State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17 | Page 88 | Golden Skate

State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

champs

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
I think we as fans have a tendency to pin our hopes on/get excited about the people with the raw talent and natural qualities like Gracie and Karen, even if time and again they let us down. Those two have higher ceilings and more potential than, say, skaters like Ashley and Polina.

But Karen is in a different boat than Ashley also in that she's been with the same coach for a long time and she obviously hasn't decided to seek a new situation with a more experienced, elite coach who might bring more stability to her skating. She hasn't worked with any well-known choreographers. She shouldn't wait until it's too late to get to that next level with her skating. Gracie, too, ended up making the move to that elite level, in part by moving to Frank and Lori. Although it may not have made her more consistent in the long run or improved her nerves, it's put her in World medal contention and won her National championships and gotten her to the GPF. OTOH, someone like Polina Edmunds arguably lost the National championships because her skating/programs didn't match Gracie's world class level. If Karen wants to move her career forward, she probably needs a change to a coach who has trained champions.

Regarding the question of Ashley's consistency/lack thereof - she's as consistent or more consistent than any other current lady over the age of 20.
Is it a proven fact that Gracie's coaching/choreographer changes to Carroll/Nichol played a role in her moving into World medal contention that staying with he previous coaches/choreographers never could have done? And how do you know or why do you think that leaving Gambill will do Karen any good?
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Is it a proven fact that Gracie's coaching/choreographer changes to Carroll/Nichol played a role in her moving into World medal contention that staying with he previous coaches/choreographers never could have done? And how do you know or why do you think that leaving Gambill will do Karen any good?

There's no way to prove that NOT doing something would've led to the same result as the thing that was done. That's just inane. But that doesn't mean that we can't look at patterns across the careers of dozens of skaters and see that changing to a more well-known coach who has coached former champions and choreographers who have choreographed for champions usually has a more positive impact than negative on a skater. Of course, there are exceptions like Mirai Nagasu's move to Frank Carroll, and Adam Rippon's work with Brian Orser. Not every elite coach is the perfect fit for every skater.

For all the hate Morozov gets in general for being a creep, Anna P.'s work with him on choreography definitely made her better than she had been.

Staying with Gambill doesn't appear to be doing Karen any overwhelming good, and Gambill's track record shows that she has a history of bringing skaters to the cusp of greatness but hasn't yet brought one all the way there. Could Karen be the one Gambill finally brings to that top level? Could be, but how long is it going to take / how long should we wait? Karen's career has obviously stagnated - is it intentional with a longer-term goal in mind? Doing the same thing over and over again while expecting new results is the definition of insanity.

But if Karen is happy with Tammy and where her skating is/is heading, then of course she should stay.
 

frida80

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Is it a proven fact that Gracie's coaching/choreographer changes to Carroll/Nichol played a role in her moving into World medal contention that staying with he previous coaches/choreographers never could have done? And how do you know or why do you think that leaving Gambill will do Karen any good?

I did some research on Gracie before and after Frank. Before she went to Frank, her PCS for her long program was around 60. After working with Frank it jumped to 68 at the Olympics and 66 at worlds. It's stayed consistently higher, bottoming at 64 and as high as 69 at last year's worlds. So yes, going to Frank had a strong effect on Gracie's PCS scores.

Gambill is not a good coach for senior level skaters. All ladies she's coached have had jumping issues. I watched another girl with promise go to her this year only to start popping jumps like crazy, it was terrible. Karen has some beautiful large jumps, capable of getting good GoE scores if she starts landing them consistently. Several other skaters had similar problems before going to better coaches that could get their jumping issues under control. She already has what she needs to be more competitive already. High level spins, foot work, spirals, and can actually perform. She just needs the right senior coach that can take her skating to the next level.

Though I'm very encouraged from what I'm seeing this year. Last year she struggled because she went through 14 pair of ill fitting skates and the Harlick skates could never fix the problem. (These are the same type of skates that injured Polina before worlds.) The skates injured her and she skated through nationals and FCC injured. Not to mention how much she's grown in the last 18 months. Growth spurts always destroy your consistency. But she looks like she got through it better than a lot of girls. This year she looks better with every competition.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Karen's career has obviously stagnated - is it intentional with a longer-term goal in mind? Doing the same thing over and over again while expecting new results is the definition of insanity.

But if Karen is happy with Tammy and where her skating is/is heading, then of course she should stay.

