Should JSF push Marin Honda as No.1?

LiamForeman · Jan 11, 2017

I really haven't been following skating all that much, but I have to say after watching several vids of Marin Honda, I do not get this hype. I think Satoko is a strong SKATER, and I can overlook the teeny jumps. Granted Marin landed her seven 3s, but I don't see the star quality that some say. Where's the stretch, line, defined spin positions? Yes, Marin's FS to Beetlejuice was fun, but Oly Gold quality? Don't see it.

I'll say the Marin reminds me so much of a young Nagasu. The perkiness, the attention to the music....

mcq · Jan 13, 2017

FlattFan said:
Marin - if pushed correctly, her PCS should be high enough to be in contention. She just have to deliver the jumps. I think the chance of her going clean in both phases are not too low. I mean, outside of Satoko, she's about as consistent as the other girls like Wakaba, Mai, Yuna, Rika. They all make a few mistakes in both phases of the competition.
Wakaba - TES is no problem when she's clean. PCS is another story. She's constantly losing to #3, #4 Jr. Russian girls in PCS. This is a non-starter.
Mai - TES is also no problem. Probably the best jumper of the bunch. A little inconsistent. Low PCS. Can't compete with just TES as everyone is already doing 7 triples 2A in their LP. .

How is Mai inconsistent when she has 4 clean SP consecutively and 2 clean FS out of 4 competition (Nebelhorn, SA, CoC, Nats)? She is the closest thing Japan can get that could equal Miyahara/Medvedeva's level of consistency. If there is anyone Japan could push, it is her. Not because I think the others are undeserving or lesser skaters, but because she has been getting lower PCS internationally than her peers like Wakaba or Sotskova despite skating clean. Wakaba or Marin actually does not need the push imo, because so far I see that judges actually like them and had they skated clean the PCS and GOE will just come to them on their own.

ioanna · Jan 13, 2017

Speaking of Marin practicing quads, she said so herself in an interview yesterday. She says she's practicing quad salchow and quad loop.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x588ogj_氷上のニューヒロイン-15歳の素顔_sport

Meoima · Jan 13, 2017

ioanna said:
Speaking of Marin practicing quads, she said so herself in an interview yesterday. She says she's practicing quad salchow and quad loop.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x588ogj_氷上のニューヒロイン-15歳の素顔_sport

With or without harness? I am very curious about ladies with Quads. Miki tried but her quad was UR.

ioanna · Jan 13, 2017

Meoima said:
With or without harness? I am very curious about ladies with Quads. Miki tried but her quad was UR.

She doesn't specify. Just that she practices regularly.

FlattFan · Jan 13, 2017

mcq said:
How is Mai inconsistent when she has 4 clean SP consecutively and 2 clean FS out of 4 competition (Nebelhorn, SA, CoC, Nats)? She is the closest thing Japan can get that could equal Miyahara/Medvedeva's level of consistency. If there is anyone Japan could push, it is her. Not because I think the others are undeserving or lesser skaters, but because she has been getting lower PCS internationally than her peers like Wakaba or Sotskova despite skating clean. Wakaba or Marin actually does not need the push imo, because so far I see that judges actually like them and had they skated clean the PCS and GOE will just come to them on their own.

She stumbled her 3F in the SP at skate America.
In the LP, 2 big mistakes, one downgraded jump, one pop jump.

In CoC, clean SP but again, 2 big mistakes in the LP, a pop jump and a stumble on a jump.

Yeah, between competitions, she made about as many mistakes as the rest of them. Not counting the fact that she can't hit level 4 steps. This is why her TES isn't that good most of the time even with the 3lutz-toe combo and 3F solo.

samkrut@mail.ru · Jan 13, 2017

The name of the thread scratches my eyes - I just realized it seeing it every now and at the top of the edge. What about "Should Marin Honda push JSF to be No.1"?

mcq · Jan 13, 2017

FlattFan said:
She stumbled her 3F in the SP at skate America.
In the LP, 2 big mistakes, one downgraded jump, one pop jump.

In CoC, clean SP but again, 2 big mistakes in the LP, a pop jump and a stumble on a jump.

