Status of Russian pairs 2016-2017

gmyers · Sep 3, 2016

So Russian pairs were 4th, 5th and 6th at 2017 worlds and need quad throws, quad twists, and harder triple jumps to match the new level.

So where are V/T in their quad training?
Where are S/K in their quad training?

Can K/S be injury free for a season and use their quads to establish themselves again.

T/M had a quad twist a but abandoned it but need to bring it back so where are they?

A/R have potential.

hugo · Sep 4, 2016

gmyers said:
So where are V/T in their quad training?

nowhere. Trankov said it clearly, he won't train the quads and risk health of his wife.

Sugarpova · Sep 4, 2016

hugo said:
nowhere. Trankov said it clearly, he won't train the quads and risk health of his wife.

& I applaud him for that
He's seen Bazarova's & many more injuries & made the right choice

gmyers · Sep 4, 2016

hugo said:
nowhere. Trankov said it clearly, he won't train the quads and risk health of his wife.

But what about quad twists? I know he said that about jumps but what about twists? I don't remember twists being part of that interview. If they are against all quads they should announce their retirement unless they want to lose world and Olympic golds.

Are V/T only a "hope for bronze" team?

LRK · Sep 4, 2016

Judging by their interviews, I gather Kavaguti/Smirnov will be focusing most on recovery after Yuko's injury, and getting back into competition again. I'm guessing they'll be addding in tech only gradually, but I suppose time will tell.

HermioneG · Sep 4, 2016

Well, today there was a show in Moskow where VT, SK and TM skated. SK and TM fell from throws (but Mozer said recently that SK are still learning the quad), VT judging from IG's even didn't try to do any Th or Tw or jumps, and the last info from Max was that Tanya is still injured (after show in China, it was in mid-august). So at least team Mozer doesn't look promising at the moment.

lavoix · Sep 5, 2016

Stolbova/Klimov was training the quad, and apparently they were ready to throw it at Europeans last year, but Klimov got injured and that sort of screwed the whole season for them.

I'm not quite sure that a quad throw is essential. S/K for instance were more than capable of winning last year based on their difficulty, but just aren't a consistent pair.

moriel · Sep 5, 2016

I´m happy that all teams have a rather uncertain situation, so my beloved A/R have a chance of going to major competitions and we see more of them <3

Imho...
V/T - while i love them, they should skate in shows only. Not worth rushing for more wins and getting injured in process
S/K - imho their main goal is to remain injure-free this season - they are more than capable of getting good scores without quads.
T/M - meh, before getting a quad, they should get some programs that will make them stand out. They are currently pretty generic and forgettable, and having some cool programs would make more difference.
K/S - just stay healthy <3

gmyers · Sep 5, 2016

HermioneG said:
Well, today there was a show in Moskow where VT, SK and TM skated. SK and TM fell from throws (but Mozer said recently that SK are still learning the quad), VT judging from IG's even didn't try to do any Th or Tw or jumps, and the last info from Max was that Tanya is still injured (after show in China, it was in mid-august). So at least team Mozer doesn't look promising at the moment.

Has Mozer gone downhill as a coach like a skater can go downhill? Is she now the pairs version of Linichuk. What will it take all the teams to leave her?

lavoix said:
Stolbova/Klimov was training the quad, and apparently they were ready to throw it at Europeans last year, but Klimov got injured and that sort of screwed the whole season for them.

I'm not quite sure that a quad throw is essential. S/K for instance were more than capable of winning last year based on their difficulty, but just aren't a consistent pair.

Quads are essential in pairs now. If you want to be world champion you need them. They can't cling to the past and stick their heads in the sand and be like "our way is right!" It's not. It's completely wrong.

LRK said:
Judging by their interviews, I gather Kavaguti/Smirnov will be focusing most on recovery after Yuko's injury, and getting back into competition again. I'm guessing they'll be addding in tech only gradually, but I suppose time will tell.

