Tara and Johnny too opinionated?

Does anyone else find T & J offering their opinion on who was better than who and who should win a little too much? I think the role of commentators is to call the jumps, offer a bit of history of each skater and say so and so did a great job or so and so needs to improve their footwork or lutz etc.
I find them declaring who should have won or that skater A is better than Skater B sort of arrogant.
An example is when Johnny declared that Adam's FS was not better than Max's. And I am not just saying this because I am an Adam fan. I was actually completely expecting Max to win.
But it's just arrogant of Johnny to make that call. Who is he? He's not a judge, he is a commentator.

It just irks me. T & J seem to be more about their ego's than anything else.

To tell the truth I am not too upset about it. Tara and Johnny are paid to give their opinions. So, that's what they do.

As for me, I have an opinion, too. Only I don't get paid.

Everyone has an opinion on everything, but having an opinion is the easy part. The difficult part is to express it in a polite, respectable and convincing way, and this is an art that seems to go more and more out of fashion these days. T & J are no exceptions. Besides, creating minor controversies may be part of their job description.

EdgeCall said:

Everyone has an opinion on everything, but having an opinion is the easy part. The difficult part is to express it in a polite, respectable and convincing way, and this is an art that seems to go more and more out of fashion these days. T & J are no exceptions. Besides, creating minor controversies may be part of their job description.

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Your first sentence is 100% correct!! I just hope that Tara, Johnny, and maybe one of the producers go over each event and give an honest critique to Both Tara and Johnny. I would love it if Tara could find another way to say that Ashley "Needs A Clean Skate!" It seriously drives me crazy every time she says that and she says it during EVERY skater's. It's like DUH Tara..

The problem for me with Tara and Johnny is that they talk and they talk and they talk too much. I much prefer a bit reserved commentary of Eurosport. Although their recent overhyping of Medvedeva has been a bit nauseating for me personally, as amazing as she is.

Whenever I see US nationals or Skate America on youtube, I just am forced by their commentary to switch to another video. Even though I prefer to normally watch English commentary, I am genuinely much happier if I can find Japanese or Russian video, when I end up having the misfortune of having to listen to Weir and Lipinsky. I think when they commentate, they try to make the whole scene about them as opposed to the skater, which can be a bit annoying.

Here's my opinion on figure skating commentary in general...

1. While the performance is going on, the commentators should be partners with the skaters. The primary concerns should be the skaters desire to express and the audience desire to be entertained. Try not take the viewer out of an emotional state and into an analytic state of mind unless the performance has really deteriorated.
2. Afterwards, be as analytical. critical, and opinionated as you want.

I thought Tara and Johnny's commentary on the US National's men's event was pretty rude. They not only put down Adam and couldn't seem to find a nice thing to say about him in his moment of victory, but continued to whine and talk over/ignore Ross's performance. I like when commentators give their opinion, but that was over the top. My preference is for commentators to let the skaters skate, calling the jumps and elements and occasionally pointing out some of the exemplary or slightly less than exemplary technique/skills etc. that may not be obvious to TV viewers or non-skaters. I like to hear their reactions to the scores but no need to claim conspiracy - a simple "I disagree because x" is sufficient. It's also nice when someone else on the commentating team brings up "but don't forget about y". I think skating doesn't need the commentators creating scandals, especially when they have the protocols in front of them and can clearly articulate why the scores turned out the way they did.

I really like Johnny and Tara, usually, so I don't want to come off as too critical. But, I was disappointed by several comments at this year's nationals:
1) What I did not appreciate was Johnny saying the judges took time scoring Adam so they could place skaters "where they wanted" as to suggest Adam wasn't deserving. Such a derogatory comment fuels the fire that judging in figure skating is suspect and threatens the integrity of the sport. That's dangerous! It takes time to review flagged jumps. A skater's score is based on Technical elements and grade of execution and the five categories of program components. I don't mind hearing them indicate which skate they preferred, but they would help figure skating fans/cause by explaining more completely why one skater's technical score should be higher than another skater's and/or explaining Program Component score differences between skaters. For example, tell us Max's speed should be rewarded more fully or why his edging isn't as technically sound as Adam's, tell us what distinguishes a 7.5 from a 9 for Transitions, and show some examples of each. They are experts on skating and can be more informative and "opinionated" so long as they explain their opinion, which leads me to...

