I've just read this: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/dec/03/russia-accused-athletics-doping-cover-up-olympics. I hope isn't true, I can't imagine the consequences...
German documentary accuses Russia of massive doping cover-up
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If it's true, then there's really something wrong with the entire Russian sports system omf
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My goodness!
Well, we know there was doping going on in the Russian Biathlon team last season. And the news came out just a week before the Sochi Olympics (here is my post about it on here).
Let's hope that the doping doesn't extend to any other winter sports. Because, then there will be question marks posed over the results of the entire Russian Winter Olympic team.
And we don't want the skating team to be associated with that sort of doubt.
CaroLiza_fan
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- Dec 12, 2012
My goodness!
Well, we know there was doping going on in the Russian Biathlon team last season. And the news came out just a week before the Sochi Olympics (here is my post about it on here).
Let's hope that the doping doesn't extend to any other winter sports. Because, then there will be question marks posed over the results of the entire Russian Winter Olympic team.
And we don't want the skating team to be associated with that sort of doubt.
CaroLiza_fan
Hajo Seppelt is a very respectable journalist with good knowledge in sports and you can reckon that Sochi was no different from London in that respect. Another MDR docu reported about Xenon treatment for Russian athletes in Sochi last February. Another name that is going around in German sport's circles is Armin Klümper (he died a few years ago and since then a commission is still analysing his doping methods) who treated with doping meds to many athletes (ice skaters as well) in the 80s. One of them, Heiko Fischer, recieved treatment in Freiburg with Klümper because of back problems once. The sad fact is that Heiko Fischer died of heart failure 25 years ago which may be a possible result of illegal tratment with certain substances by Klümper. His coach Karel Faijfr also bears some of the blame becasue he sent Fischer to Klümper. And Faijfr hasn't got the best reputation for treating athletes of any age ethically either.
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Oh, don't start me about Karel Fajfr. I didn't know about his involvement in the situation you mentioned. But for the other stuff (which I am not going to elaborate on, as this is not the place), I strongly feel he should have been given a life ban rather than just 3 years.
I still can't believe he is back coaching, and is now working with so many elite level skaters.
Anyway, thank you for giving us some background information to the investigation.
Are there any websites that tell us more about the earlier MDR investigation you mentioned (I don't mind if it's in German). Because that story in the Guardian seems to be centred around athletics and the 2012 Summer Games (understandable as it is a British newspaper, and the British press is still obsessed with the London Olympics), whereas we are more interested in what is happening in winter sports.
Thank you again
CaroLiza_fan
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It's the same old story but it's always important that some journalists still talk about it for the sake of every athlete, in every country (any country has its doping strategy). To be honest Russia has begun a more concrete fight to doping in the last years, especially in athletics. Almost every athletes from the race-walking center in Saransk have been suspended (and we're talking about World, Olympic, junior and senior champions, record-men/women etc...). Russia was a superpower in female's 400m/800m/1500m/3000sc till 2-3 years ago, then lots of them have been suspended and in the last European Championship they won ZERO medals and had only 3 or 4 finalists in total. Just a coincidence?
In addition, any time a country is going to host (or has just hosted) an Olympic game, people are more motivated to investigate about doping. Do you remember the Xenon issue in Sochi? (always revealed by German authorities). Well... it has been banned by the WADA but only this Summer, in consequence of this scandal.
In addition, any time a country is going to host (or has just hosted) an Olympic game, people are more motivated to investigate about doping. Do you remember the Xenon issue in Sochi? (always revealed by German authorities). Well... it has been banned by the WADA but only this Summer, in consequence of this scandal.
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To me the documentary is not surpring.
Russians athletes competing in track and field (especially running, throwing and walking) and winter sports like cross country, biathlon have raised surpision for the last 10 years. There is an endless list of russian dopers.
Let´s hope that figure skating is not involved in those bad stories.
Russians athletes competing in track and field (especially running, throwing and walking) and winter sports like cross country, biathlon have raised surpision for the last 10 years. There is an endless list of russian dopers.
Let´s hope that figure skating is not involved in those bad stories.
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Now, isn't this interesting? When it was Carolina's name brought into the argument, there was a whole parade of people screaming that she was innocent, defending her to the hilt, etc, etc. As soon as a German documentary accuses the Russians (and NO-ONE thinks there's a bit of politics going on there?!) of doping, everyone is side-eye and gloomy and automatically assuming the documentary is 100% correct.
