Lakernik hints at changes to IJS

Snow63 · Aug 25, 2016

Source: http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2016/08/16/196138174

P.S. Sorry if this was posted and discussed already. I didn't find the topic for it.

Li'Kitsu · Aug 25, 2016

Thank you very much Snow for posting this!

Honestly, I don't like pretty much anything I just read... make the competitions shorter? Sounds like they will let less skaters participate in the first place, which would be a huge blow for the lesser known skaters and those from more developing countries regarding FS. Ultimate Team skating? Don't we have enough of these things already? FS isn't a team sport, stop trying to make that a thing.

And while generally differentiating more between SP and LP again sounds like a good thing, I'm not a fan at all of this "one artistic and one technical program". Yes, I'm greedy, I still want programs were skaters give us both. And really, with the programs distinguished like that, there is no real overall winner, because we know then who can do both separately, but actually combining them would mean in the same performance. Let alone the fact that the judging in an mostly 'artistic' event will be beyond fan war inducing...

sarama · Aug 25, 2016

I really hope they manage to make the scoring more consistent, because right now is totally not (even in the same competition!). Regarding the two different kind of programs I think I could get used to that: more medals for everyone:yes2:, the possibility of being the top contender even if you are not a jumping machine, and the chance to see skaters really put effort in their choreography: I've been thinking for a while on how I would love to see people like Yuzuru do a program without all the crazy jumps and transitions, because (while I do enjoy his programs), I think in exhibitions he shows such a quality of edges and movement and fluidity, that it's a pity we can't see it in a competitive program.

Snow63 · Aug 25, 2016

Li'Kitsu said:
Honestly, I don't like pretty much anything I just read... make the competitions shorter? Sounds like they will let skaters participate in the first place, which would be a huge blow for the lesser known skaters and those from more developing countries regarding FS.

Unfortunately, he's right. FS events are way too long for general audience. And most TV channels can't afford to show FS for up to 12 hours per day (during major competition). Not to mention it's pretty hard for commentators too. Something should be done, maybe stretch competitions for more days or something.

Marin · Aug 25, 2016

sarama said:
I really hope they manage to make the scoring more consistent, because right now is totally not (even in the same competition!). Regarding the two different kind of programs I think I could get used to that: more medals for everyone:yes2:, the possibility of being the top contender even if you are not a jumping machine, and the chance to see skaters really put effort in their choreography: I've been thinking for a while on how I would love to see people like Yuzuru do a program without all the crazy jumps and transitions, because (while I do enjoy his programs), I think in exhibitions he shows such a quality of edges and movement and fluidity, that it's a pity we can't see it in a competitive program.

I think Hanyu's Chopin is a good example how can one combine fluidity, edges and movement adding crazy transitions and jumps perfectly.. It is possible after all.
.......................................
Dividing programs to technical and artistic ... just big no, I hope it will never happen. Re timing: something should be done, maybe make competition time 5 days instead of 3 or so?! but it should be solved really.

alia jackson · Aug 25, 2016

What if they leave the current singles as is and create another category Ice Dance singles :think:. This will also allows skaters to have a longer competitive career where singles skaters can make transitions from the current category to Ice Dance singles.

mcq · Aug 25, 2016

Snow63 said:
Unfortunately, he's right. FS events are way too long for general audience. And most TV channels can't afford to show FS for up to 12 hours per day (during major competition). Not to mention it's pretty hard for commentators too. Something should be done, maybe stretch competitions for more days or something.

It is not like the broadcasting station shows everything from start to finish anymore, most already has cut only to the final group or final 2 group. FS took so long because the ice resurfacing itself took about 1 hour in-between. If they only show 2 final groups it should only be about 2hrs for FS and even less for SP, which is completely reasonable for any sports. There is no need to fundamentally change anything just to make competition "shorter".

Crossover · Aug 25, 2016

Alexander Lakernik :rolleye:

Snow36, AFAIK, a full quote of entire articles is not allowed here because of concerns over copyright infringement. The link and a brief summary would be enough. I think you need to redact the OP.

Snow63 · Aug 25, 2016

mcq said:
It is not like the broadcasting station shows everything from start to finish anymore, most already has cut only to the final group or final 2 group. FS took so long because the ice resurfacing itself took about 1 hour in-between. If they only show 2 final groups it should only be about 2hrs for FS and even less for SP, which is completely reasonable for any sports. There is no need to fundamentally change anything just to make competition "shorter".