2) Johnny also threw shade at Polina when he said Gracie's program was a "Mature" free skate" when comparing it to Polina. The way he said it, in comparison, suggested Polina was immature. Now, last I checked, "Maturity" isn't a criteria that judges evaluate, but they do evaluate technical merit, grade of execution and Program Components of her Choreography, Skating Skills, Interpretation, Transitions, and Program Execution. Focus on how Gracie distinguished herself in these ways (perhaps Gracie's choreography was more mature, but tell us how). I'm sensitive because they have been critical of Polina, her outfits, her Tinkerbell music, etc. over the past two years and seem like they've pigeon-holed her as immature without recognizing all the ways she has developed in the past two years.

Tara and Johnny each had immature phases in their career, and some might argue Johnny is still immature (e.g., his blatant attempts to try to steal the show by dressing outrageously). I don't think he would enjoy it if commentators at the time said his single pink tassel from 2009 was an unnecessarily immature attention grab embellishment on his costume, but that's what I thought it was.

Skaters have served as commentators alongside sports journalists (e.g., Terry Gannon) for years. It is their expertise that I enjoy (Dick Button telling us what makes a good layback spin is classic), so I hope Johnny and Tara have a wonderful legacy like Dick and I wish them well, but hope the most recent coverage is not the direction in which they are moving...or being encouraged to move because I really do enjoy them overall.

They are different. Scott and Sandra, Dick and Peggy, all had their critics as well. I have never heard either of them be purposefully rude. I think sometimes trying to make a quick and timely comment that things can be said better but they are still very new at this compared to the other commentating teams from the past. I am happy that they bring skating to a wider audience. I think with commentators it is best to assume they are coming from a good place unless it is painfully obvious that they are not. I agree that talk silence during a program would be ideal but I don't think that is what they are being paid for.

They were spot on about Nationals. Adam shouldn't have won and now way should he have gotten those outrageous components. And they were both skaters! Every judge was a previous skater, probably half or even most of them experiencing less success than Johnny or Tara. Of course they're qualified to "judge" performances!

KwanIsALegend said:

Does anyone else find T & J offering their opinion on who was better than who and who should win a little too much? I think the role of commentators is to call the jumps, offer a bit of history of each skater and say so and so did a great job or so and so needs to improve their footwork or lutz etc.
I find them declaring who should have won or that skater A is better than Skater B sort of arrogant.
An example is when Johnny declared that Adam's FS was not better than Max's. And I am not just saying this because I am an Adam fan. I was actually completely expecting Max to win.
But it's just arrogant of Johnny to make that call. Who is he? He's not a judge, he is a commentator.

It just irks me. T & J seem to be more about their ego's than anything else.

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Don't worry, he wasn't just picking on Adam. When Max was sitting in the kiss and cry waiting for his scores, Weir said he thought Max should win. When Max's score came up and put him in first, he began to opine about how shonky the judging was. What?

Weir particularly has some kind of jealousy problem with the US men. He didn't have one good word to say about Max during SkAm that wasn't about his jumps.

I actually wish North American commentators would actually explain that the skater should get such and such a level on an element. This would help views under more. NBC tried but only showed the base values and not GPE. The cattyness of these two does not help the sport.

sc8 said:

1) What I did not appreciate was Johnny saying the judges took time scoring Adam so they could place skaters "where they wanted" as to suggest Adam wasn't deserving. Such a derogatory comment fuels the fire that judging in figure skating is suspect and threatens the integrity of the sport.

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I think you hit the bullseye on that. They are essential putting down the sport they are suppose to be promoting. Why should casual fans tune in at all if the judges supposedly fix the placements? The truth is, figure skating's audience is dwindling and these sort if comments that put a smear on the sport will just make it worse.

The points made upstream are so right :

Talking over the skater's performance is bad enough (and it is bad. I don't care if Johnny and Tara are the voice of God and 300% right. Which of course I don't think they are. Shut up already!)

But talking about *another* skater during the skater's performance is just, just, just .... :eekn: That is beyond shut up already. It's just stupid.

And it seems to have infected Tanith (was she the one who talked over the Shibs?) Is this disease carried by mosquitos

lyndichee said:

I think you hit the bullseye on that. They are essential putting down the sport they are suppose to be promoting. Why should casual fans tune in at all if the judges supposedly fix the placements? The truth is, figure skating's audience is dwindling and these sort if comments that put a smear on the sport will just make it worse.

