State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

[andromache]

Uh...Michelle had short hair for part of her time with Frank. 1999 and 2000 pictured here:

http://68.media.tumblr.com/d0b7630e7fdf055313f332799d4cbd97/tumblr_mld2p0ivdU1r5ashao1_1280.jpg

So obviously, he was dictating that she must always have long hair in a bun and she, obviously, complied and that, obviously, was to maintain a "princess" image because all princesses wear their hair in buns. Like this most famous princess and her iconic buns:

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/106/590x/Princess-Diana-will-online-571341.jpg

Or we could retire this rather sexist nonsense of criticizing every female skater who appears slightly feminine with that ridiculous label.

Thank you!

Sick of seeing Frank Carroll criticized for his "princessy" lady skaters. Pretty dresses, hair in bun, nice to media = princessy?? Isn't that everyone???? Heck, why does that have to be generic? Geez.

Remember Michelle Kwan's Salome program, her first real "grown-up" program with Frank and Lori? Was that princessy? Does skating to classical music automatically equal princessy?

 

[mrrice]

Thank you!

Sick of seeing Frank Carroll criticized for his "princessy" lady skaters. Pretty dresses, hair in bun, nice to media = princessy?? Isn't that everyone???? Heck, why does that have to be generic? Geez.

Remember Michelle Kwan's Salome program, her first real "grown-up" program with Frank and Lori? Was that princessy? Does skating to classical music automatically equal princessy?

There's a big difference between a princess and a Diva. I don't remember which interview it came from but, I'm sure one of Michelle's Uber fans will know. I saw Michelle in 1999 and she was a bit like a Princess but, by 2001 she was a full fledged Diva and described herself that way. Even Uncle Dick used to say that her battles with Irina and Maria where like 3 Diva's performing at the Opera. I stop thinking of ANY skater as a Princess once they become seniors. By 2002 Jennifer Robinson was like the Queen of Canadian skating. She was obviously older but, she was beautiful and had a very mature style. Not very fast but, so gorgeous that you couldn't help but be under her spell.

IMO, Ashley Wagner is certainly a Diva and I don't think she ever thought of herself as a princess. I could be wrong, of course.

 

[louisa05]

Thank you!

Sick of seeing Frank Carroll criticized for his "princessy" lady skaters. Pretty dresses, hair in bun, nice to media = princessy?? Isn't that everyone???? Heck, why does that have to be generic? Geez.

Remember Michelle Kwan's Salome program, her first real "grown-up" program with Frank and Lori? Was that princessy? Does skating to classical music automatically equal princessy?

At this moment in time, as a sub teacher who works in two high schools, I can usually count on far less than one hand the number of teenage girls I see who don't have hair long enough for a bun. Short hair is not a thing with the teens at the moment. And for skaters (many whom are still teens), a bun is a neat way to keep long hair out of the way. My guess is that it is practicality more than anything. If styles were to swing back to shorter hair on younger girls, we might see less of it. Think back to Dorothy Hamill's era when short hair styles were fashionable and hers became the most fashionable of all.

 

[mrrice]

In my area of Central Ca. The French Twist is far more popular than the "Bun." In fact, buns were pretty much gone for high school and college dancers by the time I got to CSUN in 1992. Clovis High School in my town is currently wearing this hairstyle for competitions.

A decorated French Twist: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ea/b9/dd/eab9dde978857b958af326e1724f0e2f.jpg

 

[KwanIsALegend]

Correction: He wants another Michelle Kwan skater. One day I hope he realizes that he can't make skaters into something that they are not. And the pressure of being someone like Michelle is terrible. I wish hope that he allows Tessa to grow into her own style instead of making it for her.

I don't think we should assume what Frank wants.

 

[concorde]

I don't think we should assume what Frank wants.

I think it is fair to assume he wants to coach a winner. Beyond that, it is anyone's guess.

Sorry to be such a pain!

 

[FlattFan]

I think it is fair to assume he wants to coach a winner. Beyond that, it is anyone's guess.

Sorry to be such a pain!

Frank is not known for 'tanos and mime and backloading. It's fair to assume he's not in it to coach a winner. Otherwise, you'd have seen Gracie mimes robe jumping the first half of the programs, and then jumps 7 times in a row in the second half.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Frank is not known for 'tanos and mime and backloading. It's fair to assume he's not in it to coach a winner.

He also started with Gracie when she was 18 IIRC. The Russians who do started with their coach at a young age.

 

[concorde]

Frank is not known for 'tanos and mime and backloading. It's fair to assume he's not in it to coach a winner. Otherwise, you'd have seen Gracie mimes robe jumping the first half of the programs, and then jumps 7 times in a row in the second half.

