Jason Brown: ‘It paid off’

gravy said:

I think the problem is that Jason's Riverdance was a mature take on the extroverted personality he has. It was playful, but not OTT. His SP this season is (sorry to be brash) hokey and cheesy. He went from Riverdance to that? That's why I think a lot of people are finding fault with Jason.

And BTW, a lot of my friends who don't follow FS loved Josh's SP and thought Jason's was unappealing because it just looked so ostentatious and desperate. It's not really fair to generalize what you think the public will like since it's so vast.

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And "the public" will always be the people we know, won't it?

I thought maybe I was completely insane to love Juke the way I did, so I collared family and friends. They know I like Jason, but they also know I don't like some of his programs. (Take Cotton Eyed Joe ...please!) I didn't tell them which category Juke was in. Josh and Adam were also in the vid fest.

Not *one* thought Juke was "cheesy" or "immature". They weren't necessarily fans of the music, but they found the presentation entertaining and not at all hokey.

Whereas my One D and 5SOS niece, who at least *watched* Jason's skate, left in the middle of Adam's. I asked her why. Well, he's good, I can see that, she said, but he's not trying to skate for me. At least the other guy cared about his performance. In fact, he was the only one who cared as far as I could see.

And so our survey of the great public goes on....

el henry said:

And "the public" will always be the people we know, won't it?

I thought maybe I was completely insane to love Juke the way I did, so I collared family and friends. They know I like Jason, but they also know I don't like some of his programs. (Take Cotton Eyed Joe ...please!) I didn't tell them which category Juke was in. Josh and Adam were also in the vid fest.

Not *one* thought Juke was "cheesy" or "immature". They weren't necessarily fans of the music, but they found the presentation entertaining and not at all hokey.

Whereas my One D and 5SOS niece, who at least *watched* Jason's skate, left in the middle of Adam's. I asked her why. Well, he's good, I can see that, she said, but he's not trying to skate for me. At least the other guy cared about his performance. In fact, he was the only one who cared as far as I could see.

And so our survey of the great public goes on....

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It's not really fair to generalize what you think the public will like since it's so vast.

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Thank you for proving my point.

I was just saying you (or anyone) can't use one small sample and apply it to the entire population. It's too big to make generalizations about what people will like or not like. I shared my experience like you did to show there are more than one view of a program.

gravy said:

I think the problem is that Jason's Riverdance was a mature take on the extroverted personality he has. It was playful, but not OTT. His SP this season is (sorry to be brash) hokey and cheesy. He went from Riverdance to that? That's why I think a lot of people are finding fault with Jason.

And BTW, a lot of my friends who don't follow FS loved Josh's SP and thought Jason's was unappealing because it just looked so ostentatious and desperate. It's not really fair to generalize what you think the public will like since it's so vast.

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It would be nice if people could separate finding fault with Jason's programs and finding fault with Jason, but that seems to be difficult for a lot of people!

I can definitely understand your friends' reaction because I have never been that fond of Juke. He's doing a pretty great job with it now, but some of the moves & facial expressions still seem a bit unnatural to me. I am really curious as to how the program is supposed to stretch him - eg what is out of his comfort zone that they want him to master.

Ideas?

papagena said:

It would be nice if people could separate finding fault with Jason's programs and finding fault with Jason, but that seems to be difficult for a lot of people!

I can definitely understand your friends' reaction because I have never been that fond of Juke. He's doing a pretty great job with it now, but some of the moves & facial expressions still seem a bit unnatural to me. I am really curious as to how the program is supposed to stretch him - eg what is out of his comfort zone that they want him to master.

Ideas?

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I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I don't think the Juke program, in and of itself, was a bad idea. The program looks crazy-difficult, and Jason sells the crap out of it. I felt that it could have benefited from a completely different approach -- I would have preferred Jason to have taken a too-cool-for-school, Rat Pack-style take on it -- more like his Prince program. Instead, he chose a more joyous, fun interpretation that could be taken as a bit cheerleader-y and youthful. (Former cheerleader here, so I don't say that lightly!). I feel like the way they're presenting it makes him seem younger than he is.

I think his LP is stunning, and very mature. But as other people have mentioned, I don't think his costume matches that, nor does it highlight his beautiful lines. I think the general idea of his costume, but more tailored (and with darker pants that match his boots) would help his cause tremendously. It sounds so superficial, but these things do matter to the judges, whether they realize it or not. He works so hard on the PCS side of things, so I hate to see him choose costumes that hide his best attributes on that front. The longer and leaner he can look, the better; a block-y top and boot covers that chop his lines in half work against all the effort he's put in to establishing beautiful lines, extension, and toepoint.

