Wagner's world medal and her legacy | Golden Skate

Wagner's world medal and her legacy

arewhyaen

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
I want a world medal for Ashley Wagner and I think a world medal will seal her place among America's greatest female skaters. But does she need it to seal her place in the long legacy of American ladies figure skating?

Ashley has been one of the most competitive American ladies of this era - 3 Nationals Titles, 3 Bronze medals, and 2 pewters. This "era" in American skating, if it were called one, has definitely belonged to Wagner and Gold - successors of sort to Meissner before her, Cohen before that, and Kwan before that. However, Meissner, Cohen, and Kwan all had success (to varying degrees) at the World Championships. Stretching back even further, Lipinski, Bobek, Kerrigan, Yamaguchi, Trenary, Thomas, Harding, Thomas, Chin, all had success on the international stage.

So I guess my question is this: Does Ashley need a world medal for her to be considered a torch bearer for this era and for American ladies skating, in general? Sure, Ashley has been successful on the grand prix circuit, but is that enough? Does she need a world medal to even be mentioned in the same breath as the aforementioned ladies? Without a world medal will she just be seen as a representation of the decline of American skating, or at best, a transitional time for better things to come?
 

brightphoton

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
I think everyone on your list has a World or Olympic medal:
Lipinski
Bobek
Kerrigan
Yamaguchi
Trenary
Harding (?) can't remember, but she's famous because of the knee whack and that huge triple axel
Chin (?) don't know if she ever won anything at World's. Too bad her mom derailed her career


Without the World or Olympic medal, Ashley, and Gracie, and Polina are in the "almost great" or "pretty good" tier
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
I think everyone on your list has a World or Olympic medal:
Lipinski
Bobek
Kerrigan
Yamaguchi
Trenary
Harding (?) can't remember, but she's famous because of the knee whack and that huge triple axel
Chin (?) don't know if she ever won anything at World's. Too bad her mom derailed her career


Without the World or Olympic medal, Ashley, and Gracie, and Polina are in the "almost great" or "pretty good" tier

Tonya was Famous long before the Nancy Incident and up until 1994, was one of the most popular skaters in the World. She won the Silver at Worlds behind Kristi and ahead of Nancy the year the US swept the Podium in 1991. She was the "Anti Establishment" Blue Collar skater and had tons of fans....Including me. What a stupid mistake she made.
 
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ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I want a world medal for Ashley Wagner and I think a world medal will seal her place among America's greatest female skaters. But does she need it to seal her place in the long legacy of American ladies figure skating?

Ashley has been one of the most competitive American ladies of this era - 3 Nationals Titles, 3 Bronze medals, and 2 pewters. This "era" in American skating, if it were called one, has definitely belonged to Wagner and Gold - successors of sort to Meissner before her, Cohen before that, and Kwan before that. However, Meissner, Cohen, and Kwan all had success (to varying degrees) at the World Championships. Stretching back even further, Lipinski, Bobek, Kerrigan, Yamaguchi, Trenary, Thomas, Harding, Thomas, Chin, all had success on the international stage.

So I guess my question is this: Does Ashley need a world medal for her to be considered a torch bearer for this era and for American ladies skating, in general? Sure, Ashley has been successful on the grand prix circuit, but is that enough? Does she need a world medal to even be mentioned in the same breath as the aforementioned ladies? Without a world medal will she just be seen as a representation of the decline of American skating, or at best, a transitional time for better things to come?

Interesting that you either forgot to mention Sarah Hughes in your OP or did not consider her Olympic gold worthy of even a mention.
 
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qwerty

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
It gets sticky trying to compare skaters from different eras. Ashley, especially right now, is competing in one of the most competitive women's fields of all time. This has contributed to her lack of world medals. In terms of pure hardware, no, Ashley is not quite up to snuff with the Kwans and Cohens of American skating history. She does have an Olympic team bronze medal, don't forget!

That said... her longevity, national titles, GP success, and personality certainly make a case for stamping her mark in the history books. I personally feel she has made more a mark than say, Chin and Bobek. Even Meissner actually. This is IMO, of course.

That said, a world medal would certainly help cement a legacy.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Ooooor...maybe she/he forgot?

And I said that forgetting was one of the possibilities.

But forgetting in itself would suggest that one particular medal or lack thereof does not make or break a legacy.

