2017 Canadian Nats Senior Mens FS

Violet Bliss said:

Patrick practiced 3A3T during the warmup so I believe that was the intended combo in the program. However, when he downgraded his 4T into a 3T, 3T became one of his 2 repeated jumps so he could not do 3A3T if he was to avoid Zayaking, which he had the presence of mind to do. The second 3A would have been followed by a 2T instead. The interesting part is the placement of 2Lo which he switched from the 3F combo to the 3A combo. I can't say if that was the premeditated plan B but it jived with his tendency to do combo early rather than later, e.g. 4T3T in the SP unless the 4T is not stable, in which case, the late solo jump is turned into the required combo, with bonus for the 3T.

I agree with you that the 3A2T2Lo combo was a refreshing surprise as I'd not seen him do it before, or anyone else that I could recall. It was a beautiful part of a beautiful program.

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But that is incorrect vb. He did 4t/3t to open. He would zayak if he went with 3a/3t. I repeat. His repeated jumps are 4t and 3a. If he tags a 3t on the first quad he cannot repeat it after the triple axel if he does the quad toe. That would give him 4t/3t 3a 4t 3a/3t. See? He done a 2t all season after the 3a for the same reasons. The downgraded quad has nothing to do with that. Unless he doubles it. Then sure.

Eta. Also, not to be picky but the 2l usually comes with the lutz combo not the flip.

4everchan said:

But that is incorrect vb. He did 4t/3t to open. He would zayak if he went with 3a/3t. I repeat. His repeated jumps are 4t and 3a. If he tags a 3t on the first quad he cannot repeat it after the triple axel if he does the quad toe. That would give him 4t/3t 3a 4t 3a/3t. See? He done a 2t all season after the 3a for the same reasons. The downgraded quad has nothing to do with that. Unless he doubles it. Then sure.

Eta. Also, not to be picky but the 2l usually comes with the lutz combo not the flip.

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You're right. 3A3T would make 3T the third repeated jump if he already did 2 4T. So the 3A3T at practice was for fun, or show? Ah, that Patrick. And that Zayak.

psusanne said:

I would say he looks mighty fine on video as well. Haven't had the chance to watch him live, so I'm a bit jealous naturally. Anyway, very good skate, men's is so very exciting nowadays!

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Totally. I think his skating is better captured live simply because he moves in all directions compared to some others who go from one end to the other. Ot was truly mesmerozong to watch him live. I was already a fan but had never seen him live. I was amazed.

Violet Bliss said:

You're right. 3A3T would make 3T the third repeated jump if he already did 2 4T. So the 3A3T at practice was for fun, or show? Ah, that Patrick. And that Zayak.

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As i said earlier i think it is for avoiding issues like at gpf. If the first quad does not feel right for a 3t and he does a 2t he can put the 3t on the axel in bonus point time. However, i think his wish is to get the first big combo early. Having back up plans is good. Now the 2loop with the 3a. Gosh i love it. I hope that is there to stay.

4everchan said:

Totally. I think his skating is better captured live simply because he moves in all directions compared to some others who go from one end to the other. Ot was truly mesmerozong to watch him live. I was already a fan but had never seen him live. I was amazed.

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I remember your impression of watching live event last fall being that figure skating was basically a sport rather than an art. So there was a very slight concern on my part that you might find Patrick disappointing too in person and not living up to hype and expectation. Ah, Patrick is indeed even more amazing live as experienced by many. I remember how he was instantly so special and standing out even with the likes of kurt and Jeff when I watched him in SOI.

And have I been proven right too about V/M's new programs being sure to progress and mature into the season? I'm glad too you enjoyed and were impressed by Nic, Eladj, Kaetlyn, et al to understand their appeal. Ah, and then there is the dreamboat Andrew. All in all, I believe you're happy to have gone to this Nationals, right?

It's been said often that, at life's end, a person only regrets what he has not done but not what he has done. You can tick one thing off your bucket list now.

4everchan said:

so ... i just watched the ctv on youtube...

now i can finally say : you always need to watch a skater in person... but for Patrick.. OMG there is a world of difference...patrick's skating is 1000000 times better in person... and that's not true for everyone... it's a question of camera angle... and speed i think.

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Yes, I've seen him live and it's there that you can really see how much better his skating skills are than all others. TV is a bit of a leveller in that respect, though you can still appreciate his undeniable quality on-screen as well. But it's such a special experience to watch him live.

TGee said:

Joanne MacLeod and her FS team at Champs have to be answerable for this....We see the problem in all of her skaters except those that developed SS elsewhere and then came to them for jumps....And looking at Kevin and Nam, it just isn't something that can be addressed "later" in their development....if it were easy to catch up, they'd have done so by now....

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I'm always sad when I see someone with much potential with McLeod. From Leung to Reynolds to Sandhu, she never, ever addresses the basic skating skills of her students and they are all sub-par unless they learned them elsewhere. And now she's got the very promising Sarah Tamura, who has the same basic skating problem as all the others. McLeod's students continue to crawl across the ice, year after year. With their lacking skating skills they always hit a ceiling internationally, and even nationally. It's so frustrating to watch and one has to wonder why nobody has intervened in all these years. Her students get so far up the ladder, then no further.

How come the men's results page appears to be incomplete? http://skatecanada.ca/results/2017CDNS/2017CDNSSeniorMenFPDRO.pdf

I've been focused on US Nationals all weekend, but I just want to see how the guys all did in Canada....

andromache said:

How come the men's results page appears to be incomplete? http://skatecanada.ca/results/2017CDNS/2017CDNSSeniorMenFPDRO.pdf

I've been focused on US Nationals all weekend, but I just want to see how the guys all did in Canada....