They need to be healthy. It's possible they are the only team with medal potential. Just like they were leading to Vancouver.

moriel said:
I´m happy that all teams have a rather uncertain situation, so my beloved A/R have a chance of going to major competitions and we see more of them <3

Imho...
V/T - while i love them, they should skate in shows only. Not worth rushing for more wins and getting injured in process
S/K - imho their main goal is to remain injure-free this season - they are more than capable of getting good scores without quads.
T/M - meh, before getting a quad, they should get some programs that will make them stand out. They are currently pretty generic and forgettable, and having some cool programs would make more difference.
K/S - just stay healthy <3

V/T -completely agree. He wants to retire so desperately. Time to go.
S/k- good scores for Maybe bronze or 4th or 5th. To win they need quads.
T/m. They have a quad twist but abandoned it. They do need better programs and a new coach because no team is more boring.

moriel · Sep 5, 2016

S/K - Yeah they do need quads to win (or maybe not, as when they are clean and on they get a very solid score even without quads). But quads won´t help them if they keep getting injured.

Just my imho, quads are only worth when a pair can do them without screwing themselves. This is why i don´t like K/S quads, maybe they would be healthier if they didnt.
I kinda worry about S/K in that regard.

T/M - have to agree, they are so extremely boring, poor guys =( Like, dunno, that toilet break moment because you know nothing exciting will happen.
They need some wow, whatever it is - could be programs, could be tech, whatever really.

gmyers · Sep 5, 2016

S/K need to be total perfection to get 1 point more than d/r at their best. They need higher base value that comes with quads to establish more separation. Then you have the Chinese pair s/h.

With T/M their being incredibly boring will force them to take risks and they should try Pina.

andromache · Sep 5, 2016

Kavaguti and Smirnov are my loves, but frequently they are sloppy in their elements, and their history of injury does them no favors. It'd be wonderful to see them win a World (or Olympic!) medal sometime before they retire, but it's hard to imagine them contending for gold. Disappointing we won't see new programs from them this season; Moskvina programs are art.

V/T at their best have the quality and the reputation to win without a quad. But Tatiana's injury and Max's lack of motivation makes it unlikely we'll see them at their best in the future. It's a shame Max can't turn his dislike for D/R's skating into some fire to make him want to train and to win!

Stolbova/Klimov have the ability to win when others with higher BV make mistakes, and we saw them up their difficulty last year and put down some stellar programs at GPF to win. Besides the lack of quads, they are a little held back by their weak twist (so are Kavaguti/Smirnov). Plus, these two don't have the charisma or connection of V/T, which means they have to be cleaner and better to get those high scores. And again, injury problems.

None of Mozer's teams have WOW programs, but Tarasova and Morozov have the worst. They're bland. Their programs are bland. They need a new choreographer to give them some interesting music and choreography and also to bring out some personality on the ice. It's a shame Mozer gives them the C-level material, because honestly these two have far more long-term potential them V/T or S/K. They have quality elements, aren't terribly inconsistent, and don't have a history of injury (that I know of, anyway). MOVE TO MOSKVINA, PLEASE.

Russian pairs may also be hurt by the fact that they so rarely compete against one another. The internal competition makes the Russian ladies great, but V/T and S/K in particular tend to avoid competing against one another. The external competition of D/R and S/H might not be enough to drive them.

gmyers · Sep 5, 2016

andromache said:
Kavaguti and Smirnov are my loves, but frequently they are sloppy in their elements, and their history of injury does them no favors. It'd be wonderful to see them win a World (or Olympic!) medal sometime before they retire, but it's hard to imagine them contending for gold. Disappointing we won't see new programs from them this season; Moskvina programs are art.

V/T at their best have the quality and the reputation to win without a quad. But Tatiana's injury and Max's lack of motivation makes it unlikely we'll see them at their best in the future. It's a shame Max can't turn his dislike for D/R's skating into some fire to make him want to train and to win!

Stolbova/Klimov have the ability to win when others with higher BV make mistakes, and we saw them up their difficulty last year and put down some stellar programs at GPF to win. Besides the lack of quads, they are a little held back by their weak twist (so are Kavaguti/Smirnov). Plus, these two don't have the charisma or connection of V/T, which means they have to be cleaner and better to get those high scores. And again, injury problems.

None of Mozer's teams have WOW programs, but Tarasova and Morozov have the worst. They're bland. Their programs are bland. They need a new choreographer to give them some interesting music and choreography and also to bring out some personality on the ice. It's a shame Mozer gives them the C-level material, because honestly these two have far more long-term potential them V/T or S/K. They have quality elements, aren't terribly inconsistent, and don't have a history of injury (that I know of, anyway). MOVE TO MOSKVINA, PLEASE.

