. The body can wind up and lead but the blade shouldn't turn more than 180 degrees ice.

 

[FlattFan]

Oh, you can thank me later.
I think it's time you should read the Technical Panel Handbook Single Skating.
It's an interesting read, if you don't want to read it all please forward to page 23 "Cheated take off". There you get the answer why Satokos jumps are cheated (although I don't like the word cheated for it, it sounds as if the skater would do it on purpose, and that's not the case imho) and also why the tech panel doesn't call those downgrades.

Selective reading much? You can only see it in slow-mo. At regular replay, no one is prerotating.