Why skating in the U.S. is strugglng | Golden Skate

Why skating in the U.S. is strugglng

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
Why is it that even though the U.S. has the reigning OGM there and that we have deep fields in the senior and junior ranks, that somehow Ice Dance success doesn't count?

And please do not tell me it's because the coaches are all Russian ex-pats.

:bang:
 
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silverfoxes

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Feb 16, 2014
I'm actually amazed that Rolling Stone(!) would publish an article about skating, let alone one that is quite accurate, imo - although I would love it if I never had to see another lame "Cold War" reference in skating journalism for the rest of my life.

Ok, so they didn't talk about ice dance but it's clearly focused on the ladies' discipline...no mention of men or pairs, either. The obsession with the ladies' discipline in the US at the expense of the others is a different issue, though certainly related.
 

gravy

¿No ven quién soy yo?
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Mar 28, 2014
If the Soviet system was so good, why weren't any of the USSR republics producing any singles' gold medalists [save for very few compared to the US] until after 1991 (after the USSR was dissolved)?

And even then, Soviet-born lady champions were so few in number (Baiul [Ukranian], Slutskaya, & Butyrskaya). It was only the latter 2 keeping the ladies' discipline alive in Russia until the government began funding skating to have good results in Sochi.
 
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sses1

On the Ice
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Oct 5, 2014
This is a sport after all and there's bound to be peaks and valleys. After dominating for so long maybe it just isn't in the cards for U.S ladies to win worlds? Just look at Russia's men situation, after Plushy and Vags, we have Kovtun. . .
 

ice coverage

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Jammers

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Everyone keeps bragging about Russia but most likely they won't be getting any medals from anyone but their Ladies. No Pairs medal or Ice Dancing where they have become mediocre and the Men have been less then mediocre for a decade so not everything is working in Russia either at least in Men's and Ice Dancing.
 

Globetrotter

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Jan 17, 2014
If the Soviet system was so good, why weren't any of the USSR republics producing any singles' gold medalists [save for very few compared to the US] until after 1991 (after the USSR was dissolved)?

And even then, Soviet-born lady champions were so few in number (Baiul [Ukranian], Slutskaya, & Butyrskaya). It was only the latter 2 keeping the ladies' discipline alive in Russia until the government began funding skating to have good results in Sochi.

The Soviet years were focused on pairs skating and not so much on singles. It was a similar strategy that has been adopted by the Chinese federation. Both the USSR and China had strong traditions in gymnastics and I believe that pairs skating had the big throws, athletic lifts and coordinated moves that appealed to that.
 

silverfoxes

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Feb 16, 2014
Everyone keeps bragging about Russia but most likely they won't be getting any medals from anyone but their Ladies. No Pairs medal or Ice Dancing where they have become mediocre and the Men have been less then mediocre for a decade so not everything is working in Russia either at least in Men's and Ice Dancing.

Russian men "less then (sic) mediocre" compared to whom? The US? :laugh: Plushenko was mediocre for the past decade?
 

Barb

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Oct 13, 2009
Everyone keeps bragging about Russia but most likely they won't be getting any medals from anyone but their Ladies. No Pairs medal or Ice Dancing where they have become mediocre and the Men have been less then mediocre for a decade so not everything is working in Russia either at least in Men's and Ice Dancing.

The difference is Russia support their good skaters, when they were dominating ice dance they were very proud about their dancers, people were fascinated with Plushenko and Yagudin, same for pairs. Now with the success of the girls (Adelina, Yulia last year and Liza now) Russia is not crying about the lost of figure skating because ice dancing, pairs or men are not dominating, they are happy with the girls. The US in the contrary is women or nothing, it is not important Evan gold medal or the excellent results in ice dance. It is weird because I would to think about Russia like a more conservative country but they can appreciate the beauty and athleticism of figure skating without the preconception that I think in the US have, thinking about figure skating as a sport only for women.
 

Globetrotter

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This is a sport after all and there's bound to be peaks and valleys. After dominating for so long maybe it just isn't in the cards for U.S ladies to win worlds? Just look at Russia's men situation, after Plushy and Vags, we have Kovtun. . .

Let us just look back to the past glorious US champions. Off my head, the more recent champs would be Yamaguchi, Harding, Kerrigan, Michelle Kwan, Tara and perhaps Cohen and Meissner to a lesser extent. I think it suffices to say that Yamaguchi and Kwan probably had some of the toughest competitive mindset. They were not the most talented in their era but they certainly competed well and their competitive nerves gave them the win where other more talented skaters faltered on the big stage. Tara and Harding probably love the sport more than others and they were fearless. They kept up the technical side of figure skating.

