2014-2015 GPF Pairs Free Skate 12/13

[apple123]

Do S/K have the lowest planned Basic Values among the six pairs at GPF? I don't have the number, and I'm curious to know.

 

[Skater Boy]

If D/R will be world champions this year, I am quite sad... Yes, guad, lutz etc... But something about them is off, transitions, connection, chemistry so to say...

I actually think there is a connection especially in the short program. I never really saw the chemistry of Sale and Pelletier or Brasseur and Eisler or the many American medal teams Ina and Zimmerman, Watson and Oppegard, the Carruthers. They have espeically in the shor thave crispness. Maybe they are more like Tomianna and Marin and many of the "generic" Russian champions - excellent speed, elements, nice presentation, power and decent flow = not everyone has that special G and G factor. V and T might fit that too, noe are that "special" and logically special is a rarity or should be. K and S will have to up the ante. V and T might be scared too. D and R are becomng more consistent and I do think they are a worthy champion as are K and S or V and T. The current Chinese pairs do not deserve to be called special or magic either so I don't think D and R should be criticized so much. Sure she is not Gordeeva but Duhamel is more of Rodina - power and fire on ice - different like Slutskaya -she was no ballerina doesn't ean she isnt artisitc. I just can believe the "hatred" towards D and R. Really there are few teams who can be special. In some ways Pang and Tong were cheap imitiations or a variation of S and Z who really are imitators or versions of Russian great teams. Maybe to make the posters here happy D andR shoud take acting lessons?

 

[katia]

"Then DO them! They say they can do 3T+3T, 3S and 4STh... and the hardest they put out there is 3T+2T+2T, 2A, and 3ZTh."

Do not worry, they will.

I am sure they will, the question is WHEN???

 

[katia]

Reading all these comments lamenting about the death of Pairs skating as we know it because somebody dare to win a competition doing Triple Lutzes and Quad while the closest competitors can't even successfully complete a Triple toe combo with the only clean SBS being Juvenile level double axels - you gotta love how dramatic some people can be. It makes me wonder Trankov should take them out to watch Ice Dance instead, last I heard, Marina Anissina is looking to come back...with a Russian Prince and Trankov is perfect I think.

By definition, Pairs Skating -- unlike Ice Dance -- is a display of athleticism and showcasing big tricks (e.g. over head lifts, throws, jumps and etc.) where two people skate in good unison throughout the entire performance. In other words, the expectation of "unison", skating as one, is also not at the same level. Whereas Ice Dance often has specific requirements regarding expression and a chosen theme, no such requirement exist in Pairs. For example, with the Paso Doble SD, any team who skated it with smiles from beginning to the end will get ding big time. In fact, a key point of Spanish theme dance is how serious they are with the very occasional and specific exception allowed for a short duration "break" on the part of the woman. But for the man, if he smiles even once, his team is done. Seems to me, some people are watching Pairs with idea the skaters should be cooking their steaks to their exact personal preference -- wrong sport, I say. It reminds me how teams like Shen/Zhao were put down using the same kind of lame excuses for years but look at what they have achieved? Shen/Zhao could never be great ice dancers, likewise, for the last 15 years, China has dominated the Pairs discipline with good reasons but haven't been able to replicate the same success in Ice Dance.

If some people find watching those big tricks boring, they really ought to switch channel to Ice Dance instead. Don't go to a coffee shop to complain their tea is bad.

 

[Snow63]

"Then DO them! They say they can do 3T+3T, 3S and 4STh... and the hardest they put out there is 3T+2T+2T, 2A, and 3ZTh."

I am sure they will, the question is WHEN???

The answer is NEXT SEASON.

 

[katia]

So Moser said no new content for S/K this season. Next season they will add three new elements: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20141213/794703960.html

I don't see that she said that they will add three new elements? she said that she won't tell what they will add.
"Мы уже определили те вещи, которые будем добавлять. Но что это за вещи, я не скажу" (we already identified the things we will add but what are they I will not say)

 

[katia]

The answer is NEXT SEASON.

perhaps "yes" perhaps "no." When we will see next season THEN we will know for sure.

 

[Snow63]

I don't see that she said that they will add three new elements? she said that she won't tell what they will add.
"Мы уже определили те вещи, которые будем добавлять. Но что это за вещи, я не скажу" (we already identified the things we will add but what are they I will not say)

Hmmm... looks like you're right.
They changed it. :scratch: I clearly remember the word 'three' in the article. Or maybe I misread it. :scratch:

 

[Snow63]

perhaps "yes" perhaps "no." When we will see next season THEN we will know for sure.

No need to point out obvious things like this. Of course no one knows for sure.
If they're doing them at practices, I don't see why they won't include them in their new programs.

 

[katia]

Hmmm... looks like you're right.
They changed it. :scratch: I clearly remember the word 'tree' in the article. Or maybe I misread it. :scratch:

hmm, no I don't think you could remeber the word "tree" because I am nearly certain that she did not use the word "дерево" in her interview.

 

[Snow63]

hmm, no I don't think you could remeber the word "tree" because I am nearly certain that she did not use the word "дерево" in her interview.

My mistake I'm sure you know what I meant.

 

[whatif]

Some people are acting like Mozer made any such promise before and failed to deliver. WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? LOL.
The answer is whenever they are ready.