In Russia they show everything. From first to last skaters. At least last season they did it. And Tarasova complained about how tiring it was for her to comment, she commented all the disciplines. Besides, I want to watch everyone, why should I watch only 2 last groups? But it is too long, you need to spend basically the whole day (or even night). I don't think it's okay. So I think there is a need, you think otherwise no big deal.

Snow63 · Aug 25, 2016

alia jackson said:
What if they leave the current singles as is and create another category Ice Dance singles :think:. This will also allows skaters to have a longer competitive career where singles skaters can make transitions from the current category to Ice Dance singles.

If they will create singles ID, there will be very small chance for any singles skaters to be successful there.

4everchan · Aug 25, 2016

^^ might as well create single pairs :rofl:

Snow63 · Aug 25, 2016

4everchan said:
^^ might as well create single pairs

By the way, singles ID already exist :biggrin:

But not under ISU.

4everchan · Aug 25, 2016

i know

Snow63 said:
By the way, singles ID already exist But not under ISU.

mcq · Aug 25, 2016

Snow63 said:
In Russia they show everything. From first to last skaters. At least last season they did it. And Tarasova complained about how tiring it was for her to comment, she commented all the disciplines. Besides, I want to watch everyone, why should I watch only 2 last groups? But it is too long, you need to spend basically the whole day (or even night). I don't think it's okay. So I think there is a need, you think otherwise no big deal.

Well, I understand. But this is broadcasting problems. I don't see the need to change IJS rules just to accommodate broadcasting issues. Problem is ISU trying to make programs shorter, warm ups shorter, prep time for skater shorter, everything shorter when in fact it would only save them 30 minutes max in total while they make skaters rushed and programs too packed, which will affect the overall performance. If the problem is the commentator being too tired, they could overcome it by alternating commentators like what BESP did.
You said yourselves the problem is for the general audience. general audience probably would not be aware of skaters outside the top 12 while FS enthusiasts do. GP series would generally last 2-3 hrs for each discipline. Normal. Tennis, Football, etc took similar period of time and during Grand Slam there would probably be 12 hours of tennis a day on sports channel. Problem only persists during WC and olympics, when in fact national TV station rarely broadcast full event in the first place. I just don't really see why they need to change the IJS just for the sake of shortening broadcast. There are other ways; like split the competitions to 5 days instead of trying to pack it in 3-4 days or lessen the amount of people going into FS. What they propose to do is removing choreo sequence, no of jumps etc just for the sake of making everything "shorter" and honestly I am not fond of it. :noshake:

Snow63 · Aug 25, 2016

mcq said:
Well, I understand. But this is broadcasting problems. I don't see the need to change IJS rules just to accommodate broadcasting issues. Problem is ISU trying to make programs shorter, warm ups shorter, prep time for skater shorter, everything shorter when in fact it would only save them 30 minutes max in total while they make skaters rushed and programs too packed, which will affect the overall performance. If the problem is the commentator being too tired, they could overcome it by alternating commentators like what BESP did.
You said yourselves the problem is for the general audience. general audience probably would not be aware of skaters outside the top 12 while FS enthusiasts do. GP series would generally last 2-3 hrs for each discipline. Normal. Tennis, Football, etc took similar period of time and during Grand Slam there would probably be 12 hours of tennis a day on sports channel. Problem only persists during WC and olympics, when in fact national TV station rarely broadcast full event in the first place. I just don't really see why they need to change the IJS just for the sake of shortening broadcast. There are other ways; like split the competitions to 5 days instead of trying to pack it in 3-4 days or lessen the amount of people going into FS. What they propose to do is removing choreo sequence, no of jumps etc just for the sake of making everything "shorter" and honestly I am not fond of it. :noshake:

And that's what I said.
TV broadcasting is extremely important for any sport. Broadcast two groups couple times in a whole season is not enough for this sport to become more popular. FS in this state and form is not very TV friendly, Lakernik is 100% right on this, and that's why what we see is last two groups only and not the whole event. And sometimes not even live, because they're cutting off inbetween parts. There are two ways to make it more interesting: make it more dynamic (one of the ways is to make it shorter, but there are other ways too), and make it more understandable for general audience. And I think they will follow both these directions in the future.

Sorrento · Aug 25, 2016

Broadcasting figure skating on TV is a very old fashioned and let's be frank- very tiresome not only for commentators but for those who has to watch and listen to lots of unnecessary bs instead of music during the actual skates. I think Lakernik and Co need to learn that Internet and Live stream would be the best solution for both the fans of the sport and athletes. If they arrange a Live stream with a small fee available everywhere with no geoblock they would actually learn a lot about their actual audience worldwide. They also need to have an option of watching the recorded competitions with no limit for everyone too. I'd imagine this service to have an option for commentary, different languages, in time when they actually develop it properly and hire people. They will also learn a lot of who is feasible and if commentary is feasible at all at this day and time.