The post 2006 era of US female skaters certainly were not wanting in talent. I think what they lacked was what the article described, the ability to fight and stay mentally tough in competition. Just take the ladies SP in Shanghai. Lena Radio skated to the second position despite running a fever > 38 deg. Yeah, we were wondering why she didn't seem to have her usual bright spark only to learn later that she fought through her fever. Anna Pogo had a hard fall on her 3R, but she bounced up and fought through the pain and disorientation and never actually gave up on her programme. As for the US ladies, Wagner was too cautious and she visibly ran out of mental steam after falling her first combo jump and her usual fire in performance simply went out. She messed up her remaining two jumps and was slow, the fight all gone. Gold also simply crumbled after a huge performance from Liza Tuks who threw down the 3A gauntlet. I suspect that when Liza Tuks landed a couple of 3A in the warm up prior to the final group start, she probably spooked most people out with the exception of maybe Lena Radio. A skater can be the most talented, but it is a different ball game when it comes to competition. I think this is where the current crop is not rising to the occasion and that the Russians have gotten to a pat as they are basically in competition mode since they were kids.
 

concorde

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Jul 29, 2013
I tend to agree with the article.

The American ladies are not "hungry" enough - with Ashley as the exception. Polina might be. Gracie certainly is not.
 

Jammers

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Russian men "less then (sic) mediocre" compared to whom? The US? :laugh: Plushenko was mediocre for the past decade?

Plushenko hardly skated in the last decade. I think Russian Men have won 1 medal at Worlds since 2005 so yes they have been mediocre.
 

Jammers

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Sadly our most talented skater is our biggest headcase. Polina is tougher minded but lacks Gracie's speed and power and telegraphs her jumps.
 

Miss Ice

Let the sky fall~
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IMHO, the USFSA should be investing in the young and coming skaters than piling tons of money into headcases like Wagner and Gold. I think calling Wagner "the most talented skater" is also ridiculous, there is a lot of young talent that shows a lot more promise. Personally I would be putting more money into improving coaches and conditions for skaters like Polina Edmunds, Karen Chen, Bradie Tennell, maybe even some of the Novice/up coming Junior skaters who have a lot of promise.
 

andromache

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Mar 23, 2014
I agree with the article in its discussion of the lack of competition among US skaters. Russian ladies have to compete against each other to earn it, and thus earn that competitive mindset or fail. Obviously the way that figure skating is regulated in Russia will not work for the US because of their very different systems of funding and government, but perhaps US figure skating could borrow some ideas from the US gymnastics to help make our ladies better at competition.
 

sabinfire

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IMHO, the USFSA should be investing in the young and coming skaters than piling tons of money into headcases like Wagner and Gold. I think calling Wagner "the most talented skater" is also ridiculous, there is a lot of young talent that shows a lot more promise.

Yeah, I don't get this either. The USA needs to begin investing in young talent and plan for the future. Wagner is a bit of wild-card, and sorry for fans of hers, but this season was probably her best shot at having her moment of glory -- I can't imagine the next few seasons will be favorable for her, or that she'll be around (and in top form) for PyeongChang 2018... you know, the only time when the USA pays any attention to figure skating? :rolleye:
 

Globetrotter

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Jan 17, 2014
IMHO, the USFSA should be investing in the young and coming skaters than piling tons of money into headcases like Wagner and Gold. I think calling Wagner "the most talented skater" is also ridiculous, there is a lot of young talent that shows a lot more promise. Personally I would be putting more money into improving coaches and conditions for skaters like Polina Edmunds, Karen Chen, Bradie Tennell, maybe even some of the Novice/up coming Junior skaters who have a lot of promise.

Certainly some additional support coming from federal agencies or state funds will help. However, it still does not solve the underlying issue, that the US ladies somehow do not get the level of competitive exposure like the Russians. I personally think that the Russian system is brutal - for every Liza Tuks and Yulia Lip, perhaps 10 other girls would have fallen by the wayside. I am ambivalent about how this will work out but I think the principle is that exposure and "practice" in competitions will help build up the mental toughness.

I don't think the original post was referring to Wagner as the most talented, if I didn't read it wrong, I think it was referring to Gold. Gold certainly has a lot of natural talents but you got to really wonder that she is such a :bang:. Wagner is probably the least naturally skilled in her group but she more than makes up for it by being hungrier and working harder than others. Imagine if Gold has the sort of fight like say Lena Radionova - the sky would be the limit.
 

Figure 8's

On the Ice
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Jan 10, 2014
Totally agree with this article. I have always faulted the USFSA for hanging on to and promoting certain skaters while younger and more talented skaters are never given an opportunity. I believe that if the USFA wants to compete with the World they need to start sending a younger skater every year to major international competitions. They need to get the experience and exposure.
Figure Skating needs to be like any other sport. If you don't succeed after getting so many opportunities, it is time to move on.
 
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