Scovies, do you think that Jason chose the joyous interpretation or Kori & Rohene did?

It just they've all talked about how these programs are supposed to push him out if his comfort zone. The Tristan is pretty different than anything he's done, but Juke is kind of a variation on Prince. So what's out of his comfort zone in Juke - the steps and/ or the movements? The character? The story ? The music? All of the above ?

papagena said:

Scovies, do you think that Jason chose the joyous interpretation or Kori & Rohene did?

It just they've all talked about how these programs are supposed to push him out if his comfort zone. The Tristan is pretty different than anything he's done, but Juke is kind of a variation on Prince. So what's out of his comfort zone in Juke - the steps and/ or the movements? The character? The story ? The music? All of the above ?

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papagena, I would like to know why you see Juke as a variation on Prince. The music is completely different: Prince's 80s artsy rock vibe versus 40's/50s Chicago blues. Certainly Tristan & Iseult, for example, as (it seems to me) a variation of Totentanz, is closer to the classical music Jason has skated to before than Prince to Little Walter. Do you see the steps or the choroegraphy as the same? I thought Prince was more deliberate and dramatic than Juke, but that is impression, not a comparison..

FWIW, if you look at what the public is watching, the Youtube hits for Juke are now at about 30.000. That is a lot more than T&I and a bit more than Josh's short & Adam's long (but he's catching up!), A lot of those are probably from people who remember Riverdance and want to "check out what that kid is up to now". I have to say I was very surprised to see Juke so much more popular than T&I, but that's because I prefer T&I and obviously my taste is impeccable

el henry said:

Whereas my One D and 5SOS niece, who at least *watched* Jason's skate, left in the middle of Adam's. I asked her why. Well, he's good, I can see that, she said, but he's not trying to skate for me. At least the other guy cared about his performance. In fact, he was the only one who cared as far as I could see.

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Funny, because I thought this a bit. Not so much in the long, but in the short it seems almost like Adam's skating at the judges. He looks so defiant and angry and bold and every time he looks in their direction he has this amazing expression that is as though he had a big eff off written across his face. It's difficult to describe! But for sure if there was a giving-face deduction he'd have been at about -3. I loved it! I literally fistpumped when I saw that

El Henry - that is a great question. I have a super-busy day but will be back later to respon. I will havevto think about it a little!

TMC said:

FWIW, if you look at what the public is watching, the Youtube hits for Juke are now at about 30.000. That is a lot more than T&I and a bit more than Josh's short & Adam's long (but he's catching up!), A lot of those are probably from people who remember Riverdance and want to "check out what that kid is up to now". I have to say I was very surprised to see Juke so much more popular than T&I, but that's because I prefer T&I and obviously my taste is impeccable

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Thanks for bringing that up, I'm just as surprised about Juke beating T&I, given that I really love T&I. I'm still one of those few people that actually like Juke. I can appreciate the difficulty and Jason's unbounded energy and joy while selling the heck out of it make me smile.

I also agree that people are taking qualities Jason already proofed to have last season for granted, and that's why we have so much more complaints this season than last. Probably another point that changes "peoples" perception of Jason is that his role within the american team has changed. Last year, he was the upcoming surprise that people didn't expect, while the "leader" was Jeremy Abbott. And with that, I mainly think the guy people thought would bring home the 3 spots for the next worlds. This season, Jason is the frontrunner - which equals: it's mainly Jason's responsibility to keep the 3 spots. At least to me it looks like a rather big part if the fans are very concerned with the question of the 3 spots. And that his why his missing quad is so much more of a problem now - his BV is a good part lower than that of many other guys, and people get anxious and mainly let it out on him. It's not fair, since the main point still his: he's the best man America has right now, and IMO he was the best guy at nationals. So he deserves the sae amount of praise and respect he got last season.

https://rockhall.com/inductees/little-walter/bio/

It is worth knowing why Juke and Little Walter are impressive.

Harmonica virtuoso Little Walter was a key contributor to bluesman Muddy Waters’ music through most of the 1950s. Both as a sideman and bandleader, Little Walter revolutionized the sound of blues harmonica through amplification, clasping a mike to the harp as he played. While he may not have been the first bluesman to play amplified harmonica, he explored its possibilities most fully. He was inarguably a musical genius. Little Walter could make an inexpensive, portable “mouth organ” moan and roar like a full horn section or produce an unearthly, haunting wail. Moreover, he was a tasteful and sympathetic accompanist. As journalist Robert Palmer wrote of Little Walter’s contribution to Waters’ music, “The harp lines wrapped themselves around Muddy’s vocals, now chording like an organ, now filling melodically like a horn - See more at: https://rockhall.com/inductees/little-walter/bio/#sthash.nwqeHzXi.dpuf

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"Juke" is a harmonica instrumental recorded by then 22-year-old Chicago bluesman Little Walter Jacobs in 1952. Although Little Walter had been recording sporadically for small Chicago labels over the previous five years, and had appeared on Muddy Waters' records for the Chess label since 1950, "Juke" was Little Walter's first hit, and it was the most important of his career. Due to the influence of Little Walter on blues harmonica, "Juke" is now considered a blues harmonica standard.