Yeah, between competitions, she made about as many mistakes as the rest of them. Not counting the fact that she can't hit level 4 steps. This is why her TES isn't that good most of the time even with the 3lutz-toe combo and 3F solo.

She does not fall or pop in her SP at SA though. Wakaba and Marin have no clean FS and they perform clean SP about twice this season. Wakaba also made multiple mistakes at NHK+Lombardia+JO and Marin at Asian Trophy and JGPs. So I don't know how you would group them in the same level of consistency. Btw, If you are talking about steps level, Marin is literally getting Level 2 stsq almost all season long in both her short and free and she also lost levels on spin.

FlattFan · Jan 13, 2017

mcq said:
She does not fall or pop in her SP at SA though. Wakaba and Marin have no clean FS and they perform clean SP about twice this season. Wakaba also made multiple mistakes at NHK+Lombardia+JO and Marin at Asian Trophy and JGPs. So I don't know how you would group them in the same level of consistency. Btw, If you are talking about steps level, Marin is literally getting Level 2 stsq almost all season long in both her short and free and she also lost levels on spin.

I know Marin and Wakaba make more mistakes, but when you are talking about consistency, 3 mistakes vs. 2 mistakes are about the same. They aren't going to get you on the podium.
If Mai is knocking out 7 triples consistently, there's a case for her to be pushed. As of right now, she's also another girl who is slightly more consistent, which doesn't say much.
Like college application, they ask, what's your hook? What is Mai's hook?

Satoko's hook is her consistency.
Marin's hook is her package.
Wakaba's? Not sure what it is.
Mai's also not sure what it is.

mcq · Jan 13, 2017

FlattFan said:
I know Marin and Wakaba make more mistakes, but when you are talking about consistency, 3 mistakes vs. 2 mistakes are about the same. They aren't going to get you on the podium.
If Mai is knocking out 7 triples consistently, there's a case for her to be pushed. As of right now, she's also another girl who is slightly more consistent, which doesn't say much.
Like college application, they ask, what's your hook? What is Mai's hook?

Satoko's hook is her consistency.
Marin's hook is her package.
Wakaba's? Not sure what it is.
Mai's also not sure what it is.

Who said anything about hook? I was simply saying that Mai is more consistent than Marin and Wakaba which is a fact while you said otherwise.
And get this. Neither Wakaba nor Marin need to be "pushed". Judges like them. Wakaba received ~66 PCS at TEB despite not skating clean. As a comparison this is the range Satoko get at 2015/2016 season despite skating clean and Medvedeva get early in her senior season. It is a shame that she failed to ride the momentum like Medvedeva did because her performance was subpar at NHK. Marin is still in junior and already receiving 60+PCS despite not skating clean too, and she received higher PCS than Wakaba at junior worlds.
The only thing holding them back from winning and gaining momentum is not the judges or the federation, but themselves. That is because they are unable to skate a clean back-to-back skate and get that reputation boost. Look at what happened to Medvedeva. Or Zagitova after 2 clean skate at her first JGP and JGPF.

FlattFan · Jan 13, 2017

mcq said:
Who said anything about hook? I was simply saying that Mai is more consistent than Marin and Wakaba which is a fact while you said otherwise.
And get this. Neither Wakaba nor Marin need to be "pushed". Judges like them. Wakaba received ~66 PCS at TEB despite not skating clean. As a comparison this is the range Satoko get at 2015/2016 season despite skating clean and Medvedeva get early in her senior season. It is a shame that she failed to ride the momentum like Medvedeva did because her performance was subpar at NHK. Marin is still in junior and already receiving 60+PCS despite not skating clean too, and she received higher PCS than Wakaba at junior worlds.
The only thing holding them back from winning and gaining momentum is not the judges or the federation, but themselves. That is because they are unable to skate a clean back-to-back skate and get that reputation boost. Look at what happened to Medvedeva. Or Zagitova after 2 clean skate at her first JGP and JGPF.