I believe Karen is 17, so it is understandable that she wouldn't want to make any big changes that would require her to leave home. The vast majority of skaters jump worse at 17 than they do at 15, even those coached by the very best, so it is unlikely (but possible) that a change would improve her level much beyond what we saw at NHK.
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
I believe Karen is 17, so it is understandable that she wouldn't want to make any big changes that would require her to leave home. The vast majority of skaters jump worse at 17 than they do at 15, even those coached by the very best, so it is unlikely (but possible) that a change would improve her level much beyond what we saw at NHK.

Your point about 15 year olds jumping better than 17 year olds is fair enough, as well how reasonable it is that Karen wouldn't want to leave home.

One of the reasons the US can't keep up with Russia and Japan is its coaching geography. Changing coaches involves a big move geographically, whereas in Russia, all the coaches (please don't quote me and say "well so-and-so coach doesn't coach there!" I'm well-aware this is a generalization, there are exceptions, but my point still stands) are in Moscow or St. Petersburg. The US has some concentrations of top singles coaches in LA and Colorado Springs, but there are also coaches in Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, Detroit, and y'know, Canada. IMO, one of the main problems for US ladies is their consistency and their jump technique. When we end up with someone not a total headcase (Gracie), they end up having jump technique that needs adjustments that range from minor to major (Ashley, Mirai, Karen, Polina, Hannah Miller). If they moved to a better coach at a younger age, as juniors or even novices (see: Russia), the US ladies wouldn't be in a bad situation.

US ladies were way more successful under 6.0 when there wasn't such scrutiny on technical details of jumps and having learned inferior jump technique wouldn't necessarily derail your career.
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Those two have higher ceilings and more potential than, say, skaters like Ashley and Polina.

What makes you say that? "Potential" is everything that hasn't happened yet; there is no way to perceive or evaluate it. Respectfully, I think it's unfair to dismiss a skater for what might or might not happen in the future.

I just want to say, this thread is reminding me of why this forum can be a depressing place for Polina fans. It's one thing to criticize the girl for the quality of her skating, but it's another thing to put her down for things none of us know anything about, like her personality and moral character, or for things like "potential" and "it factor" that are more about other people's subjective tastes than about the skater herself. I really wish we, as fans, had a more inclusive and empathetic common language for discussing skaters whose performances we dislike.

OK, that's all I wanted to say, and now I am going to keep quiet. Carry on. :slink:
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Your point about 15 year olds jumping better than 17 year olds is fair enough, as well how reasonable it is that Karen wouldn't want to leave home.

One of the reasons the US can't keep up with Russia and Japan is its coaching geography. Changing coaches involves a big move geographically, whereas in Russia, all the coaches (please don't quote me and say "well so-and-so coach doesn't coach there!" I'm well-aware this is a generalization, there are exceptions, but my point still stands) are in Moscow or St. Petersburg. The US has some concentrations of top singles coaches in LA and Colorado Springs, but there are also coaches in Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, Detroit, and y'know, Canada. IMO, one of the main problems for US ladies is their consistency and their jump technique. When we end up with someone not a total headcase (Gracie), they end up having jump technique that needs adjustments that range from minor to major (Ashley, Mirai, Karen, Polina, Hannah Miller). If they moved to a better coach at a younger age, as juniors or even novices (see: Russia), the US ladies wouldn't be in a bad situation.

US ladies were way more successful under 6.0 when there wasn't such scrutiny on technical details of jumps and having learned inferior jump technique wouldn't necessarily derail your career.

The russian system is bad though - if a skater needs a good coach, Moscow and St.Petersburg are the only possibilities. So in order to be competitive, skaters must relocate with their families when they are like 13-15. Also, those cities are very expensive (for example, you cannot sell an appartment somewhere in Siberia and by an appartment in Moscow).
And notice that russia has more state funding for FS. USA skaters and their families would have to pay for all this by themselves, which would make it even more restrictive.


Imho, the main difference is that in russia, FS at basic level is quite affordable. So it is not a fancy expensive sport - most kids CAN skate. Russian climate allows having a field that is a soccer field on summer and a skating rink during winter, so having giving kids some basic level skating does not require a special expensive rink, traveling for hours every day and so on.
This allows to capture way more talent.
I´m pretty sure USA has many girls that would make 200+ skaters but their families never could afford it.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
If they moved to a better coach at a younger age, as juniors or even novices (see: Russia), the US ladies wouldn't be in a bad situation.

