German documentary accuses Russia of massive doping cover-up

Alex D said:

I had the impression this thread is about the documentary and not Forum users? If someone really believes that only Russia is doping then I would find this very sad but this isn't the topic here.

We are here to discuss the documentary and that documentary is focusing on Russian athletes alone and this is sadly a crusade that has been going through the media now for a few years.

Why does nobody has the guts to actually do the job right and report fair without "nationalities" ... I just don't get it, Russia won the most medals at Sochi so now we must make a documentary to show the world why... its so :think:

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And that is one of the reasons that I have long believed that nationality should be taken out of sports where you compete as an individual. We should be focussing on the achievements (or cheating, as the case may be) of the athletes and their coaches themselves, not what flag happens to be behind them.

Eclair said:

But the documentary is not soleley about athletics. It's not about doping in one discipline, but about systematic doping in every discipline. The documentary does not explicically mentions figure skating, but they name a few winter sports.
I strongly commend people to first watch the documentary and comment afterwards to ensure quality discussion and avoid speculation.

I believe doping, no matter who or what nationality, does not contribute to the olympic spirit and is unfair. This is not about russia bashing or whatever political reason people mentioned above.

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Oh, don't worry. I agree with you. We cannot really comment about the documentary unless we have seen it ourselves.

But, if you read carefully, my comment was about the story in the Guardian newspaper that Naya linked to in the original post. And that story was purely about athletics.

Hope this clears things up

CaroLiza_fan

CaroLiza_fan said:

Thank you. Hopefully that will shut up those people that think that it is all about bashing Russia.

But, it is good to hear that WADA and the IOC are taking it seriously, and are going to investigate. Whether it is true what these people say or not, it needs to be looked into.



Yes, that deeply concerned me too. But, as you say, what can you do? :disapp:

Very interesting to hear that Maylin and Dani are training to be coaches. That will be something to look forward to in the years to come, seeing how they (and their students) get on.



Mmmm. I didn't realise there were restrictions on posting to Le Café. I thought it was just the Politics forum where relatively new members couldn't post.

In that case, I am so sorry for criticising where this thread was posted. Trust me, it is nothing personal. It is just that I am getting so frustrated with some of the arguments happening on this forum at the moment, and that a lot of them are arising out of people not reading comments properly.

Sorry if I have upset you at all.


CaroLiza_fan

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It's ok, Caroliza_fan, I'm not upset, there is no reason for it. I think the thread's place is just a formality

NAOTMAA said:

Some people haven't realized the cold war is over

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Hehe, if we believe the media these days, Putin is planning a war to conquer the world - I mean hey, have you guys started digging your bunkers yet for the invasion? :hopelessness:

But on a more serious note as this is a serious topic, I do hope that whatever the result will be wont get too much hype. I don't like to join sides or anything but I tend to get on the one of those who are accused as its always easier to join a majority than to join the weaker minority.

Call me a "silly guy"

I just want all to be good

And that is one of the reasons that I have long believed that nationality should be taken out of sports where you compete as an individual. We should be focussing on the achievements (or cheating, as the case may be) of the athletes and their coaches themselves, not what flag happens to be behind them.

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This would actually bring a new aspect to all these "topics" indeed. I honestly cant say if I would like that or not - its a situation that in theory fits the current globalization, I mean who does really start for his country these days? We have so many soccer players who are not playing for their original nation, same in the athletics etc. that nationalities tend to shift whenever needed.

On the other hand I saw how proud some athletes were at Sochi, after winning a medal for their country.

And I don't think anyone is mad at you or mad at anyone else, we just all come from different nations and "speak" differently. What someone says might be meant totally different to how another understood it.

I have this a lot as I speak a bit "with an open mouth" but its never meant bad and I am sure you didn't mean it bad either.

Naya said:

So, to avoid any possible confusion, perhaps this thread should be moved to Le Café, and the title changed to make clear that it is about athletics.


Le Café was my first option, but I could put this thread there because of my user status or something like that. I also noticed the thread title was properly fixed.

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Yes please. It is about athletics in general, but not about any figure skaters per se.

