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Yes, I know about extra GOE for this and that, but, like you, I find Liza underscored vs. Elena.
Daleman confident as Worlds loom closer
- Thread starter gsk8
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Top six may not quite be possible at this time, with the three Russians, at least two Americans (maybe three since Polina won 4CC) and at least one or two Japanese ladies. That could feasibly make up the top 8 right there. However, it's not out of the question for 9th or 10th for Gabby, which is a perfectly respectable finish and higher than last year's performance.
Good luck Gabby!
Good luck Gabby!
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Not to be overly argumentative but I don't believe that the intent of CoP is to compare jumps from skater to skater. That may seem frustrating to some people but the way I read the GOE guidelines for rewarding points is that there is no correlation between how Liza's jumps are executed vs how Elena's are when adding up the scores. So I guess what I mean is while Liza's are bigger and her technique is superior currently to any of the ladies......there are still other ways to rack up points for skaters who's jumps may seem not as nice thru harder entries/tano's/ difficult exit/flow/location in program etc.... I honestly think a simple thing like the placement of a jump like after a difficult StSeq or following a well choreographed moment can butter up a judge or even worse detract from GOE given if it isn't pleasing. It may not be ideal but I think it's how the system is set up.
Heck....some skaters execute spins that are far superior to spins performed by other skaters and score only about a .5 point difference. See Caroline's final spin vs Yulia last season in the FS at WC's. Same thing IMO.
As for Daleman.......she is a heck of a jumper when she is on but I get the feeling she is being a bit overly intense and it's holding her back a bit. I'd rather see her perform a more understated less jump focused program. If her an Alaine could just morph into one skater I'd be 100% in
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Even if the intent is not to compare skaters, the rules should still be applied consistently, no? Otherwise why bother having a system. You might as well simply tell judges to give high marks to their favorites. That's not a sport - that's a popularity contest. And the intent of the COP was to have more objective criteria. So these should be followed. Consistently. Otherwise the criteria become a joke.
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I do agree that consistency is necassary. I am not sure if my scenarios above defy a consistent approach or not but I think we've veered off course from this threads intent enough. I'm sure a jump GOE/scoring thread will open up soon enough and I'll be all over it because I love discussing this stuff. Until then.... 
Top six may not quite be possible at this time, with the three Russians, at least two Americans (maybe three since Polina won 4CC) and at least one or two Japanese ladies. That could feasibly make up the top 8 right there. However, it's not out of the question for 9th or 10th for Gabby, which is a perfectly respectable finish and higher than last year's performance.
Good luck Gabby!
I agree with anyanka. I think with the current crop of Russian, American, and various other skaters (Japanese, Chinese, Korean) it will be very difficult for her to get top 6. She was only 7th at 4CC, so add in the Russians and others it will be difficult. Her goal should be top 10 and hope Alaine does well enough to keep two spots in 2016
Just spent some time going back and watching some of Daleman's long programs from this year and noticed that she keeps changing the program elements. She had the Loop in at first then she took it out - then it was back in in place of the 3 Flip. One event she does a 2T at the end of a 2A - then the next event she puts in on the end of a 3S.
Is this really a good way to become consistent with a program?
And could this be why she had some minor problems with some of her jumping passes - not being sure what she was doing and when? Wouldn't it kind of throw off some of your footwork and set-up into the jumps.
Is this really a good way to become consistent with a program?
And could this be why she had some minor problems with some of her jumping passes - not being sure what she was doing and when? Wouldn't it kind of throw off some of your footwork and set-up into the jumps.
Interesting observation. That could definitely lead to some confusion, plus the muscle memory wouldn't be as entrenched
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I think she has a shot at being 9th or 10th which is great at her young age. She reminds me of a young Silvia Fontana who had a similar wrap on some of her jumps. She's gorgeous like Silvia and she performs like her as well.
I hope they keep the pressure off of her as she continues to develop. I remember how much pressure that some people used to put on Jennifer Robinson to secure spots for other skaters. I remember reporters asking her about it as if it were her job.
Skaters feel enough pressure from themselves as they want their hard work to pay off. We all know how many sacrifices an elite athlete must make and the last thing they need is the extra pressure of securing spots for others.