ETA:
Sarah Hughes has a bronze from Worlds too -- in addition to her Olympic gold.
So the OP either consciously or subconsciously does not consider these two medals a legacy equal to those of the other ladies mentioned.​
 
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mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
This is a difficult question. I don't remember if Janet Lynn ever won Worlds but, I think She Medaled. I will say that She was certainly very popular. Older Generation. Wasn't Janet the spokeswoman for Kodak Instamatic Camera's? Do you guys remember those things? They were basically a cardboard box that took horrible pictures that you had to take to "Photomat" to get developed.
 
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megenta

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Apparently Janet Lynn was on Olympic bronze medalist and two time World medalist. I do think that if you want to be remembered as the "creme de la creme" you need a World and/or Olympic medal, even though not all of these medalist are equally remembered or popular. Whenever I recognize some skaters name from decades ago and go to Wikipedia, they've won World/Olympic medals; meaning that even though I've been interested in figure skating for only about 5 years, I've somewhere along the way heard about Janet Lynn, Dorothy Hamill, Torvill & Dean etc and I probably would't have if they were only national champions. A 4CC win doesn't do it either. So I hope Ashley gets a World medal, she has work sooo hard for it.
 

Layback11

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Probably; she has many GPF medals and three National titles, but none from a major ISU event bigger than 4CC (unless we're counting Olympic team event and WTT medals). If she wants to be one of the greats, she needs at least one medal from Worlds or the Olympics and preferably multiple medals or a world title. Same with Gracie, Polina, etc.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
And I said that forgetting was one of the possibilities.

But forgetting in itself would suggest that one particular medal or lack thereof does not make or break a legacy.

To me Hughes is not in the same class as the others mentioned, nor frankly is Lipinski, who is only really remembered with such vividness because it was Kwan she beat out for the OGM. I do myself believe that having a Olympic or World medal in and of itself does not ensure you have a real 'legacy', but I'd argue that whether it is possible to have a real legacy without a World medal is a different question than whether you having said medal necessarily ensures you have a legacy.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
This is a difficult question. I don't remember if Janet Lynn ever won Worlds but, I think She Medaled. I will say that She was certainly very popular. Older Generation. Wasn't Janet the spokeswoman for Kodak Instamatic Camera's? Do you guys remember those things? They were basically a cardboard box that took horrible pictures that you had to take to "Photomat" to get developed.

She never won Worlds but had silver and bronze medals. She also won bronze at the 1972 Olympics. She won the free skate at the 1972 Olympics and at 1971, 1972 and 1973 Worlds. She was five-time US champion.
 
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ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
To me Hughes is not in the same class as the others mentioned, nor frankly is Lipinski, who is only really remembered with such vividness because it was Kwan she beat out for the OGM. I do myself believe that having a Olympic or World medal in and of itself does not ensure you have a real 'legacy', but I'd argue that whether it is possible to have a real legacy without a World medal is a different question than whether you having said medal necessarily ensures you have a legacy.

I merely was responding to what the OP said. The OP included Lipinski, but not Hughes.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I know, and I hope I didn't come across argumentatively... just putting my two cents out there :)

No worries, you did not come across argumentatively. And I hope that I did not either.

And I do understand the distinctions you are making as to whether a world medal is necessary or sufficient or both.

I don't claim to have a deep knowledge of skating history, so I don't have an informed perspective re the OP's question about how Ashley will be remembered by others.

All I know is that she will be memorable to me :).
 

desertskates

Medalist
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
I think Ashley's most important legacy will be her tenacity. For more than 8 years +, win or lose, that girl has showed up well trained and prepared. She enjoys her victories and owns her defeats, and will never go down without trying her hardest. There is a good chance that she'll never take home a World Medal, but if I had a daughter in skating, I would be happy to have her look up to Ashley :)
 

Lexiglass

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
I think Ashley's most important legacy will be her tenacity. For more than 8 years +, win or lose, that girl has showed up well trained and prepared. She enjoys her victories and owns her defeats, and will never go down without trying her hardest. There is a good chance that she'll never take home a World Medal, but if I had a daughter in skating, I would be happy to have her look up to Ashley :)

I think that's right. I think there's a lot to be said for the fact that she has actually improved, both technically and artistically, each season that she has competed. She's an excellent role model for young skaters. I do think that she will have a legacy within US figure skating, given her status as one of the top in the field for so many years, and I don't think she needs a world medal to cement that.
 
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