Carolina isn't accused of doping, but of lying to the WADA. No one claimed she was innocent of this, the issue there is that the ban proposed for her is too harsh.
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That's just twisting what actually happened around to make it fit your own biases. As of now, nobody started to blame any russian figure skater of doping, and nobody said Carolina was innocent either.
I did not watch the documentary yet, I have a link to it though but you can only access it from Germany or via a german IP so if wanted I can post it here but first I need the confirmation that its allowed by the mods 
Its in German though, so not entirely sure how much its worth it for you guys. (I could help translating though once the Column is up for NRW)
@ Topic
I have always been a person who doesn't like these type of judgments in regards of one single nation, while other nations are completely ignored. We need to think about one thing for a second, how can it be that some athletes are never questioned even though they break records and win more medals than anyone else did before - while those who hardly win anything are always guilty?
To me a lot that happens in the world right now is against Russia, reasons are unknown to me but its a very single sided situation and it makes me very angry.
Doping isn't a Russian story, its a world wide problem and it sadly happens everywhere.
The victim is the sport and the athletes who ruin their life with it, in Wrestling (show) hundreds of athletes died since the early 90s, people I grew up with who were as old as me...
Today however people don't dope with Steroids or EPO anymore, they found new ways and the consequences are yet to be seen. In the end my wish is that people are opening their eyes, questioning those who have to be questioned instead of running after a single nation just because the trend demands it.
Its in German though, so not entirely sure how much its worth it for you guys. (I could help translating though once the Column is up for NRW)
@ Topic
I have always been a person who doesn't like these type of judgments in regards of one single nation, while other nations are completely ignored. We need to think about one thing for a second, how can it be that some athletes are never questioned even though they break records and win more medals than anyone else did before - while those who hardly win anything are always guilty?
To me a lot that happens in the world right now is against Russia, reasons are unknown to me but its a very single sided situation and it makes me very angry.
Doping isn't a Russian story, its a world wide problem and it sadly happens everywhere.
The victim is the sport and the athletes who ruin their life with it, in Wrestling (show) hundreds of athletes died since the early 90s, people I grew up with who were as old as me...
Today however people don't dope with Steroids or EPO anymore, they found new ways and the consequences are yet to be seen. In the end my wish is that people are opening their eyes, questioning those who have to be questioned instead of running after a single nation just because the trend demands it.
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- Jan 11, 2014
But who said doping exists only in Russia? Why some people read what they want to read?
But this article is about Russian athletes, proven and suspended athletes... so why we should talk about different things? Only to make someone feels more comfortable?
Doping scandals exist everywhere, so do we have to start talking about Kenyan, Indian, Jamaican, American, Italian, French, Brasilian, German, Spanish, Chinese etc... athletes? I know it's the right season for a Minestrone, but too many ingredients are hardly digestible...
But this article is about Russian athletes, proven and suspended athletes... so why we should talk about different things? Only to make someone feels more comfortable?
Doping scandals exist everywhere, so do we have to start talking about Kenyan, Indian, Jamaican, American, Italian, French, Brasilian, German, Spanish, Chinese etc... athletes? I know it's the right season for a Minestrone, but too many ingredients are hardly digestible...
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Thank you both so much for pointing this out. I am getting fed up with a number of members accusing the rest of us of saying things that we aren't actually saying!
Alex D and alebi:
You are totally right - doping is happening all over the world. It just so happens that this particular investigation is about Russia. But an investigation could easily have taken place somewhere else.
I haven't seen the TV programme, so I don't know if it goes into wintersports. But, the Guardian story is purely about athletics.
Sorry, but in light of this, I have to question the motives of the original poster of this thread. Neither the title of the thread nor the original post make it clear that this story is about athletics.
This is a figure skating forum. So, when you see thread titles like that in "The Edge", you automatically think the story is about figure skating. And this story does not mention figure skating once.
Consequently, I am starting to wonder if this was a veiled attempt to re-open the debate over the Sochi figure skating results. I really hope not, as I got bored of that argument within 5 minutes of the competition finishing!
So, to avoid any possible confusion, perhaps this thread should be moved to Le Café, and the title changed to make clear that it is about athletics.