To be fair, Russia has done very well in major events since 2014: 1 OGM (individual), 2 WGMs, 1 WSM, 2 WBMs. However, not one of these medalists has repeated (which will very likely change this year). So Russia has done a great job with their younger ladies, but none have shown to have any longevity yet.
 

KatGrace1925

Medalist
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
To be fair, Russia has done very well in major events since 2014: 1 OGM (individual), 2 WGMs, 1 WSM, 2 WBMs. However, not one of these medalists has repeated (which will very likely change this year). So Russia has done a great job with their younger ladies, but none have shown to have any longevity yet.

Also for some reason judges ignore flaws of skaters when they are consistently landing all their jumps. Russia benefits from this with edges and underrotations being ignored, plus the crazy PCS bonus's that come with this consistency. If the American ladies would be consistent they could also benefit this way. I don't agree that these kinds of benefits should exist but they do.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Russia benefits from this with edges and underrotations being ignored, plus the crazy PCS bonus's that come with this consistency.

A lot of the Russian women have solid technique: Elena, Liza, and Anna rarely get edge calls or URs. Of the American women, I think only the same is true of Courtney. It seems that last season, a few of the women (like Ashley, Evgenia, and Gracie) were clever in where they placed their problematic jump but it appears that the tech panel caught on and they are getting at least "!" when they don't have the correct edge on takeoff.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Another thing that the top Russian Women benefit from is the fact that they rarely fall. It can't be underestimated just how jarring a fall is to a program. There are some skaters who can get away with a fall due their superior skating skills but, not many. I think Gracie got away with it for a while but, clearly the judges are not going pump up her PCS when you add a lack of performance to a fall. Mirai is the same way, she used to be such a great performer, and she still can be. However, if she has an early fall, she basically stops performing.

Ashley, Evgenia, and Kaetlyn are never "Off Stage" they stay in character even when the sky is falling.
 

topaz emerald

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
The russian system is bad though - if a skater needs a good coach, Moscow and St.Petersburg are the only possibilities. So in order to be competitive, skaters must relocate with their families when they are like 13-15. Also, those cities are very expensive (for example, you cannot sell an appartment somewhere in Siberia and by an appartment in Moscow).
And notice that russia has more state funding for FS. USA skaters and their families would have to pay for all this by themselves, which would make it even more restrictive.


Imho, the main difference is that in russia, FS at basic level is quite affordable. So it is not a fancy expensive sport - most kids CAN skate. Russian climate allows having a field that is a soccer field on summer and a skating rink during winter, so having giving kids some basic level skating does not require a special expensive rink, traveling for hours every day and so on.
This allows to capture way more talent.
I´m pretty sure USA has many girls that would make 200+ skaters but their families never could afford it.




yup, I think it's the cost, too. Moving to a different area as minor, the parents would have to move entirely, maybe even have to sell their house. Or mom moves with child, while dad stays behind, and you only get to see them twice a year, something like that. Then paying for a mortgage back home, and new living expenses in your new skating home? That's way too much. I cannot imagine a lot of skating parents would go for it. For example, knowing all this, my husband would never allow my son/daughter to even take skating lessons beyond the basic. The financial payback is nothing.
 

topaz emerald

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
To be fair, Russia has done very well in major events since 2014: 1 OGM (individual), 2 WGMs, 1 WSM, 2 WBMs. However, not one of these medalists has repeated (which will very likely change this year). So Russia has done a great job with their younger ladies, but none have shown to have any longevity yet.

I saw a very interesting interview on youtube that TSL did with Raphael where he mentioned that Michelle Kwan helped him to understand the psychology of American skaters. He said American skaters "make themselves good", "it's not the coach that's involves that much", "it's basically themselves", "and those parents", "the passion and mentality to do it", "it's an individual product". "In Russia it works a different way,.....the coach is more involved than the parents, it's like a factory of production, like Detroit makes a factory of cars." And he took Michelle Kwan as an example of individual product. He said no one was more involved in her skating than her father was....and another example was Nathan Chen, that no one is more involved in his skating than his mom, so when he's not feeling good, he'll tell his mom first, not the coach obviously, but what's being told to mom is not being communicated to coach, so coach assumes skater is fine. I don't know if this just happens with him as a coach, or if the generalization is valid.

