Should JSF push Marin Honda as No.1?

Gee · Jan 2, 2017

For the upcoming Olympic year, I think JSF would be wise to push Marin as Japan's no.1 skater over Satoko.
Marin really has the special factor that is required to win the OGM, Satoko's jumps are just too small and lackluster....it would be wise to advocate for higher PCS for Marin as she is probably the best bet for Japan for the OGM.
If they stick with Satoko, they will only get a silver/bronze at best.

What is everyone's opinion on Marin?

olayolay · Jan 2, 2017

I adore Marin and think she has more x-factor than Satoko (however you quantify x-factor), but her jumps aren't that much bigger than Satoko's are. She gets less underrotations though.

rollerblade · Jan 2, 2017

Push... how?

I'd rather them let the skaters performances speak for themselves, not who will get more pageclicks or sell more seats. Pushing (whatever that means) just reeks of manipulation.

Gee · Jan 2, 2017

She gets good GOE on her jumps and I never recall her getting under rotations or edge-calls on her jumps in these last two seasons.

Cherryy · Jan 2, 2017

In my ideal world, federations wouldn't "push" skaters as their favourites cause they wouldn't have any power over skaters' scores. Everyone would be judged fairly on what they delivered on ice on that specific night and it wouldn't matter which country they represent. So I guess I wouldn't want to see that happening? :biggrin:

Meoima · Jan 2, 2017

Gee said:
She gets good GOE on her jumps and I never recall her getting under rotations or edge-calls on her jumps in these last two seasons.

She pre-rotates her jumps just a little less than Satoko. Ideal technique? No way.

Will JSF push Marin? Of course they will. But I don't think she can take over Satoko.

ioanna · Jan 2, 2017

I don't see how JSF is "pushing" Satoko to be the #1 Japanese lady to begin with :laugh:

Most of Satoko's achievements came from her own hard work. So no matter how much "pushing" JSF would be doing for Marin, neither that nor the "it-factor" would save her from popping jumps, falling, not getting her levels, etc. I know, I know, I'm a #hater.

andyjo24 · Jan 2, 2017

Honda is too fragile to be pushed. She always cries every performance. On the other hand, Satoko is a rock. You can never count her out

mcq · Jan 2, 2017

I love her, but in order for the pushing to be successful, she needs to skate clean consistently for it to happen. Just like what happen with Medvedeva last season, her PCS rise steadily from 31/67 at the beginning of the season to 34/72 by the end of the season (and even higher now) because she skate well consistently. Similar things happen to Maria Sotskova (whom Marin actually beat in junior worlds), because of her consistent performance. She also can't afford to lose levels on spins or steps, which happens often this season.
I don't think she needs pushing, the international judges seem to like her based on her scores in the past season. If only she skates clean at an international event, I have a feeling she will get similar or even higher PCS than Zagitova did.

blackey · Jan 2, 2017

I like Marin a lot. In my opinion she has the special thing that might make her become one of the best skaters of all time. and I believe one day she will become world champion. But for now, I don't know? her jumps seem a little bit weak compare to other top skaters. (not saying she is a bad jumper, it's just the bv she's having now is not enough to become the champion) and satoko is 3 times national champion, Marin never even make the podium yet, and I don't think this year she gonna make jr champion again. (the judges might give her a nice pcs, but the technical side just not enough against the russian)
I think next year, when she turns senior, the judge would give her a good pcs with no doubt, but she needs to get her jumps and get more stable than she is now. She has the chance, but we need to wait and see.

gladiolusc · Jan 2, 2017

If that's to happen, it would annoy me to no end. If Marin is going to be No. 1, let her prove it with hard work and results. I'm not saying she's not talented or not hardworking, and she's totally a star.

Satoko is already supremely under-the-radar for being a 3-peat national champion and silver medalists at both Grand Prix and World. :scratch2:

I wasn't even a fan of Satoko in the beginning (could be because she's so understated) and she just really won me over with consistent growth and improvement.

Marin · Jan 2, 2017

Marin is beautiful, she has star quality and amazing ss for her age but she has no consistency and she has been quite weak in handling pressure after winning JWC ,she did well only when expectations were low, her both JGP , Jrnats were underwhelming. Also we don't know if her puberty is finally over.. why would federation chose to "push" her as N1 when Miyahara even with her tiny and prerorated jumps & apparently now with robotic skating brings medals consistently.

Just bronze/silver medals- I find this part pretty amusing, 90 % of skaters would have been happy to bring that "just" bronze/silver at home. Why are you sure that Marin will bring only gold medals. Also people put a lot of pressure on that kid, I almost cried with her at JGP Yokahama , the girl looked totally fragile and vulnerable, this may easily ruin her . The pressure Japanese skaters are having in enormous , people putting so much expectations at this young age can be very alarming.
To be absolutely honest I find this kind of threads very sick and unhealthy.

turbulent · Jan 2, 2017

JSF doesn't have to push Marin, her own coach Mie Hamada is pushing her by admitting publicly she is her most talented student (over Miyahara and Kihira).

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...amadas-magic-touch-getting-results-attention/

It's case closed guys, Marin will be Japanese no 1 in Pyeongchang as she certainly deserves to. :yes:

andromache · Jan 2, 2017

The Olympics are sort of special, in that I don't think skaters have to be "pushed" for the scores to win. If you skate clean and have the ~magic~ the night of the event, you'll win. See: Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes, Adelina Sotnikova.

