Sinitsina & Katsalapov: Road to Improvement | Golden Skate

Sinitsina & Katsalapov: Road to Improvement

gsk8

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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Country
United-States
In their second season as a team, Russia’s Victoria Sinitsina and Nikita Katsalapov made it to the 2016 European and World Figure Skating Championships, showing much improvement over their first season where they even failed to make the podium at nationals.

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“We watched the competition (at Worlds) and everyone has been skating great, really, really strong, and they’ve been skating together for a long time. They are proving it over and over. We are skating together in our second year and we already made it to the top ten,” Katsalapov said. “From there, we only want to move up. Everything is still to come for us. After a short break we’ll resume our work.”

What are your thoughts on their second season together?
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I enjoyed seeing their dances at Worlds. I think they've made great strides this season. Best of luck for next season!
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I particularly enjoyed their short dance at Worlds. From the article, it sounds as though they are now comfortable in Detroit. How difficult it must have been to start a new partnership in an unfamiliar country. Their hard work really shows. Thank you for the article.
 

LadyB

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2016
I though they came far in a very short time and wish them best of luck next season.
As a Bobrova/Soloviev fan, and them back in the mix, I hope they feed of each other and the competition makes both teams show their best skills.
 

lauravvv

Medalist
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Country
Latvia
As a Bobrova/Soloviev fan, and them back in the mix, I hope they feed of each other and the competition makes both teams show their best skills.
I think we can't write Ilinykh/Zhiganshin off yet. They stagnated last season, but who knows what they can do with Shpilband as their coach (if they stay with him, of course, but it's very likely that they will). Zahorski/Guerreiro can improve too now when she is released and is a citizen of Russia, and they can train full time with new motivation.
 

uhh

Medalist
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
I still see some of the magical thinking they were coming up with last year. Of course it was better than the first year together, but to say that Worlds was their best of the season and they were happy with it? When they lost levels in the SD, made some big errors in the FD and fell behind teams they'd beaten before? It's sad that this is now acceptable and a good effort for Russian ice dance.

Even if B/S had been able to be at Worlds, S/K's efforts wouldn't have been enough to get the 3rd spot. Has it ever been the case before that the top 2 teams in Russia can't place high enough to do that before? 2010 - D/S & K/N skipped Worlds leaving the younger teams to try to keep the places, and 2015 had three teams making their debut at Worlds, one of which had skated together for less than a year and of course the team that would have been no. 1, B/S, were injured. But this year Russia was technically back to full strength in terms of having established teams to send to Worlds, and still there were so many teams far ahead of them.

S/K improved largely this year because they simplified their programs, (I'm still not over the transition into the set pattern being skating back, on a flat, hand in hand, with arms fully extended!) and while it worked at the start of the season because they were more ready than anyone else, you could really see the difference between them and the teams with more complex and challenging material by the time it got to Worlds. If they are to move up, they must be more creative (and Victoria must find more performance range) and not stick to Marina's default "we are so young and so in love" material, because while it worked in 2010, it certainly doesn't match up to what other teams are doing now.
 
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Marta25

Medalist
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Aren`t they taking Hip Hop classes? Maybe they are choosing that as their second rhythm for the SD, so that could be their chance to show some range. It was always a question how their programs would hold up in the second part of the season once the other teams managed to polish their programs. I guess, Zueva choose this strategy for them to get on the Russian team, but sacrificing a better placement at Euros and Worlds. Russian Ice Dance definitely remains interesting, its´s half-time to the next Olympics and there is still no clear #1.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
They're a nice team. But as you all know I find I/Z much more interesting to watch. I/Z didn't make the cut this year as they went for too much IMHO, without the coaching needed to master their material. S/K went in the opposite direction. I hope we see marked improvement in all the Russian ice dance teams next season, because their competitors will be kicking it into high gear next season.
 
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Bumdid

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
I think they improved so much this year and as long as they still have the motivation, I think they'll continue to improve for the following season. I've seen improvement from competition to competition and their twizzles actually got more synchronized at worlds. I hope they challenge themselves for the SD because I'm one of the people who think that their FD during the first season had a lot of potential and I think Vika can potentially do sexy pretty well.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
They moved from incompetent to competent and then they stalled and even regressed a little at worlds. In the current dire state of Russian ice dance they could be the national champions. Its sad but what they said about being together a short time and being 9th in the world its ok but when are they going to be world champs? So much of their worlds placement could be based on katsalapov being Olympic bronze medalist in ice dance.


