ISU protocol for on ice medical emergencies in figure skating

ice coverage · Jun 30, 2015

ISU Communication No. 1951
On Ice Medical Emergencies in Figure Skating Protocol

http://www.isu.org/en/news-and-even...-on-ice-medical-emergencies-in-figure-skating (Jun 30)

The link above leads to the two-page communication.

The first page lists twelve steps to be taken.
The last step:

12. The Physician who conducted the assessment completes the attached ISU Return to Competition Form which is provided to the Skater and the Referee.

The second page is the ISU Return to Competition Form, with spaces for the physician to sign, and for the skater or guardian to sign.
But the language on the form is murky (the "if requested" part):

The Physician who conducted the return to compete assessment must complete this Form and have it signed by the Skater and her/his Guardian if requested.

MaxSwagg · Jun 30, 2015

Yuzuyan rule...

begin · Jun 30, 2015

Took them long enough..

ruffledgrouse · Jun 30, 2015

Funny, I was just telling my family about the CoC clusterf* after the similar collision that happened in the USA-GER world cup game a few minutes ago (two women headed each other going for the ball, there was blood, and nobody here was happy that they were put back in the game after only a few minutes). And then I check the news and find this. :yes: Good move, to give the ref final say on whether the athlete can continue- the athlete will always try no matter what and someone needs veto power on that.

Awww for cr-

The soccer player that's (still) bleeding from the head just headed that ball. There's your consecutive micro-concussions right there. Perfect example of why the new protocol is a good move

sabinfire · Jun 30, 2015

ruffledgrouse said:
Awww for cr- The soccer player that's (still) bleeding from the head just headed that ball. There's your consecutive micro-concussions right there. Perfect example of why the new protocol is a good move

Aww, that's nothing. Most hockey players will continue on -- even with a broken foot, having teeth knocked out, receiving quick stitches in the locker room so they can head back on the ice... the real injury can be dealt with after the game ends.

11. The Referee makes the final decision if the skater is allowed back onto the ice surface to compete.

I'd like to meet the referee that would forcibly prevent Hanyu from competing at a major event.

StitchMonkey · Jun 30, 2015

sabinfire said:
I'd like to meet the referee that would forcibly prevent Hanyu from competing at a major event.

I am thinking a diminutive grandmotherly type with a piercing stare would have the best luck.

Kori Ade is my second choice.

As for the ref rule, I wonder if it goes both ways. Can the doc say "no" and the ref say "i don't care, you can skate" or just that he can say no after the doctor has said yes.

sabinfire · Jun 30, 2015

StitchMonkey said:
As for the ref rule, I wonder if it goes both ways. Can the doc say "no" and the ref say "i don't care, you can skate" or just that he can say no after the doctor has said yes.

From wording and the way the document is numbered, I would say this is pretty clearly the ultimate responsibility of the Referee. "[...] The Physician will provide the Referee via the Timekeeper with his/her assessment if the Skater is fit to compete or not." -- followed near the end of the document, with "The Referee makes the final decision if the skater is allowed back onto the ice surface to compete."

ruffledgrouse · Jun 30, 2015

sabinfire said:
Aww, that's nothing. Most hockey players will continue on -- even with a broken foot, having teeth knocked out, receiving quick stitches in the locker room so they can head back on the ice... the real injury can be dealt with after the game ends.

Lol, yeah, hockey players are tough mofos. But a head injury, even a minor one, is on a whole other level from a body injury when it comes to long term consequences. A surgeon can stitch together ligaments, not neurons.

It would be interesting to see what the professional consequences would be for the ref that pulls Yuzu or Javi or Liza from the ice. I'll bet you're right, there would be a lot of hesitation to make that call.

Ack- that woman just headed that ball again! And then she grimaces in pain- well, duh stop doing that.

StitchMonkey · Jun 30, 2015

sabinfire said:
From wording and the way the document is numbered, I would say this is pretty clearly the ultimate responsibility of the Referee. "[...] The Physician will provide the Referee via the Timekeeper with his/her assessment if the Skater is fit to compete or not." -- followed near the end of the document, with "The Referee makes the final decision if the skater is allowed back onto the ice surface to compete."

Why even have a form if it is not required?

I can't help but feel this is more of a "how to point the finger at someone else" guide rather than actually trying to help injured skaters.

xibsuarz · Jun 30, 2015

StitchMonkey said:
I am thinking a diminutive grandmotherly type with a piercing stare would have the best luck.

Kori Ade is my second choice.

As for the ref rule, I wonder if it goes both ways. Can the doc say "no" and the ref say "i don't care, you can skate" or just that he can say no after the doctor has said yes.

It would be inhuman and non-sensical for a referee to allow a skater to compete after the doctor has said it's not safe. And why would he/she do it? (that's an honest question, do you think there would a reason for the referee to ignore the doctor's advise?) I'm not sure he/she would keep the job afterwards. :no:

My doubt is in the more gray area of the doctor saying "he/she can compete, BUT it's advisable that he/she doesn't", I figure the skater would most likely compete.

As for pulling a popular skater out, sure it's tough, but the athlete's health must come in first, there can be some serious consequences out of ignored injuries. I think it's best to miss a skater on a single competition and take good care of an injury than missing two, three or more, or having long term effects. Though it would be a tough call for sure.

sabinfire · Jun 30, 2015

Guess who is the first priority on the list for doing the 'assessment'? The skater's own physician!

