2016 Worlds Multiple Spots

GF2445 · Mar 30, 2015

QUOTAS!!!

Mens
Spain- 3
United States- 3
Japan- 2
Kazakhstan- 2
Canada- 2
Uzbekistan- 2
Russia- 2
China- 2
France- 2

Ladies
Russia- 3
Japan- 3
United States- 3
China- 2
France- 2
Canada- 2
South Korea- 2

Pairs
Canada- 3
China- 3
Russia- 3
United States- 2
France- 2
Italy- 2

Ice Dance
France- 3
United States- 3
Canada- 3
Italy- 2
Russia- 2

Other losses- Germany in pairs down to 1, Great Britain down to 1 in Ice Dance, Czech Republic down to 1 in men's
I did originally put in the ranking placements but i decided to remove them because i was repremanded for misinformation.

russell30 · Mar 30, 2015

Thanks!

Big Loss For Japan in Mens Singles (probably be Hanyu and Uno next year?)

Big Loss for Russia in Ice Dance.

On a plus side , Great for US though in both Mens and Ladies singles as there is so much depth there!

GF2445 · Mar 30, 2015

russell30 said:
Thanks!

On a plus side , Great for US though in both Mens and Ladies singles as there is so much depth there!

Try telling that to Phil Hersh :disapp: who is a negative nancy aboutnthe state of US skatingand writes in a senile tone.

ice coverage · Mar 30, 2015

GF2445 said:
QUOTAS!!!
3 spots for Champion nation or the sum of the rankings of the 2 skaters from that nation equals 13 or less)
2 spots if 1 skater has a top 12 finish or the sum of the rankings of the 2 skaters from that nation equals 28 or less)

You are MISTAKEN about the rules.

Example:

INCORRECT to say, "3 spots for Champion nation."
The correct rule is that IF a country had only ONE entry in a discipline, placement in the top two would earn three spots.
So the rule applies only to Spain's win in the men's discipline, and France's in ice dance.

[ETA, to clarify my previous sentence:
What I mean is that only Spain's win in the men's discipline and France's in ice dance earned three spots. Russia's win in ladies and Canada's win in pairs were not (in and of themselves) sufficient to earn their three spots. Russia and Canada also needed Radionova's and Seguin/Bilodeaus's placements.
And if Denis Ten had placed second, he would have earned three spots for Kazakhstan.]

And iirc, IF a country had only one entry in a discipline, placement in the top TEN would earn two spots.

ETA, I have verified that my previous sentence is correct. http://static.isu.org/media/166717/...and-technical-rules-sandp-and-id_14-09-16.pdf

GF2445 · Mar 30, 2015

golden411 said:
You are MISTAKEN about the rules.

Example:

INCORRECT to say, "3 spots for Champion nation."
The correct rule is that IF a country had only ONE entry in a discipline, placement in the top two would earn three spots.
So the rule applies only to Spain's win in the men's discipline, and France's in ice dance.

And iirc, IF a country had only one entry in a discipline, placement in the top TEN would earn two spots.

You know what. There are just too many rules
:hijacked:

#ragequit #whatswiththered?

ice coverage · Mar 30, 2015

GF2445 said:
You know what. There are just too many rules

#ragequit #whatswiththered?

#whatswiththered is that you are spreading misinformation, although your intentions were good.

I agree that the rules are complicated -- that is why it is important (IMO) not to confuse others by getting them wrong.

If you have any interest in the correct rules, see p. 25 of this 145-page PDF.

http://static.isu.org/media/166717/...and-technical-rules-sandp-and-id_14-09-16.pdf

I have taken the trouble to look them up b/c I wanted to double-check what I said in my post above about one entry and the top ten.
I now have verified that if a country had only one entry in a discipline, placement in the top ten would earn two spots.

tulosai · Mar 30, 2015

Also if a country only has one entry isn't a top 2 finish enough for 3 spots? Or has this changed? (Sorry on kindle and cannot easily go to link)

ice coverage · Mar 30, 2015

GF2445 said:
QUOTAS!!!
3 spots for Champion nation or the sum of the rankings of the 2 skaters from that nation equals 13 or less)
2 spots if 1 skater has a top 12 finish or the sum of the rankings of the 2 skaters from that nation equals 28 or less)

Mens
Canada- 2 (5th+22nd=27)

Again, in the interest of nipping confusion in the bud:

The Canadian men did not get 27 placement points. They got 21.

Nam Nguyen placed fifth and got 5 placement points.
Jeremy Ten placed 22nd and got 16 placement points.

Anyone who qualifies for the FS or FD will get no more than 16 placement points. (In other words, those who place 17th, 18th, etc., will get 16 placement points.)
Those who do not qualify for the FS or FD get 18 placement points.
Yes, these additional details are complicated [ETA: and even my previous two sentences are an oversimplification! :yes:], but within the last week, I saw several instances of confusion in GS threads over what would be necessary for hanging onto two spots.

tulosai said:
Also if a country only has one entry isn't a top 2 finish enough for 3 spots? Or has this changed? (Sorry on kindle and cannot easily go to link)

:agree: Yes, that is part of what I was saying in my previous post.

GF2445 · Mar 30, 2015

Can we now discuss the placements and not my errors.

ice coverage · Mar 30, 2015

GF2445 said:
QUOTAS!!!