I still see some of the magical thinking they were coming up with last year. Of course it was better than the first year together, but to say that Worlds was their best of the season and they were happy with it? When they lost levels in the SD, made some big errors in the FD and fell behind teams they'd beaten before? It's sad that this is now acceptable and a good effort for Russian ice dance.

Even if B/S had been able to be at Worlds, S/K's efforts wouldn't have been enough to get the 3rd spot. Has it ever been the case before that the top 2 teams in Russia can't place high enough to do that before? 2010 - D/S & K/N skipped Worlds leaving the younger teams to try to keep the places, and 2015 had three teams making their debut at Worlds, one of which had skated together for less than a year and of course the team that would have been no. 1, B/S, were injured. But this year Russia was technically back to full strength in terms of having established teams to send to Worlds, and still there were so many teams far ahead of them.

S/K improved largely this year because they simplified their programs, (I'm still not over the transition into the set pattern being skating back, on a flat, hand in hand, with arms fully extended!) and while it worked at the start of the season because they were more ready than anyone else, you could really see the difference between them and the teams with more complex and challenging material by the time it got to Worlds. If they are to move up, they must be more creative (and Victoria must find more performance range) and not stick to Marina's default "we are so young and so in love" material, because while it worked in 2010, it certainly doesn't match up to what other teams are doing now.

You are right in what you say. Especially about the high level teams in the world having so much more difficult and challenging programs. Sinitisina is not even close to being at the high level necessary to contend for he worlds title.

Russia shouldn't have a third spot in ice dance. The talent is not there and it would be an excuse for the Russian dance program not to go through radical reforms and reorientation to the North Americans model for success which is fully adapting to and embracing IJS.
 
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plushyfan

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Joined
Jun 27, 2012
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Hungary
The talent is not there and it would be an excuse for the Russian dance program not to go through radical reforms and reorientation to the North Americans model for success which is fully adapting to and embracing IJS.

The Americans model by Shpilband and Zueva... ;)
 

rosy14

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
They moved from incompetent to competent and then they stalled and even regressed a little at worlds. In the current dire state of Russian ice dance they could be the national champions. Its sad but what they said about being together a short time and being 9th in the world its ok but when are they going to be world champs? So much of their worlds placement could be based on katsalapov being Olympic bronze medalist in ice dance.




You are right in what you say. Especially about the high level teams in the world having so much more difficult and challenging programs. Sinitisina is not even close to being at the high level necessary to contend for he worlds title.

Russia shouldn't have a third spot in ice dance. The talent is not there and it would be an excuse for the Russian dance program not to go through radical reforms and reorientation to the North Americans model for success which is fully adapting to and embracing IJS.

The "North American model" is made by Shpilband and Zoueva and even the coaches of the Junior champions are Russians. And anyway the North Americans have been beated for two consecutive years by a French couple, trained by French-Canadians.
It's possible that S/K would have finished better if they had skated their SD in a more advanced group. However the dance competition at these Worlds was even more strange than last year, when it was strange a lot.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
To be honest I thought they were lucky to score as highly as they did. On the night I thought S/B were better. Their placement was objective, IMHO.
 

gmyers

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Mar 6, 2010
The "North American model" is made by Shpilband and Zoueva and even the coaches of the Junior champions are Russians. And anyway the North Americans have been beated for two consecutive years by a French couple, trained by French-Canadians.
It's possible that S/K would have finished better if they had skated their SD in a more advanced group. However the dance competition at these Worlds was even more strange than last year, when it was strange a lot.

The coaching success of Russians is indisputable and phenomenal! So why is Russia itself falling so far behind in dance? Its got to be the environment in russia and the view of ice dance in Russia that must be the problem. The fact that the french train in Canada by Canadians also says something. All the russian coaches in Russia could do what the Russian coaches in North America do. Just use the IJS as a guide to make the programs and not do as zhulin did and use his dreams!
 