The assessment is conducted by the Skater’s Team Physician (if present).

Of course, things get even more interesting if the skater's physician is not present.

sabinfire · Jun 30, 2015

xibsuarz said:
It would be inhuman and non-sensical for a referee to allow a skater to compete after the doctor has said it's not safe. And why would he/she do it? (that's an honest question, do you think there would a reason for the referee to ignore the doctor's advise?) I'm not sure he/she would keep the job afterwards. :no:

My doubt is in the more gray area of the doctor saying "he/she can compete, BUT it's advisable that he/she doesn't", I figure the skater would most likely compete.

Well, you say 'doctor' -- does the ISU keep an experienced medical doctor on hand at every event in case they need to make an assessment of a skater?

Or would this 'assessment' fall to an Assistant for the event's Medical Personnel, if no Team Physician is available -- as this document states?

xibsuarz · Jun 30, 2015

sabinfire said:
Well, you say 'doctor' -- does the ISU keep an experienced medical doctor on hand at every event in case they need to make an assessment of a skater?

Or would this 'assessment' fall to an Assistant for the event's Medical Personnel, if no Team Physician is available -- as this document states?

Well, the ISU Memorandum/Medical says that "A qualified medical doctor with emergency/trauma and or sport medicine training or
equivalent must be present during the scheduled practice sessions and competitions. " Although if that's the case, I don't know why there wasn't any at COC, IIRC, the team USA doctor was the one who checked on Yan and Hanyu. :slink:

sabinfire · Jun 30, 2015

xibsuarz said:
Although if that's the case, I don't know why there wasn't any at COC, IIRC, the team USA doctor was the one who checked on Yan and Hanyu.

I think you may have answered your own question. There was a qualified medical doctor present... they just weren't from the country of the skater's being evaluated. Trying to imagine the Team USA doctor assessing that Hanyu & Yan were unfit to skate in China... yeah...

xibsuarz · Jun 30, 2015

sabinfire said:
I think you may have answered your own question. There was a qualified medical doctor present... they just weren't from the country of the skater's being evaluated. Trying to imagine the Team USA doctor assessing that Hanyu & Yan were unfit to skate in China... yeah...

Wait, so if I understood you, the Memorandum states that there should be a qualified doctor and medical personnel, but not from the ISU/organizing venue itself? It could be from a skater's team? I got a little confused but if that's the case, that's just wrong. There should be a doctor set by the ISU or the organization itself in case a skater/country can't bring its own, not rely solely on the fact that some may bring one. Because it also states that he/she must be fluent in English or with an available interpreter. Some doctor's from certain skater teams' may not be able to communicate in English, and if something happens to a skater who is not from that country, communication will be hard. Maybe that should have been also covered in this protocol.

sabinfire · Jun 30, 2015

xibsuarz said:
Wait, so if I understood you, the Memorandum states that there should be a qualified doctor and medical personnel, but not from the ISU/organizing venue itself?

In other sports, it's fairly common for physicians from the opposing team to attend to injured players. The intended goal is to have trained medical staff available to deal with injuries quickly.

As for an independent/unbiased/unpolitical 'assessment' of a skater's ability to skate in a situation like CoC, I'm just asking the questions about whose lap this responsibility will fall in.

gkelly · Jun 30, 2015

xibsuarz said:
My doubt is in the more gray area of the doctor saying "he/she can compete, BUT it's advisable that he/she doesn't", I figure the skater would most likely compete.

If it comes down to the skater's decision, with advice that it's advisable not to compete, I figure it will make a big difference what the event is.

E.g., I'd expect skaters to take more risks with their own health at Worlds or Olympics than at a minor competition leading up to a big event. Unless they're trying to qualify for the big event and they have a chance if they compete but none if they withdraw.

Meoima · Jun 30, 2015

StitchMonkey said:
I am thinking a diminutive grandmotherly type with a piercing stare would have the best luck.

Is this enough to scare the most stubborn skater away: http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/parody/images/3/39/Yubaba.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141002193120

karne · Jun 30, 2015

This is closer, but still not good enough. The doctor should have to be an independent ISU doctor and there should be no gray areas in the ruling when it comes to head injuries. Can you even begin to imagine the uproar if the Team USA doctor had been able to rule Hanyu and Han out of CoC? If the referee had called them over and said "No, you're not fit to skate?" Heavens above!

Sam-Skwantch · Jun 30, 2015

The NHL is easily one of the roughest sports out there. In the last few years they've cracked down on potential brain injuries like concussions. Here as a brief article on their newest strategy

written by a former competitive figure skater)

http://feed.nchl.com/entering-nhls-best-kept-secret-the-quiet-room/

In a nutshell...if a player is involved in a play resulting in potential head injury they are required to go to a quiet room and pass a set of tests that measure potential difficulties with balance and comprehension.

Just food for thought.

ISU protocol for on ice medical emergencies in figure skating

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

MaxSwagg

Match Penalty

begin

ruffledgrouse

sabinfire

Doing the needful

StitchMonkey

sabinfire

Doing the needful

ruffledgrouse

StitchMonkey

xibsuarz

sabinfire

Doing the needful

sabinfire

Doing the needful

xibsuarz

sabinfire

Doing the needful

xibsuarz

sabinfire

Doing the needful

gkelly

Meoima

Match Penalty

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Similar threads

Connect with us