Again, I think it boils down to who has to pay for the cost of skating. If the generalization Raf is making is true, then obviously the parents are more involved in the student's skating than the coaches. And ultimately, it's the parents that are steering their son/daughter's success for US skaters..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc7heCzLYZ8&t=897s
 

topaz emerald

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Also for some reason judges ignore flaws of skaters when they are consistently landing all their jumps. Russia benefits from this with edges and underrotations being ignored, plus the crazy PCS bonus's that come with this consistency. If the American ladies would be consistent they could also benefit this way. I don't agree that these kinds of benefits should exist but they do.

I'm glad you brought that up. That is another major issue, in my opinion. And I don't know why that is....
 

skatelikewind1966

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
All this talk about great coaches (in CO,CA, etc) and skaters with potential (Ashley, Polina, Gracie, etc) reminds me of a conversation I had with an ISU Representative about the competitiveness of Ladies skating in the US, Russia and Japan. Yes, there are top coaches but lets not forget, until last year, there was also a drought for the US Ladies of about 10 years without a medal at worlds or the Olympics and this was the longest drought since 1924. I would think these same great coaches mentioned in earlier posts were coaching and had students during the last 10 years but unfortunately they themselves were unable to get the results that so many think they could now - I'm not sure if I understand this or not.
I for one think coaches can obviously make a difference, but for the most part, once a strong figure skater reaches the Jr level she should already know how to do all of the jumps and therefore no longer needs to be coached, per se; rather, the coach needs to be able to manage the athlete, work with the athlete’s mental state and tweak things along the road to greatness. Most top level Jr and Sr lady skaters have the ability, the talent, the potential, the skill and the understanding of how to execute the jumps and footwork, but the real challenge comes with choreographing a great program to highlight the skaters strengths and having the wherewithal to maximize points from start to finish and most importantly, it all rests with the skater who needs to have the mental strength to do it consistently (this is what is lacking in the US).
Alot has been said here about Karen and her current situation. Two years ago she was 3rd at Nationals, 2 years before that she was the Novice Champion and everyone thought she was wonderful. The in-between years she was riddled with injuries. Now, a lot of people are saying she should change coaches!? I think she should stay where she is as her coach is very good, the real question is whether Karen has the mental stamina and the individual fight to push thru her current short comings to get back to the top. Heck, if anything, Tyler fell off the map until she went back to Tammy and then did quite well at Nationals (“Return to Gambill helps Pierce regain confidence”). Was this because of the coach? Partly yes as Tammy is a great coach, but mostly because the skater was reenergized, found her passion and confidence and was able to skate to her potential.
A coach change generally reenergizes the athlete (the honey moon) but I do not think any other coach can coach Karen up to the next level. Tammy has done a great job and will continue to do so as long as Karen remains positive, open minded and pushes herself to be great. Gracie may be in the same situation Tyler was years ago, burnt out with the same coach and down on her luck. After years of coaching Gracie, there is nothing Frank can say that Gracie has not already heard. She probably does need a change, not a change to help her get better but a change to help her change her environment, help her regain that passion, fire and confidence that once lit her belly. To hear the same thing Frank told her but to be told it by another coach will simply sound different, IMO. Look at Mariah, her change to Raf was not so much a change or improvement of her skating as she was there a very short period of time. She was already an accomplished skater, though she too was looking for herself. The short period of time with Raf, IMO, built her confidence, lit the fire she had years ago, but again, as good as Raf is, he is unable to get blood from a rock. He can, however, use his experience and greatness, to help manage Mariah and build her confidence once again if she remains open minded. The same thing will apply to Vivian.
 