Jammers

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Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
The Americans model by Shpilband and Zueva... ;)

Yes Shipilband and Zueva might be Russian but they were in the US where they had the freedom to start a new way of training without having to stick to the old model of Russian Ice Dancing and to understand the IJS system and perfect it.
 

katha

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
I think they are right to take the positives from this season and be proud of the strides they made. They also saw what still needs improvement and I'm sure they'll work on that. I think the state of Russian ice dance in general is something that's not really the particular "fault" of any pair, but a systemic issue. Though I agree that all of them (S/K, I/Z, B/S, S/B...you name it) to some degree show the various problems the Russian dance program faces. What I do find slightly concerning is the seeming tendency of trying to search for some sort of "saviour" (IMO that's the general tenor of various interviews from coaches and officials), instead of looking at the system as a whole and why it might not be producing the results they want.

What happened towards the end of the season with SinKats' programs petering out was rather expected IMO. The FD in particular was a generic piece of fluff constructed to establish them after a bad first season. I still think Marina was right to do it like that, if they hadn't made it out of Nationals for a second year that might have been a potential career killer. 4th at Euros was a good result, 9th at Worlds probably not what they hoped for, but a top ten finish in itself isn't a terrible placement. In the context of Russian ice dance and B/S missing it's not so hot, but this is once again something that goes beyond SinKats and into what's going on with Russian ice dancing in general.

Of course they need to improve further next year, if they can do it nobody knows. I don't know either, I hope so because I like them, but I'm no fortune teller. It's pretty clear to me that they'll attempt something more challenging this year when it comes to programs, since I'm sure that Zoueva knows she won't get away with those generic, safe choices for a second season. It'll be interesting to see how they'll fare, I wish them much luck and success. :)
 

rosy14

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
The coaching success of Russians is indisputable and phenomenal! So why is Russia itself falling so far behind in dance? Its got to be the environment in russia and the view of ice dance in Russia that must be the problem. The fact that the french train in Canada by Canadians also says something. All the russian coaches in Russia could do what the Russian coaches in North America do. Just use the IJS as a guide to make the programs and not do as zhulin did and use his dreams!

The French train in Canada with a French, Hageunauer, who used to train the French-Canadian Lauzon-Dubreuil. I see very little North American school and a lot of European ( French) school (btw I don't like it).
Quite probably Russia has falled behind because most of its best coaches left, and the Government is not putting lot of money in the dancing sectors, preferring pairs and singles.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
The French train in Canada with a French, Hageunauer, who used to train the French-Canadian Lauzon-Dubreuil. I see very little North American school and a lot of European ( French) school (btw I don't like it).
Quite probably Russia has falled behind because most of its best coaches left, and the Government is not putting lot of money in the dancing sectors, preferring pairs and singles.

They do train with Hageunauer but also D/L who take all their years being competitors for Canada to their coaching and the views of Canada with regard to ice dancing.

Even if all the best coaches left russia the ISU puts out material saying how to get level 4's and all that's necessary is to be literate and to understand the key to success is all level 4 elements. Russia doesn't view ice dance that way. It doesn't matter if all the best coaches were in Russia. What's winning worlds isn't ice dance to so many in Russia. They do want success in ice dance but want to bend the judges to them and not follow IJS. Its impossible and what's likely is going to happen is it just gets worse and worse or everyone wakes up and says the tarasova model is finished.
 

rosy14

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
They do train with Hageunauer but also D/L who take all their years being competitors for Canada to their coaching and the views of Canada with regard to ice dancing.

Even if all the best coaches left russia the ISU puts out material saying how to get level 4's and all that's necessary is to be literate and to understand the key to success is all level 4 elements. Russia doesn't view ice dance that way. It doesn't matter if all the best coaches were in Russia. What's winning worlds isn't ice dance to so many in Russia. They do want success in ice dance but want to bend the judges to them and not follow IJS. Its impossible and what's likely is going to happen is it just gets worse and worse or everyone wakes up and says the tarasova model is finished.

Unfortunately I'm afraid that in ice dancing it's not a matter of levels, GOE, etc, but much more judges' preferences based on personal criteria, more or less bona fide. Only on this way one can undertand some recent results. However I'm not Russian, nor a fan of their couples. I simply believe it's too dofficult in ice dancing, except for very experienced people, to judge the situation of some skaters, schools, coaches, etc.
 
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