Russian pairs may also be hurt by the fact that they so rarely compete against one another. The internal competition makes the Russian ladies great, but V/T and S/K in particular tend to avoid competing against one another. The external competition of D/R and S/H might not be enough to drive them.

Is it that because they are coached by the same person or don't want to show any weakness or what? Why don't v/t and s/k compete against each other more frequently. But the big problem is Trankov has Olympic gold and wants to move on personally more than win anything. It's not making sense why he doesn't quit. His being over it is hurting all pairs because the whole program can't move on. So you have the leader who is totally out it and it's bad for everyone.

Amei · Sep 5, 2016

gmyers said:
Is it that because they are coached by the same person or don't want to show any weakness or what? Why don't v/t and s/k compete against each other more frequently. But the big problem is Trankov has Olympic gold and wants to move on personally more than win anything. It's not making sense why he doesn't quit. His being over it is hurting all pairs because the whole program can't move on. So you have the leader who is totally out it and it's bad for everyone.

Umm....Are you trying to lay blame on Trankov for the underwhelming status of Russian pairs?

andromache · Sep 5, 2016

Amei said:
Umm....Are you trying to lay blame on Trankov for the underwhelming status of Russian pairs?

I don't think it's 100% inaccurate. For example, I think T/M would be receiving more attention and better programs from Mozer if they weren't being "held back" in favor of V/T and S/K.

gmyers · Sep 5, 2016

Amei said:
Umm....Are you trying to lay blame on Trankov for the underwhelming status of Russian pairs?

andromache said:
I don't think it's 100% inaccurate. For example, I think T/M would be receiving more attention and better programs from Mozer if they weren't being "held back" in favor of V/T and S/K.

Exactly! This is my point because it's also the federation. It has been seen many times. Kwan and US ladies. Plushenko and Russian men. This kind of thing has repeated itself because people have seen the resources and political power stay behind the most successful but inarguably fading veteran.

Amei · Sep 5, 2016

andromache said:
I don't think it's 100% inaccurate. For example, I think T/M would be receiving more attention and better programs from Mozer if they weren't being "held back" in favor of V/T and S/K.

That's not Trankov's fault, if T/M arent't getting the proper attention then it's Mozer's fault for either a) not properly dividing her time up between her teams or b) taking on more teams than she can handle; after Mozer it's T/M's fault, if they don't feel their coach is giving them enough attention then they should discuss it with her and if there is no improvement they need to decide if they can deal with being '3rd fiddle' in the group or find a new coach.

janav · Sep 7, 2016

I wonder, does Moskvina take on new students?

Sugarpova · Sep 7, 2016

moriel said:
I´m happy that all teams have a rather uncertain situation, so my beloved A/R have a chance of going to major competitions and we see more of them <3

I feel bad agreeing with that:hopelessness: I do want A/R to beat everyone...

Plus, these two don't have the charisma or connection of V/T,

I used to be of the same opinion but like last season showed they just need the right programms to shine (skating clean is in order obviously)

anyanka · Sep 7, 2016

andromache said:
None of Mozer's teams have WOW programs, but Tarasova and Morozov have the worst. They're bland. Their programs are bland. They need a new choreographer to give them some interesting music and choreography and also to bring out some personality on the ice. It's a shame Mozer gives them the C-level material, because honestly these two have far more long-term potential them V/T or S/K. They have quality elements, aren't terribly inconsistent, and don't have a history of injury (that I know of, anyway). MOVE TO MOSKVINA, PLEASE.

Isn't Tamara ready to retire though? I would say if they could move to Vasiliev so he can give them undivided attention. Seems Mozer is trying to split the difference between them, S/K and V/, and she's the go-to now with all Russian pairs. Although Robin has done well with them though. Maybe he wants to train them on his own full time?

Status of Russian pairs 2016-2017

gmyers

hugo

Sugarpova

#EmpressAirlines #SinKatsapologist

gmyers

LRK

HermioneG

lavoix

Match Penalty

moriel

gmyers

moriel

gmyers

andromache

gmyers

Amei

andromache

gmyers

Amei

janav

Sugarpova

#EmpressAirlines #SinKatsapologist

anyanka

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