If he thought she was capable of it, her programs would have included them.

I think he has a skater that may be capable of them so it will be inyeresting to see what the "team" chooses to do.

 

[FlattFan]

If he thought she was capable of it, her programs would have included them.

He thought she was capable of a triple flip in the SP. So never mind what he thinks.

 

[louisa05]

In my area of Central Ca. The French Twist is far more popular than the "Bun." In fact, buns were pretty much gone for high school and college dancers by the time I got to CSUN in 1992. Clovis High School in my town is currently wearing this hairstyle for competitions.

A decorated French Twist: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ea/b9/dd/eab9dde978857b958af326e1724f0e2f.jpg

To be fair, we see a lot of different up-dos on skaters, too. Gracie's hair for the FS this year was usually done with braids, not a classic ballerina bun (so there again, it starts to appear that Frank may not be dictating ballerina buns or hair dos at all). I doubt we'll ever see twists with much for decorative pieces just because of the risk of something falling out on the ice which is a much bigger danger for skaters than for dance.

 

[KatGrace1925]

Gracie didn't do tanos/mime/backloading and onviously didn't need them. The only think keeping her from winning was not landing jumps. Worlds hurt her because it would have been hers if she had just landed that triple toe and tripled her last lutz.

 

[KatGrace1925]

He thought she was capable of a triple flip in the SP. So never mind what he thinks.

She hit her flip in exhibitions last year and hit it in the long over and over again. It wasn't the jump but rather her mental approach to it.

 

[chuckm]

I noticed at JW that Tom Z is coaching Australia's Holly Harris. Yikes! Holly's FS was a carrot garden. Holly has beautiful presentation skills, but her jumps were UR and DG. I'm afraid Tom will insist that she drill on jumps, drop the choreo and forget about the artistry. I'd hate to see another promising young skater becoming an automaton on ice (and still getting gigged for URs).

 

[chuckm]

Mirai competed at the Denver Invitational this weekend and tried the 3A in her FS. The attempt failed. Sorry, no details available.

 

[ice coverage]

Mirai competed at the Denver Invitational this weekend and tried the 3A in her FS. The attempt failed. Sorry, no details available.

LOL, "failed" is a strong and not very meaningful word -- given that no details are available.

Does "failed" mean stepping out??? One hand down??? Falling??? Underrotation? Popping???

For me, popping would be failure.

For me, a less egregious mistake would not necessarily be "failure."

 

[andromache]

I noticed at JW that Tom Z is coaching Australia's Holly Harris. Yikes! Holly's FS was a carrot garden. Holly has beautiful presentation skills, but her jumps were UR and DG. I'm afraid Tom will insist that she drill on jumps, drop the choreo and forget about the artistry. I'd hate to see another promising young skater becoming an automaton on ice (and still getting gigged for URs).

To be fair to Tom Z., all the artistry in the world doesn't matter in competition without some successful jumps. Unlike Mirai, Holly is probably young enough to have a better shot at getting rid of the UR problem permanently. The older you are, the harder it is to get rid of those kinds of issues (see: Ashley, Mao, Mirai). At the same time, I do wonder if Tom is a little overrated as a technician. Aside from his work with Vincent, none of his skaters have been astounding in regards to jump proficiency. (Max was, perhaps, in 2013, but his jumps do not seem to have progressed much in the past few years). And Mirai has been with Tom for about as long as Ashley has been with Raf, and Mirai just hasn't progressed as much as Ashley has technically in that time.

 

[ice coverage]

Mirai competed at the Denver Invitational this weekend and tried the 3A in her FS. .... Sorry, no details available.

This just in:

Jackie Wong tweeted details a few minutes ago.

Mirai Nagasu at Denver Invitational
37.94, 32.10, SP 70.04: 3F3T<, 3Lz, 2A
69.62, 66.27, FS 135.89: 3F3T, 3A<<, 3S, 2A3T2T, 3Lo, 3Lo2T, 2A

https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/843974358683058176​

---

As an aside, I'm pleased (but not surprised) to see this comment from the host club:

... Huge shout out to Mirai Nagasu for being super wonderful to all the skaters ...
https://www.facebook.com/DenverFSC/posts/1327034364008985 (Mar 18)​

The post includes a nice off-ice photo with the two other Senior Ladies competitors.

 

[FlattFan]

where is her 3Lz in the LP? Can't put 3A and take out 3Lz.

 

[chuckm]

True. 3a<< is worth 3.3 and 3a< is worth 5.9. The value could be even less if there are other flaws (2 ft, so, hd, to). A 3z is worth 6.0.