topaz emerald

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
All this talk about great coaches (in CO,CA, etc) and skaters with potential (Ashley, Polina, Gracie, etc) reminds me of a conversation I had with an ISU Representative about the competitiveness of Ladies skating in the US, Russia and Japan. Yes, there are top coaches but lets not forget, until last year, there was also a drought for the US Ladies of about 10 years without a medal at worlds or the Olympics and this was the longest drought since 1924. I would think these same great coaches mentioned in earlier posts were coaching and had students during the last 10 years but unfortunately they themselves were unable to get the results that so many think they could now - I'm not sure if I understand this or not.
I for one think coaches can obviously make a difference, but for the most part, once a strong figure skater reaches the Jr level she should already know how to do all of the jumps and therefore no longer needs to be coached, per se; rather, the coach needs to be able to manage the athlete, work with the athlete’s mental state and tweak things along the road to greatness. Most top level Jr and Sr lady skaters have the ability, the talent, the potential, the skill and the understanding of how to execute the jumps and footwork, but the real challenge comes with choreographing a great program to highlight the skaters strengths and having the wherewithal to maximize points from start to finish and most importantly, it all rests with the skater who needs to have the mental strength to do it consistently (this is what is lacking in the US).
Alot has been said here about Karen and her current situation. Two years ago she was 3rd at Nationals, 2 years before that she was the Novice Champion and everyone thought she was wonderful. The in-between years she was riddled with injuries. Now, a lot of people are saying she should change coaches!? I think she should stay where she is as her coach is very good, the real question is whether Karen has the mental stamina and the individual fight to push thru her current short comings to get back to the top. Heck, if anything, Tyler fell off the map until she went back to Tammy and then did quite well at Nationals (“Return to Gambill helps Pierce regain confidence”). Was this because of the coach? Partly yes as Tammy is a great coach, but mostly because the skater was reenergized, found her passion and confidence and was able to skate to her potential.
A coach change generally reenergizes the athlete (the honey moon) but I do not think any other coach can coach Karen up to the next level. Tammy has done a great job and will continue to do so as long as Karen remains positive, open minded and pushes herself to be great. Gracie may be in the same situation Tyler was years ago, burnt out with the same coach and down on her luck. After years of coaching Gracie, there is nothing Frank can say that Gracie has not already heard. She probably does need a change, not a change to help her get better but a change to help her change her environment, help her regain that passion, fire and confidence that once lit her belly. To hear the same thing Frank told her but to be told it by another coach will simply sound different, IMO. Look at Mariah, her change to Raf was not so much a change or improvement of her skating as she was there a very short period of time. She was already an accomplished skater, though she too was looking for herself. The short period of time with Raf, IMO, built her confidence, lit the fire she had years ago, but again, as good as Raf is, he is unable to get blood from a rock. He can, however, use his experience and greatness, to help manage Mariah and build her confidence once again if she remains open minded. The same thing will apply to Vivian.

I agree, I don't think she should leave Tammy Gambill either. I think it boils down to individual coaching (mostly) and seeking the right choreographers I think can be the key difference to success. At this stage, she should have already fixed her flip jump, if that's the jump she doesn't have. The USFS gave her so many chances already at such a young age, even having her surpass Edmunds for the bronze medal at US Nationals. At this point, it's all up to her individual effort and whether her parents can still afford to pay for her skating.
 

topaz emerald

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
All this talk about great coaches (in CO,CA, etc) and skaters with potential (Ashley, Polina, Gracie, etc) reminds me of a conversation I had with an ISU Representative about the competitiveness of Ladies skating in the US, Russia and Japan. Yes, there are top coaches but lets not forget, until last year, there was also a drought for the US Ladies of about 10 years without a medal at worlds or the Olympics and this was the longest drought since 1924. I would think these same great coaches mentioned in earlier posts were coaching and had students during the last 10 years but unfortunately they themselves were unable to get the results that so many think they could now - I'm not sure if I understand this or not.
I for one think coaches can obviously make a difference, but for the most part, once a strong figure skater reaches the Jr level she should already know how to do all of the jumps and therefore no longer needs to be coached, per se; rather, the coach needs to be able to manage the athlete, work with the athlete’s mental state and tweak things along the road to greatness. Most top level Jr and Sr lady skaters have the ability, the talent, the potential, the skill and the understanding of how to execute the jumps and footwork, but the real challenge comes with choreographing a great program to highlight the skaters strengths and having the wherewithal to maximize points from start to finish and most importantly, it all rests with the skater who needs to have the mental strength to do it consistently (this is what is lacking in the US).
Alot has been said here about Karen and her current situation. Two years ago she was 3rd at Nationals, 2 years before that she was the Novice Champion and everyone thought she was wonderful. The in-between years she was riddled with injuries. Now, a lot of people are saying she should change coaches!? I think she should stay where she is as her coach is very good, the real question is whether Karen has the mental stamina and the individual fight to push thru her current short comings to get back to the top. Heck, if anything, Tyler fell off the map until she went back to Tammy and then did quite well at Nationals (“Return to Gambill helps Pierce regain confidence”). Was this because of the coach? Partly yes as Tammy is a great coach, but mostly because the skater was reenergized, found her passion and confidence and was able to skate to her potential.
A coach change generally reenergizes the athlete (the honey moon) but I do not think any other coach can coach Karen up to the next level. Tammy has done a great job and will continue to do so as long as Karen remains positive, open minded and pushes herself to be great. Gracie may be in the same situation Tyler was years ago, burnt out with the same coach and down on her luck. After years of coaching Gracie, there is nothing Frank can say that Gracie has not already heard. She probably does need a change, not a change to help her get better but a change to help her change her environment, help her regain that passion, fire and confidence that once lit her belly. To hear the same thing Frank told her but to be told it by another coach will simply sound different, IMO. Look at Mariah, her change to Raf was not so much a change or improvement of her skating as she was there a very short period of time. She was already an accomplished skater, though she too was looking for herself. The short period of time with Raf, IMO, built her confidence, lit the fire she had years ago, but again, as good as Raf is, he is unable to get blood from a rock. He can, however, use his experience and greatness, to help manage Mariah and build her confidence once again if she remains open minded. The same thing will apply to Vivian.