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I have gone back and looked at Daleman's performances as well. At her last 3 competitions her PPC were:
NHK
3Lz+2T+2Lo+C, StSq, 2A+3T+C, FCSp, 3Lz x, 3S x, 3F !, 2A x, 3S+2T+C x, LSp, ChSqB, CCoSp3p
Nationals
3Lz+2T+2Lo+C, StSq, 2A+3T+C, FCSp, 3Lz x, 3S x, 2F !, 2A x, 3S+2T+C x, LSp, ChSqB, CCoSp3p
4CC
3Lz+2T+2Lo+C, StSq, 2A+3T+C, FCSp, 2Lz x, 3S x, 3Lo, 2A x, 3S+2T+C x, LSp, ChSqB, CCoSp3p
To me they look the same except she replaced the F with the Lo, as she was getting edge calls on it. Smart in my opinion.
On another note, I think if Daleman can go clean in the SP she can score about 62 to 64 pts and a clean FS with all her triples landed should be (with fair PCS's) about 120 (considering she scored 111 at 4CC with a 2Lz). Combined this would be a score over 180 and should be able to place her in the top 10, which I agree with mrrice, that would be great for her.
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I am sure Canada would be thrilled if she or Chartrand hold on to two spots which is still not a guarantee. If you go by last year's results and this year - Canada is on the bubble just like their men.
No---If she had landed a 3z at 4CC, her SP score would have been about 60-61. Her TES would have gone up, but not necessarily her PCS, since the double did not affect her performance in any way. She did land a 3z in the SP at NHK, and got !, scoring 5.00, so her 4CC score would have gone up to 60.25, which would have put her in 6th place after the SP. Landing a 3z in the FS would give her another 5 points, putting her in 4th place overall---at 4CC.
But her jump layout in the FS is just not competitive with the top ladies at Worlds (one flip, one lutz, all the rest low-value triples)---177 points would be about 14th on the Seasons Best list, and that is still very theoretical, as in reality Gabrielle's actual SB is the 167.09 she earned at 4CC, and that is 28th on the SB list. She has yet to skate a clean SP and a clean FS.
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Sorry chuckem, because I respect your posts so much,, but according to my math if Daleman does her 3z in her short clean, which is in the second half, would have a base value of 6.60, with no bonuses would have given her a score of 61.85 (not including any +GOE's). This would have placed her 3rd after the SP ahead of Hongo who scored 61.28, but also got a PCS boost of 27.97 compared to Daleman who only got a PC score of 26.15. We have seen what clean skates can do for skaters who execute all their jumps. Polina in the GP had PCSs comparable to Daleman, but at 4CC, out scored her by over 7 marks in PCSs. I feel watching both of them that Daleman's PCSs should be on par with at least Hongo's.; but we'll see. Factoring all this in, as I said earlier a clean Daleman should be able to score in the 180's and place her in the top 10.
But Daleman doesn't land a clean lutz---she flutzes, and got a ! at NHK for it, so she won't get 6.6 points for a 3z!
And you can't 'decide' that Daleman should have PCS comparable to Hongo, who has had results better than Daleman this season: Hongo was ranked 7th overall in the GP season with a gold medal at CoR, while Daleman was 17th.
Sure Daleman could score higher if she skated clean and didn't flutz. And if Gracie Gold could conquer her nerves and didn't lip, she could beat the Russians and be world champ! The trick is for the skater to DO it, not for fans to just talk about the skater doing it.
And you can't 'decide' that Daleman should have PCS comparable to Hongo, who has had results better than Daleman this season: Hongo was ranked 7th overall in the GP season with a gold medal at CoR, while Daleman was 17th.
Sure Daleman could score higher if she skated clean and didn't flutz. And if Gracie Gold could conquer her nerves and didn't lip, she could beat the Russians and be world champ! The trick is for the skater to DO it, not for fans to just talk about the skater doing it.
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I'm so excited to see this young lady develop as she has so many great qualities. I guess it's great that we're all talking about her. I certainly remember a young Michelle Kwan being raked over these same coals and she turned out to be a legend.
This young skater is talented, beautiful, and performs like a star. At this point I'd rather focus on her many strengths and let her coaches worry about her weaknesses.
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So true. Looking at the results and what I thought was possible, it is entirely possible Canada is down to one lady and Osmond must watch on the sidelines. She needs to skate clean which is unlikely and hope for some breaks. Or that Chartrand does really well. I wonder if she knows that two spots for Canada rests on her small shoulders? Oh the pressure?