CaroLiza_fan
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Hajo Seppelt gave an interview this morning about his docu. He wants to make clear that this is not a Russian bashing of any sorts, but this matter refers to all sporting nations tempting or using doping methods in their respective disciplines. The international reaction has been quite lively and WADA as well as the IOC want to look into this evidence now. Let's see whether that really happens in a global industry like this with lots of money and success-hungry people around.
http://www.sportschau.de/doping/reaktionen-auf-ard-film100.html
http://www.sportschau.de/doping/videoxenonsystematischesdopingohnespuren100.html
this is the link about the Xeon doping in Sochi.
I agree with you about Karel Faijfr, but what can you do with the DEU which is so unprofessional and hasn't got the guts to do anything against corrupt and ethically questionable officials and coaches in their ranks? I would sleep better at night when I knew that Annabelle Prölß and Ruben Blommeart were with another master coach (Alexander König, Ingo Steuer or the Wendes, who both are now starting their education as coaches in Oberstdorf which I find really wonderful). But of course, Ingo is in Florida now doing very well with Brandon/Frazier that is absolutely ok under those circumstances he has been under.
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So, to avoid any possible confusion, perhaps this thread should be moved to Le Café, and the title changed to make clear that it is about athletics.
Le Café was my first option, but I couldn't put this thread there because of my user status or something like that. I also noticed the thread title was properly fixed.
Le Café was my first option, but I couldn't put this thread there because of my user status or something like that. I also noticed the thread title was properly fixed.
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Thank you both so much for pointing this out. I am getting fed up with a number of members accusing the rest of us of saying things that we aren't actually saying!
Alex D and alebi:
You are totally right - doping is happening all over the world. It just so happens that this particular investigation is about Russia. But an investigation could easily have taken place somewhere else.
I haven't seen the TV programme, so I don't know if it goes into wintersports. But, the Guardian story is purely about athletics.
Sorry, but in light of this, I have to question the motives of the original poster of this thread. Neither the title of the thread nor the original post make it clear that this story is about athletics.
This is a figure skating forum. So, when you see thread titles like that in "The Edge", you automatically think the story is about figure skating. And this story does not mention figure skating once.
Consequently, I am starting to wonder if this was a veiled attempt to re-open the debate over the Sochi figure skating results. I really hope not, as I got bored of that argument within 5 minutes of the competition finishing!
So, to avoid any possible confusion, perhaps this thread should be moved to Le Café, and the title changed to make clear that it is about athletics.
CaroLiza_fan
I had the impression this thread is about the documentary and not Forum users?
If someone really believes that only Russia is doping then I would find this very sad but this isn't the topic here.We are here to discuss the documentary and that documentary is focusing on Russian athletes alone and this is sadly a crusade that has been going through the media now for a few years.
Why does nobody has the guts to actually do the job right and report fair without "nationalities" ... I just don't get it, Russia won the most medals at Sochi so now we must make a documentary to show the world why... its so :think:
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indeed it is a sad story. its hard to understand why russia did this since russia has a huge infra with winter olympics. isnt it?
But the documentary is not soleley about athletics. It's not about doping in one discipline, but about systematic doping in every discipline. The documentary does not explicically mentions figure skating, but they name a few winter sports.
I strongly commend people to first watch the documentary and comment afterwards to ensure quality discussion and avoid speculation.
I believe doping, no matter who or what nationality, does not contribute to the olympic spirit and is unfair. This is not about russia bashing or whatever political reason people mentioned above.
I had the impression this thread is about the documentary and not Forum users?
We are here to discuss the documentary and that documentary is focusing on Russian athletes alone and this is sadly a crusade that has been going through the media now for a few years.
Why does nobody has the guts to actually do the job right and report fair without "nationalities" ... I just don't get it, Russia won the most medals at Sochi so now we must make a documentary to show the world why... its so :think:
Some people haven't realized the cold war is over
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Thank you. Hopefully that will shut up those people that think that it is all about bashing Russia.
But, it is good to hear that WADA and the IOC are taking it seriously, and are going to investigate. Whether it is true what these people say or not, it needs to be looked into.
Yes, that deeply concerned me too. But, as you say, what can you do? :disapp:
Very interesting to hear that Maylin and Dani are training to be coaches. That will be something to look forward to in the years to come, seeing how they (and their students) get on.
Mmmm. I didn't realise there were restrictions on posting to Le Café. I thought it was just the Politics forum where relatively new members couldn't post.
In that case, I am so sorry for criticising where this thread was posted. Trust me, it is nothing personal. It is just that I am getting so frustrated with some of the arguments happening on this forum at the moment, and that a lot of them are arising out of people not reading comments properly.
Sorry if I have upset you at all.
CaroLiza_fan
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