One thing which is dubious and makes the whole film look like a scam is the allegation that Shobukhova had to pay $450,000 bribe to get to London Olympics. This is just unrealistic. Her career earnings (she is 36) are below $2 million. Even if she won, Russia would have paid her about $100,000 net plus Mercedes - sort of a strange investment. And if she were a true contender for gold with such a passion of our president for sports she would just need to contact FSB and all this mafia would have been shaken. Her motive? God knows. She does not talk to journalists now. But both she and Yulia Rusanova were disqualified by the Russian anti-doping agency some time ago. Revenge? Rusanova was disqualified 1.5 years ago, moved with her husband - a former Russian anti-doping agency employee to Germany. And now she started to talk - good timing, what can I say. The other outrageous allegation is that our athletes take other people's urine to the tests. To do that they should have international officers as accomplices. This allegation is obviously out of question.

Anyway, doping cases stink but one-sided propaganda stinks as well especially in the "Edge" section of a FS forum.

Sorry guys, I just fixed my previous post : I meant that I couldn't post this thread in Le Café because my user status.

Naya said:

Sorry guys, I just fixed my previous post : I meant that I couldn't post this thread in Le Café because my user status.

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You should be able to post in the main folder of the Cafe, just not the Politics subfolder. The Politics folder requires 100 posts. This is so that people with no interest in figure skating but who just want to start a political argument will not spam us.

IMHO the war on drugs is an uphill battle, if not a lost cause. If you are an athlete, taking performance enhancing drugs will enhance your performance. If your performance is enhanced, you will win. If your performance is not enhanced, you will lose. Athletes want to win.

I would rather someone really investigate the nation with the most pharmaceutical prowess and the most wealth and glory to gain due to the size of the economy and the star system. Temptation + ways and means. Of course it would not be easy because the athletes and the enablers know how to stay ahead of the game with their advanced pharmaceutical expertise.

Doping is a cat and mouse game.

alebi said:

But who said doping exists only in Russia? Why some people read what they want to read?

But this article is about Russian athletes, proven and suspended athletes... so why we should talk about different things? Only to make someone feels more comfortable?
Doping scandals exist everywhere, so do we have to start talking about Kenyan, Indian, Jamaican, American, Italian, French, Brasilian, German, Spanish, Chinese etc... athletes? I know it's the right season for a Minestrone, but too many ingredients are hardly digestible...

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:thumbsup: I remember some really famous American athletes..Olympic and world champions..

plushyfan said:

:thumbsup: I remember some really famous American athletes..Olympic and world champions..

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We all remember them but this is a different case. The easiest thing is to label those who think that there is something fishy about the whole situation: "those Russians find conspiracy in everything". And yet, are there other known examples of the same line of events: 1) athletes are caught by the national anti-doping agency and banned 2) they do not appeal internationally instead they flee to another country which happens to be one of the leaders of sanctions movement against the first country 3) in 1.5 years after they were banned the documentary appears with revelations some of which are true (athletes in Russia do use doping, otherwise they would not be banned), some of which are ridiculous (bring other people's urine to competitions, pay half million bucks in bribes, etc.) 4) the documentary with these revelations from little known athletes (I understand if it were Sharapova or Isinbaeva) immediately becomes an international hit?

To be fair, Russian media uses the same tricks against opposition, Ukraine, and some foreign leaders including Belarus' president Lukashenko. Some edited footage from smartphones, some interviews with "experts", prime time channel 1 (or channel 4 which is famous for that sort of things). Quite disgusting but the general population buys it.

I agree that The Edge wasn't the right place to talk about this topic but moving it into Politics really sounds like a "Germany vs Russia" war while doping, as I said in my very first post, is happening everywhere and any country has its strategy. And is a serious matter that need to be discussed frankly, without any possible misinterpretation.

I would add that German journalists seem more motivated to investigate into this problem (maybe because Germany experienced it on its skin for decades) and they revealed another big scandal in the last 2 years, occurring in a Country that maybe doesn't have the same "appeal" than Russia, but that has the same importance, especially in athletics (Kenya). So, please, don't start a discussion about "cold war" or world politics matters because it's not the fair way to discuss a problem extremely important for the sake of professional athletes and amateurs.

Because if the reason to post it was just talk about Germany vs Russia, we can close the thread immediately.

Everyone free to believe whatever they want. I believe it's a lie. I know personally a lot of professional russian athletes, even european and world champions, and I know for sure they're clean. They're just too good of a people. Besides, every country have dirty athletes: USA and Russia are among the leaders. Yes, it's wrong and it's killing the spirit of fair play. But it's a reality, and no need to equate the whole country to couple doped athletes. Especially if their fault isn't proven.