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Juke is a young man's song; in that sense, good for Jason, but Blues is not a genre that Jason has done before. Jason is not a blues kind of guy. He is irrepressibly happy. In fact, if you wanted a perfect song to characterize Jason, it would be Pharrell Williams' Happy. Imo he has not gotten to the soul of blues yet, and he will have to stretch a bit more to do justice to Juke.

As to Tristan & Isolde, it is a very literal narrative, poison drinking and the whole 9 yards. Jason has not done a story telling program before, AFAIR, so that's how T&I is stretching his range. It is really quite successful already, I would say based on seeing it live at US Nationals from the same general perspective as the tech panel.
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Have to agree with Doris. Riverdance was iconic....there won't be another program that will have the same effect. I thought T&I was a great stretch for Jason. Even though he is, as Doris says, irrepressibly happy, it behooves him to take on more dramatic roles as he ages. "Happy" reminds me of Stars on Ice and Ryan Bradley skating with local youngsters....another guy who is happy all the time! My only complaint about T&I was the costume. He could have skated that program in plain pants and a shirt with billowy sleeves and it would have been more believable. I always turn to my non-figure skating fans in cases like this and solicit their opinion. Jason got thumbs up from everybody in my circle of friends!!!!

I will confess to not being a fan of T&I from a musical standpoint. The dies irae has been used in so many compositions by so many great composers and Maxime Rodriguez's composition is simply not at the same level. Rohene did a good job of creating a solid program out of it though, which is what counts when it comes to competition.

dorispulaski said:

Juke is a young man's song; in that sense, good for Jason, but Blues is not a genre that Jason has done before. Jason is not a blues kind of guy. He is irrepressibly happy. In fact, if you wanted a perfect song to characterize Jason, it would be Pharrell Williams' Happy. Imo he has not gotten to the soul of blues yet, and he will have to stretch a bit more to do justice to Juke.

As to Tristan & Isolde, it is a very literal narrative, poison drinking and the whole 9 yards. Jason has not done a story telling program before, AFAIR, so that's how T&I is stretching his range. It is really quite successful already, I would say based on seeing it live at US Nationals from the same general perspective as the tech panel.
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Yes, Doris, this is exactly it for me. There's a certain amount of swagger (and soul, as you pointed out) with skating/dancing to blues music and it's not quite there yet. I think he has the basic mechanics of skating to it, basically mastering the beat and being able to skate with the music, which I think is tough because while blues is a standard 4/4 time signature, the melody has lots of quick notes and shuffling with in a single beat and it's easy to get off track. So he deserves credit for that.

The program is well-choreographed too, with the elements timed really well to the music. So basically, the foundation is there, just needs a bit more soul.

Also blues was known as the devil's music and let's face it, Jason is not exactly the devil type.

As for T&I, I think that program is coming along. The priority there, IMO, will need to be to hit that second 3A. It's clear he can do a 3A -- 2/3 of his 3As at nationals had nice height, good speed in and out and pretty good +GOE (Not Hanyu-level, but for him, it's pretty good), but for some reason he slows down considerably before the second one, hence the two-foots and the UR at nationals. There is probably a case to move it up---but the fact they haven't moved it tells me that he's perfectly capable of doing it in practice, but just has a mental block in competition.

salchowx4 said:

I will confess to not being a fan of T&I from a musical standpoint. The dies irae has been used in so many compositions by so many great composers and Maxime Rodriguez's composition is simply not at the same level. Rohene did a good job of creating a solid program out of it though, which is what counts when it comes to competition.

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My husband often says to me that he likes Jason's skating in spite of the music he skates to. In fact he hates Riverdance as music, but he couldn't praise Jason enough for how he skated to that music. It's an interesting distinction, i.e. the music doesn't carry him; it's the other way around.

If Adam Rippon can fix his 3axel which he stalked and telegraphed worse then Jason does then it can be improved thought he might need outside help to get it better.

Adam has always been one of my favorite skaters. And I HOPE his silver medal will give him confidence going forth. However, he has a hard time putting two programs together and isn't very consistent. His Nats skate this year was wonderful. I only hope he can do it again. I don't know what the answer is for this very talented young man.