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So they should turn a blind eye to dodgy judging? I was shocked that the American commentators (Tara/Johnny and Sandra/Scott) defended Sotnikova's marks, while every other international commentator save for Russian were left scatting their heads... The marks for Adam/MAx/Nathan were odd, particularly Adam's. How the hell he was so close and in the end beat two guys with superior technical content and similar PCS is beyond me...

KwanIsALegend said:

Does anyone else find T & J offering their opinion on who was better than who and who should win a little too much? I think the role of commentators is to call the jumps, offer a bit of history of each skater and say so and so did a great job or so and so needs to improve their footwork or lutz etc.
I find them declaring who should have won or that skater A is better than Skater B sort of arrogant.
An example is when Johnny declared that Adam's FS was not better than Max's. And I am not just saying this because I am an Adam fan. I was actually completely expecting Max to win.
But it's just arrogant of Johnny to make that call. Who is he? He's not a judge, he is a commentator.

It just irks me. T & J seem to be more about their ego's than anything else.

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I think it is a balancing act. They are supposed to be knowledgeable so of course they are expected to have opinions (however their knowledge about ice dancing was called into question by TSL) but their opinions have to be both informative and entertaining. Sometimes it seems one part suffers for the other and that usually is just a matter of timing. However I like the idea that sometimes it is just so obvious that the viewer is witnessing excellence that he/she doesn't require witty banter or informative insight. I think they both need to learn how to appreciate silence but other than that I give them a pass.

MAXSwagg said:

So they should turn a blind eye to dodgy judging? I was shocked that the American commentators (Tara/Johnny and Sandra/Scott) defended Sotnikova's marks, while every other international commentator save for Russian were left scatting their heads... The marks for Adam/MAx/Nathan were odd, particularly Adam's. How the hell he was so close and in the end beat two guys with superior technical content and similar PCS is beyond me...

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When the scores come up they could have said they disagreed with the scores by alluding to speed, jump content, GOEs for certain elements, UR for the 4Lz etc.

It did not have to be a backhanded comment about how sleazy judging is. If anything, I think tackling the issue head on by supporting your assessment of the performance is what an expert and commentator should be doing. Providing a well-informed statement with evidence to support their stance will help casual viewers understand the numbers that pop up on the screen, not making a comment suggesting that all judges are corrupt and collude on scores.

There is a difference between defending/disagreeing with scores and outright slandering the integrity of the sport.

KwanIsALegend said:

Does anyone else find T & J offering their opinion on who was better than who and who should win a little too much? I think the role of commentators is to call the jumps, offer a bit of history of each skater and say so and so did a great job or so and so needs to improve their footwork or lutz etc.
I find them declaring who should have won or that skater A is better than Skater B sort of arrogant.
An example is when Johnny declared that Adam's FS was not better than Max's. And I am not just saying this because I am an Adam fan. I was actually completely expecting Max to win.
But it's just arrogant of Johnny to make that call. Who is he? He's not a judge, he is a commentator.

It just irks me. T & J seem to be more about their ego's than anything else.

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No. They are not too opinnionated. They are doing their job. It's not arrogant to give your opinion when asked to do so by your employer.

Just because some people hate Johnny for whatever reason, cannot stand the fact that Tara dared to defeat Kwan, and thus, cannot tolerate her mere existence, that does not make the two of them unqualified to give their opinions on figure skating.

And I applaud them for calling out sleezy judging when they see it, instead of treating the audience as if they were stupid and pretending results were not shady or controversial. Japanese commentators covering US nationals sniggered at the judging. Lots of casual viewers and skating fans were outraged by the results. Pretending that the judging was fine would have been disingeneous and turned off a lot of people.

el henry said:

The points made upstream are so right :

Talking over the skater's performance is bad enough (and it is bad. I don't care if Johnny and Tara are the voice of God and 300% right. Which of course I don't think they are. Shut up already!)

But talking about *another* skater during the skater's performance is just, just, just .... :eekn: That is beyond shut up already. It's just stupid.

And it seems to have infected Tanith (was she the one who talked over the Shibs?) Is this disease carried by mosquitos

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I was just about to add Tanith to the list. She basically ruined the Shibs for me. Zip it already!!

So even the voice of God wouldn't be welcomed during a performance. Things are getting pretty real over here