As per TV- if they can't afford to cover competitions live- do recorded programs, no pain with that. Lots of us are busy working or sleeping during competitions, no big deal. I really hate the recorded competitions shown on Eurosport during the last couple of sesons though, they cut and show whoever they want and they don't even keep the sence and the atmosphere of the actual competition. In all it looks like a sports TV show with videoclips and scores at the end. I really hate it.

My personal best experience watching the figure skating competitions was when it was streamed on ISU channel GPF 2014 in Barcelona. I watched the entire coverage and felt the happiest fan on Planet Earth.

mcq · Aug 25, 2016

Snow63 said:
And that's what I said.
TV broadcasting is extremely important for any sport. Broadcast two groups couple times in a whole season is not enough for this sport to become more popular. FS in this state and form is not very TV friendly, Lakernik is 100% right on this, and that's why what we see is last two groups only and not the whole event. And sometimes not even live, because they're cutting off inbetween parts. There are two ways to make it more interesting: make it more dynamic (one of the ways is to make it shorter, but there are other ways too), and make it more understandable for general audience. And I think they will follow both these directions in the future.

If his concern is popularity, changing the rules or making things shorter will do little to attract audience. FS is highly popular in Japan despite broadcast time or rules because they have star skaters who dominate the sports. It was super popular in Korea during the time Yuna Kim is still around, she even became the highest paid celebrity there. People will care about any sport as long as their countrymen dominate. Like, how many people from US who watch gymnastics during olympics actually don't really understand how the scoring works but watch it anyway just to see Simone biles winning everything? Same can be said about FS in Europe or US. Other case would be how football (soccer) is unpopular in US despite it being huge everywhere else. If anyone in ISU really wants FS to be big in USA again then they can tell USFSA to find star skaters who will win everything. :thumbsup:

Sam-Skwantch · Aug 25, 2016

I consider myself to be more than just a casual US fan but I must admit that I rarely have the patience and time to watch all or even most of the free skates anymore. I prefer the SP and can watch every skater perform their SP.

Shayuki · Aug 25, 2016

I actually had this idea that I got when I was watching the diving competitions during Rio olympic.

What if you, for instance, added a third program(Or, I guess in the worst case, replaced the short program), where you can only do at most single jumps(The most difficult being 1A) and basic spins, but increased the GOE range to, say, -7 to +7? It's a simple concept, but here a lot of attention would be paid to the quality of the basic elements rather than to who can quad and who cannot. This also would leave more room for the artistic aspects.

I'd be interested in seeing that but am not sure how it could be made to fit into the competition schedules.

YesWay · Aug 25, 2016

I hope they put more thought into this, than they did for the change to the media/format used for skaters' music! They had to revert that change for a shockingly large (to me) number of reasons - some which I would have thought were rather obvious, if they'd really thought about it

I'd cautiously welcome changes to better distinguish SP and LP... but not if it's essentially a return to "compulsory figures", just using modern elements. Which is what the "more technical" + "more artistic" split sounds like (only worse). I think that would be a step in the wrong direction - I mean, didn't they get rid of compulsory figures because nobody wanted to watch that?!

And also, what makes figure skating so great as a sport for me, is the combination of technical skill and athleticism, with artistry and expression, all in one program. The way top skaters are able to express emotions, tell a story, move the audience etc while performing technically difficult elements.

So I personally wouldn't want to see figure skating split into two "watered-down" parts, neither of which shows the greatness of the two in combination... that would be "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" to me... :-/

Regarding shortening the competitions... I don't really see any need for that. The top skaters tend to be in later groups. More casual viewers don't have to sit in their seats until then, and TV typically only shows the later groups or highlights anyway. Use streaming (with on-demand replays) for the more "serious" fans who aren't there in person, but want to see everything.

The biggest competitions (world's and Olympics) could perhaps use some kind of "twin" judging panels like they did for rhythmic Gymnastics at Rio, to speed things up and reduce judge fatigue?

Lakernik hints at changes to IJS

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.

Li'Kitsu

sarama

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.

Marin

"Efforts tell lies, but it will not be in vain."

alia jackson

mcq

Crossover

All Hail the Queen

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.

4everchan

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.

4everchan

mcq

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.

Sorrento

mcq

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Shayuki

YesWay

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