Yup, Mariah was already an accomplished skater not given her due early on in her career, in my opinion, by USFS. Raf may have helped her with her confidence, but ultimately it's all up to mariah to fight through whatever obstacles she's facing. The only thing he can possibly do for her is to get respect from international judges because of his reputation, and that might not even happen, to be honest.
 

KatGrace1925

Medalist
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
A lot of the Russian women have solid technique: Elena, Liza, and Anna rarely get edge calls or URs. Of the American women, I think only the same is true of Courtney. It seems that last season, a few of the women (like Ashley, Evgenia, and Gracie) were clever in where they placed their problematic jump but it appears that the tech panel caught on and they are getting at least "!" when they don't have the correct edge on takeoff.

This is true of Liza, I would not call Elena's technique good. Her jumps look unstable every time she lands and she double foots and underrotates often. Anna has had a few underrotations left uncalled in the past, she got called on one at NHK. My main point was that flaws are left uncalled based on consistency, Elena needs to be called more. Courteny's technique is bad to, she underrotates all the time. Gracie Gold has the best technique of the americans when she is on, except for on her flip. Yes Gracie, Ashley and Evgenia cleverly placed things but their edges still should have been called. There are other ladies in the field getting away with stuff that should be called. We need more technical callers who aren't politically motivated. The consistency bonus needs to be done away with and the judges need to judge what is in front of them without reference to other programs.
 
Last edited:

frida80

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Yup, Mariah was already an accomplished skater not given her due early on in her career, in my opinion, by USFS. Raf may have helped her with her confidence, but ultimately it's all up to mariah to fight through whatever obstacles she's facing. The only thing he can possibly do for her is to get respect from international judges because of his reputation, and that might not even happen, to be honest.


I think you have Mariah confused with another skater. Mariah had not accomplished hardly anything until this season. She only had only one JGP medal as an international medal. This year is the first time she's earned any medals from any senior competition. Last year she she placed 6th and 13th at her senior B competitions and 8th at SA. She's much better this year for sure. But she was definately not an accomplished skater.
 

topaz emerald

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
I think you have Mariah confused with another skater. Mariah had not accomplished hardly anything until this season. She only had only one JGP medal as an international medal. This year is the first time she's earned any medals from any senior competition. Last year she she placed 6th and 13th at her senior B competitions and 8th at SA. She's much better this year for sure. But she was definately not an accomplished skater.

But to be fair, she's been through a few US Nationals already. This, in my opinion, can make or break your career for US ladies. In my opinion, I just think she was held behind by judges just because she didn't have her 2nd triple yet. Maybe had they given her a boost like they did for Karen, she would have tried harder. But I am aware others do not agree. At 2015 US Nationals, she did a triple triple in her short program, it looked rotated completely to me. Karen also did a triple triple, an easier one, but somehow she scored 64 something to Mariah's 57 something. A 15 year old to an 18 year old? You think judges could have waited longer to prop Karen up, considering she struggled with injuries and growth spurt afterwards. Mariah was 18 at the time, I'm just saying if they would have supported her earlier, she would have tried harder. But she ended up 10th place??? after the short program.
 
Top