I have no doubt Wakaba is liked. Just like Miki is liked. They like her enough to make her competitive in a weak field. They don't like her when there are choices.
If Wakaba started skating clean all the time, it doesn't matter how pretty Marin is.
Like I said, the problem is these girls are are inconsistent, it's better to push for the girl who in the off chance she's clean, getting the biggest boost.

turbulent · Jan 15, 2017

FlattFan said:
Marin's hook is her package.

Marin IS a hook.

venx · Mar 17, 2017

Marin's short at Junior Worlds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLKV8KSt7_U

She is so "shamelessly" wonderful, I just laugh watching her. :laugh:

I watched the whole competition and literally, she stepped on the ice and LIGHTENED UP the arena - I don't know if the sun simply shone through the windows or additional lamps were turned on, but the reflections on her face appeared.
Apart from that, she knows how to use that beautiful smile of hers, Zueva fell in love with! Couple of looks right and left - gets the crowd in :shocked: mode, then the same in starting position at poor judges and the skate!
So free, elegant and effortless! Deep edges, soft ladings, neat spins - smiled through the last one like a boss! I've never seen her so relaxed and happy during and after the performance - she matured into one of the best skaters of today. :love:

Thank you Japan for Marin Honda! :bow:

FlattFan · Mar 17, 2017

Marin has star quality written all over. I think it's stupid JSF doesn't push her early enough. She should get massive PCS over any junior girls and she doesn't. Even if they give her 5 points lead in PCS, no one will cry foul. She's like a better Mao at that age (minus the 3A)

venx · Mar 17, 2017

0,5p advantage in is a joke, she should destroy Zagitova's PCS - and I like Alina!
Alina skated better at Nats and Marin delivered a masterpiece today, should have been properly rewarded for that. :noshake:

Barb · Mar 17, 2017

I prefer wait to the LP. But definitely the judges show us every damn competition that pcs are a joke.

Mathman · Mar 17, 2017

venx said:
Marin's short at Junior Worlds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLKV8KSt7_U

Thank you for posting this enchanting performance. :love:

chapis said:
I prefer wait to the LP. But definitely the judges show us every damn competition that pcs are a joke.

I am not sure about the judging of the PCSs. It can't just be a joke because we see the same inexplicable results every time. The judges are experienced, well-trained and competent, so I figure that the problem must be that the judges are going by different standards than we fans are. Marin Honda's performance was certainly a delight. But the judges seem immune to such general "second mark" considerations.

For one thing there seems to be a cap on what scores juniors are allowed to receive. This makes the PCSs bunch up for the top performers. It is hard to separate yourself from the others. The same is true at the senior level, especially for the men.

ioanna · Mar 17, 2017

Call me oversensitive but I believe Marin's performance at Jr Worlds could have been discussed in any other thread except this one, which should have been left where it ended in January.

JSF has a lot more to fix before "pushing" a skater. At the moment, their "current #1" is pressured to compete with an unhealed stress fracture so that her younger team mates, including Marin, can have a better chance to compete at the Olympics.

breadstal · Mar 17, 2017

Oh, this thread sadly came back to life :rolleye:

No need of pushing, Marin for sure doesn't need that. Obviously there's still lots to improve but she's just so talented and full or potential, she for sure can reach top level by herself, without pushing whatsoever. Can't wait for her stunning free tommorow :yahoo:

FlattFan · Mar 17, 2017

ioanna said:
Call me oversensitive but I believe Marin's performance at Jr Worlds could have been discussed in any other thread except this one, which should have been left where it ended in January.

JSF has a lot more to fix before "pushing" a skater. At the moment, their "current #1" is pressured to compete with an unhealed stress fracture so that her younger team mates, including Marin, can have a better chance to compete at the Olympics.

Their "current #1" is sadly a journey woman. While Satoko has a lot of quality programs, good to great everything non-jumps, her jumps are what holding her back from being World #1. I think everyone realizes her short coming.
Do I wish Alina/Polina have Satoko's programs and polished look? Hell yeah. They don't. She doesn't have their jumps.

Marin has it all. The moment she's turning senior, she should be Japan #1. They should push the hell out of her now. It's ridiculous that at her own national championship, her PCS is ridiciulous low compare to what she's bringing. Her PCS should be Satoko's level.

Should JSF push Marin Honda as No.1?

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