Marin can definitely bring the magic even without a series of consistent performances leading up to the Olympics. Regarding being able to make that ~magical Olympic moment~ happen, I think she's more naturally equipped than Satoko due to her artistry and charisma. Marin has the "it factor." But Satoko is far more likely to skate clean. Still, a clean Marin will beat a clean Satoko at the Olympics because of that "it factor." It matters more during the Olympics than any other competition, IMO. She doesn't need to be pushed to #1 to win.

turbulent · Jan 2, 2017

andromache said:
The Olympics are sort of special, in that I don't think skaters have to be "pushed" for the scores to win. If you skate clean and have the ~magic~ the night of the event, you'll win. See: Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes, Adelina Sotnikova.

Marin can definitely bring the magic even without a series of consistent performances leading up to the Olympics. Regarding being able to make that ~magical Olympic moment~ happen, I think she's more naturally equipped than Satoko due to her artistry and charisma. Marin has the "it factor." But Satoko is far more likely to skate clean. Still, a clean Marin will beat a clean Satoko at the Olympics because of that "it factor." It matters more during the Olympics than any other competition, IMO. She doesn't need to be pushed to #1 to win.

It's all that has to be said, basically. :thumbsup:

How many top skaters (Russians, Canadians, Americans, Caro?) have to mess up for Satoko to win?
3,4,5? How likely is it? Close to impossible.
Marin has the potential to win it by herself or with mistakes from 1-2 skaters.

ioanna · Jan 2, 2017

turbulent said:
It's all that has to be said, basically. :thumbsup:

How many top skaters (Russians, Canadians, Americans, Caro?) have to mess up for Satoko to win?
3,4,5? How likely is it? Close to impossible.
Marin has the potential to win it by herself or with mistakes from 1-2 skaters.

And you base these claims by what exactly?

ioanna · Jan 2, 2017

andromache said:
The Olympics are sort of special, in that I don't think skaters have to be "pushed" for the scores to win. If you skate clean and have the ~magic~ the night of the event, you'll win. See: Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes, Adelina Sotnikova.

Marin can definitely bring the magic even without a series of consistent performances leading up to the Olympics. Regarding being able to make that ~magical Olympic moment~ happen, I think she's more naturally equipped than Satoko due to her artistry and charisma. Marin has the "it factor." But Satoko is far more likely to skate clean. Still, a clean Marin will beat a clean Satoko at the Olympics because of that "it factor." It matters more during the Olympics than any other competition, IMO. She doesn't need to be pushed to #1 to win.

And Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes and Adelina Sotnikova had the "it factor"? More like, they beat the ones who had the "it factor" (Kwan, Lipnitskaya).

Also I think we're leaving equally talented skaters out of the equation to qualify for the Olympics; Higuchi, Mihara, Shiraiwa, Sakamoto... Marin's spot is not reserved yet.

andromache · Jan 2, 2017

ioanna said:
And Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes and Adelina Sotnikova had the "it factor"? More like, they beat the ones who had the "it factor" (Kwan, Lipnitskaya).

Also I think we're leaving equally talented skaters out of the equation to qualify for the Olympics; Higuchi, Mihara, Shiraiwa, Sakamoto... Marin's spot is not reserved yet.

These girls had the it factor on the night of, obviously.

Satoko could have it on the night of the Olympics too, but just from what I have watched of both Satoko and Marin, Marin typically brings a magic that I don't find in Satoko's. Which is subjective, of course, but Satoko's introversion has held her back scoring-wise, it seems. Satoko has worked her butt off to become a better performer, but it comes more naturally to Marin.

ETA: Extroverted, give-it-your-all performances win OGM in the ladies discipline. Skating safe or skating tentative does not.

ioanna · Jan 2, 2017

andromache said:
These girls had the it factor on the night of, obviously.

Satoko could have it on the night of the Olympics too, but just from what I have watched of both Satoko and Marin, Marin typically brings a magic that I don't find in Satoko's. Which is subjective, of course, but Satoko's introversion has held her back scoring-wise, it seems. Satoko has worked her butt off to become a better performer, but it comes more naturally to Marin.

I agree, some people are blessed with immediate charisma while others have to work their butt off to be recognized, but in this case it works in Satoko's favor. We've seen this girl skate under pressure numerous times and she always delivered. Marin on the other hand has been under the pressure of skating as the reigning Jr World Champion and she didn't manage it well. There definitely is a magic factor when we talk about the Olympics but most importantly there's the pressure factor and we haven't seen Marin pass this test so far.

andromache · Jan 2, 2017

ioanna said:
I agree, some people are blessed with immediate charisma while others have to work their butt off to be recognized, but in this case it works in Satoko's favor. We've seen this girl skate under pressure numerous times and she always delivered. Marin on the other hand has been under the pressure of skating as the reigning Jr World Champion and she didn't manage it well. There definitely is a magic factor when we talk about the Olympics but most importantly there's the pressure factor and we haven't seen Marin pass this test so far.

I agree. I believe in my original post I pointed out that while Marin has the "magic" advantage over Satoko, Satoko is far more likely to skate clean.

But Marin will be more likely to skate decently if all the pressure is on Satoko and off of Marin. If Marin makes it to the Olympics, hopefully she can a Tara Lipinski approach - enjoy the games, let all the pressure sit on someone else's shoulders, and skate her heart out. Really, it'd be great if all the first-year seniors (Marin, Polina, Alina, etc.) can enjoy the Olympics and let the older, more experienced ladies deal with the stress.

Should JSF push Marin Honda as No.1?

Gee

olayolay

rollerblade

Gee

Cherryy

Meoima

Match Penalty

ioanna

andyjo24

mcq

blackey

gladiolusc

Marin

"Efforts tell lies, but it will not be in vain."

turbulent

Match Penalty

andromache

turbulent

Match Penalty

ioanna

ioanna

andromache

ioanna

andromache

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