Mens
Spain- 3
United States- 3
Japan- 2
Kazakhstan- 2
Canada- 2
Uzbekistan- 2
Russia- 2
China- 2

France also gets 2 spots in Men's. (Amodio 9th + Besseghier 18th = 25 placement points.)

p.s. Thank you for revamping the OP.

moriel · Mar 30, 2015

Actually think that all spots russia got are... good.
Like, honestly, nothing to do with 3 spots for men, 2 are more than enough for what russia has now
and having just 2 spots for dance may create some healthy pressure/ competition on russian pairs, as the promising ones seem to have lots of work ahead.

Sandpiper · Mar 30, 2015

The results once again make me question the system of determining spots. It's pretty wasteful that Spain will have one, if not two, unused spots, while several Japanese men are sitting at home thinking, "I could've been a contender..."

moriel said:
Actually think that all spots russia got are... good.
Like, honestly, nothing to do with 3 spots for men, 2 are more than enough for what russia has now
and having just 2 spots for dance may create some healthy pressure/ competition on russian pairs, as the promising ones seem to have lots of work ahead.

While I agree that Russia kinda doesn't deserve more... A part of me wanted them to get three spots, since it would've given young skaters the experience (Adian Pitkeev or Alexander Petrov in men, one of S/B, Y/M, I/Z, S/K, M/K ect. that would be left off the Worlds team next year).

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 30, 2015

golden411 said:
France also gets 2 spots in Men's. (Amodio 9th + Besseghier 18th = 25 placement points.)

p.s. Thank you for revamping the OP.

Besseghier had no effect on France getting 2 spots. Amodio placing 9th got 2 spots regardless of whether Besseghier was even competing. Only Besseghier placing 3rd or better (which would have dropped Amodio to 10th) would have gotten 3 spots, otherwise France was getting two.

Kudos to Amodio for maintaining them. Chafik did the same last year, so I guess he returned the favour.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 30, 2015

Also Phil Hersh is an idiot. The US maintained 3 spots in men, ladies and dance, and easily maintained 2 pairs spots.

11/12 possible Worlds entries for Boston next year... USFSA must be thrilled.

One silver medal and two 4ths in singles isn't too shabby.

ice coverage · Mar 30, 2015

delete

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 30, 2015

Sandpiper said:
The results once again make me question the system of determining spots. It's pretty wasteful that Spain will have one, if not two, unused spots, while several Japanese men are sitting at home thinking, "I could've been a contender..."

That's the JSF's fault. As far as I know, any unused spots become open to other ISU countries? So that's at least a silver lining. Kazakhstan getting 3 spots would have also had the same issue. It's a bit of an odd rule.

Sandpiper · Mar 30, 2015

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
That's the JSF's fault. As far as I know, any unused spots become open to other ISU countries? So that's at least a silver lining. Kazakhstan getting 3 spots would have also had the same issue. It's a bit of an odd rule.

Japan is stuck with two spots even if the unused spots aren't filled. There'll just be fewer skaters at Worlds. Imo, better to have an inconsistent Japanese man there than to have no one there.

Not sure if Shoma even wanted to go to senior Worlds. Murakami isn't any more consistent than Mura or Kozuka. Other than trying harder to keep Machida, I'm not sure if anything else could've been enough (could they have WD Mura after news got out that he was injured?)

ice coverage · Mar 30, 2015

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Besseghier had no effect on France getting 2 spots. Amodio placing 9th got 2 spots regardless of whether Besseghier was even competing. ...

I see what you are saying -- i.e., what you are able to say with the benefit of hindsight: that the numbers happened to work out this way for France in this instance.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Only Besseghier placing 3rd or better (which would have dropped Amodio to 10th) would have gotten 3 spots, otherwise France was getting two.

But I disagree with your assumption that "otherwise France was getting two."

IMO, it is not unthinkable that at a different event, four skaters (such as Yan, Mura, Voronov, Brezina, Farris, Kozuka) who placed below Amodio in Shanghai could have placed above him.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2015/CAT001RS.HTM

And then Besseghier's placement could have made the difference btwn two spots for France vs. only one.

ETA:

And if Besseghier had not been competing at all at Worlds, then the pressure would have been on Amodio to place in the top ten. If he had scored 3.5 points lower, and Farris had scored 3.5 points higher, then France would have earned only one spot for next yr.

chuckm · Mar 31, 2015

You have to wonder if France will even send 3 dance teams to Worlds 2016. What teams would they send? The only team they sent to the GP this season was Papadakis / Cizeron.

peg · Mar 31, 2015

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Besseghier had no effect on France getting 2 spots. Amodio placing 9th got 2 spots regardless of whether Besseghier was even competing. Only Besseghier placing 3rd or better (which would have dropped Amodio to 10th) would have gotten 3 spots, otherwise France was getting two.

Actually, if a country has two skaters entered, both of their placements are counted, and must not exceed 28 in order to retain 2 spots. So if one of those skaters makes the FS, the other can be no worse than 12th to maintain those two spots, but if one of the skaters fails to make the FS, then the second must be no worse than 10th in order to add up t 28 or less.

So in the case of France, Chafik received 16 points for making the FS, and Amodio had 9, for a total of 25.

Canada, for example, had 5 (Nam) plus 16 (Jeremy qualifying for the FS) for a total of 21

Yes, in effect, if one skater makes top 10, it doesn't really matter how the other guy places given that everyone gets at most 18 points. But there is already so much confusion about this rule, and simply saying "Amodio placing 9th would have got two spots regardless of whether Chafik was even competing gives the impression that only the top placement is counted, which is not the case.

2016 Worlds Multiple Spots

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