 

[LittleLotte29]

Yep. I see now they have the pairs at 22:25, and after the dance. So when is the dance live?

Lucky you, I watch on YouTube as the closest broadcast I can watch is on Wednesday, and it's probably highlights ;/ So great...
Sui and Han skated well, but they were less sure than in France, I believe, and she made a big mistake in combination (almost the same she did in Canada).

 

[Sandpiper]

Firstly, I'd like to say the placements are correct. Duhamel/Radford skated very well, with difficult elements, and were rewarded for it.

But secondly, I'd like to explain why Duhamel/Radford may not be everyone's cup of tea. It's not simply, "Don't want big elements? Just want romance? Go watch ice dance!"

I respect Duhamel/Radford for their SBS 3Lz and throw 4S. I'm glad they're bringing these elements to the pairs discipline. However, they are not some technical machine that does everything better than all the other pairs. Their throws do not get the height of Sui/Han, the soft extended landings of Peng/Zhang, or heck, even the exit speed of Stolbova/Klimov. Their twist is solid and serviceable, but it doesn't make me go "Wow!" the way Sui/Han and Peng/Zhang's do (and the Chinese pairs even do 4Tw in the free, which should cancel out D/R's 4S throw advantage).

I also don't think D/R have the lines, power, and skating skills of S/K. I wouldn't say D/R's programs are more complex than Kavaguti/Smirnov's, or even the Chinese pairs. YMMV how much these things should matter in pairs, of course.

I personally do enjoy pairs for the elements. It just so happens that what I enjoy most--high throws, big twists--aren't what D/R offer. And I care about the performance aspect, just like I do for singles. I don't think those aspects should only be present in ice dance.

 

[whatif]

Well, I am watching the replay by BESP and the commentators can't stop commenting about the number of transitions that S/K's programme packs.

 

[Blades of Passion]

S/K's Long Program this season does them a disservice. It's repetitive and overbearing. They've lost their chance at the world title this year, unless D/R really do poorly at that competition.

 

[whatif]

S/K's Long Program this season does them a disservice. It's repetitive and overbearing. They've lost their chance at the world title this year, unless D/R really do poorly at that competition.

which they totally capable of. But I am not sure S/K are setting the very specific target this year to win Worlds. Based on Mozer's comments, it's more opportunistic approach. I mean she basically acknowledged today that they expect Canadians to win it.

 

[matcha]

D/R incite absolutely nothing in me when they skate, it's packed technically and they're obviously great skaters, but I'm left cold. But great for them getting gold and beating my favourite team haha

Also, the fact that they're skating to Muse in their free just makes me hate them, a little bit (okay, a lot).

 

[WeakAnkles]

Reading all these comments lamenting about the death of Pairs skating as we know it because somebody dare to win a competition doing Triple Lutzes and Quad while the closest competitors can't even successfully complete a Triple toe combo with the only clean SBS being Juvenile level double axels - you gotta love how dramatic some people can be. It makes me wonder Trankov should take them out to watch Ice Dance instead, last I heard, Marina Anissina is looking to come back...with a Russian Prince and Trankov is perfect I think.

By definition, Pairs Skating -- unlike Ice Dance -- is a display of athleticism and showcasing big tricks (e.g. over head lifts, throws, jumps and etc.) where two people skate in good unison throughout the entire performance. In other words, the expectation of "unison", skating as one, is also not at the same level. Whereas Ice Dance often has specific requirements regarding expression and a chosen theme, no such requirement exist in Pairs. For example, with the Paso Doble SD, any team who skated it with smiles from beginning to the end will get ding big time. In fact, a key point of Spanish theme dance is how serious they are with the very occasional and specific exception allowed for a short duration "break" on the part of the woman. But for the man, if he smiles even once, his team is done. Seems to me, some people are watching Pairs with idea the skaters should be cooking their steaks to their exact personal preference -- wrong sport, I say. It reminds me how teams like Shen/Zhao were put down using the same kind of lame excuses for years but look at what they have achieved? Shen/Zhao could never be great ice dancers, likewise, for the last 15 years, China has dominated the Pairs discipline with good reasons but haven't been able to replicate the same success in Ice Dance.

If some people find watching those big tricks boring, they really ought to switch channel to Ice Dance instead. Don't go to a coffee shop to complain their tea is bad.

They really need to have a Big Gold Star icon here, because this post deserves, oh, about a gazilllllllllllllion of 'em.

 

[emma]

As someone who has watched very little pairs since 2010, I must say I found this event very exciting and it makes me want to watch more pairs.

I can't get into the debates you are having about S/K versus D/R (or even versus various Chinese couples) because I haven't watched much for so long (just my two or three favorites over the last few years). I will say that I find S/K's smootheness, flow, lines, transitions and positions to be really eye catching. It was also nice to see good unison in side by side spins - when I last watched pairs, the spins had gone to hell even in the best couples at times. I also found D/R energy and big tricks to be very 'wow'! For me, each displayed a different kind of connection - the latter a sort of energetic enthusiasm that I found really fun to watch. I was so happy to see them happy!

It was also great to see the various Chinese couples...lot's there to work on/with and I enjoyed it!

anyway, this was a blast for me and I might just be back to watching pairs!