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You are looking at the protocol for the senior men's FS.... the results pdf is here ...

Patrick Chan and Nic Nadeau had FS that will stay in all our minds for a good long time...suggest you put priority on looking at those if you have any appetite left for watching skating.

TGee said:

You are looking at the protocol for the senior men's FS.... the results pdf is here ...

Patrick Chan and Nic Nadeau had FS that will stay in all our minds for a good long time...suggest you put priority on looking at those if you have any appetite left for watching skating.

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Yeah....this results page for me is showing the event as halfway completed, with zero LP scores for over half of the men.

The LP protocol doesn't have Nam or Patrick or Kevin (or others) on it. I wanted to see how well they did (or didn't) do by looking at the protocol. Is this really only happening for me? (Am I stupid or something? lol) Thank you for your recommendations though!

This is the first time that I write something so long in this forum, I am Spanish I go to a translator so I do not know very well how the thing will come out ... Ok, this is my opinion, I ask, please be generous with me

After the final of the Grand Prix, I still do not understand what happened in that free program in Marseille, Patrick Chan is crowned for the ninth time Canadian Champion ... Extraordinary Patrick !! He also cleared the doubts that could be in his destiny demonstrating that there is still much Chan to enjoy, his magnificent free, a spectacular first part and the second already more like assuring but he has been almost perfect, bravo !! A Short program like the one he did in Marseille and a Long program like the one he did here in Ottawa send him squarely to the World Podium. The only but it is that music that accompanies him so slow for the supersonic speed that has the boy skating, by the stands was a satisfied Eric Radford, very proud I suppose also, if the next season repeats Patrick some composition that Eric could do, please, to put something more of spark and surely we would enjoy much more of that artistic capacity that he transmits ... Enormous Patrick Chan!

Pumuki Power returns !! Yep, Kevin Reynolds, fantastic !! Second position. Always so personal, so strange, so different ... Another of those who present 4 quads in his free repertoire, maximum difficulties, he remains faithful to his style, non-transferable, it seems that the injuries that had it in recent years something removed are already Surpassed and Kevin Reynolds returns to shine as he did 4 years ago when he won the 4CC and was fifth in the World, in addition to the Olympic silver team, returns more mature, 26 years, but as Pumuki as ever.

The mission for both will be well placed in Helsinki to be able to achieve three places for the Olympic Games, Patrick seems reliable and Kevin if he maintains the type as well although it will not be easy because the competition in this category is burning!

Third is a good Nam Nguyen who seems more consistent but does not finish arriving, a progress that is being very slow and other young people like him already surpass it by much, well, not all these talented young people have to go to the same speed, the technique in high difficulties has more or less dominated but artistically is still very weak, I still see him as very junior, his body does not help him and he can not win more in that field until this facet of his skating matures.



And in fourth position gaining the public more than the own Chan, who I believe that will be its successor in Canada, pure spectacle Nicolas Nadeau, has me crazy !! A fantastic Elvis Presley, a power in the sublime ice rink, tremendous charisma, a warm, handsome presence, a long, brave, brave, brave Nico Nadeau !! All the credentials to join that group of young, impressive skaters that we now have and that we will see the next years to fight in the Great Championships, is the golden generation of Figure Skating in its masculine version, I believe that of all its history, the Which is about to arrive the next Olympic cycle ... Shoma Uno, Nathan Chen, Daniel Samohin, Boyang Jin, Jun Hwan Cha, Nicolas Nadeau, Vincent Zhou, Andrew Torgashev, Alexander Samarin, Dmitri Aliev, Alexei Krasnozhon, Deniss Vasiljevs, Kevin Aymoz ... Mamma mía !! And without knowing very well when the genius Yuzuru, who will be the veteran, put his point and end, I just think, I tremble !!

Ok, well, to be the first post I write, it has not been wrong ... Thanks GOLDENSKATE!! :agree:

He did a clean quad in free warmup and got full credit for it in the program for fully rotated. He obviously has some people on here who find him a despicable deplorable

I'm very glad that the FS was much better skated, overall, than the SP. Patrick's FS was just sublime! I love this program for him, and I'm so impressed that he's been able to incorporate the 4S so quickly. Like all his jumps, he does the 4S with excellent quality, relying on his solid technique rather than fast rotations.

I am glad that Kevin and Nam had good skates (particularly for Nam's confidence). They both rotate incredibly quickly and can do the hard jumps, but, as many people have mentioned, their lack of basic SS and spinning abilities really brings their skating down a level. I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done at this point. They both seem soooo slow. Do they just need more strength (They're both very tall and slim, and seem to lack the amount of muscle that, say, Patrick has), or is it more of a problem with technique?

Besides Patrick, my favourite skate of the night was by Nicolas Nadeau. I really do think that he is the future of men's skating in Canada. Unlike Nam and Kevin, Nicolas has excellent skating skills and speed, as well as a mature, yet fun, presence on the ice. He is definitely an entertainer! He probably has the best 3A amongst the Canadian men, and I was really shocked when he did a 4Lo! Way to go, Nicolas!!

TGee said:

I'm a real Kevin fan. I find how he can put out quads with virtually no momentum astonishing in its own right.

But I so very much wish he could just train with the ice dancers for a while to learn to sit better on his blades and get speed and flow. He's come so far on SS since his surgery, but like Nam, he is outclassed on SS by just about all the senior men globally.

Joanne MacLeod and her FS team at Champs have to be answerable for this....We see the problem in all of her skaters except those that developed SS elsewhere and then came to them for jumps....And looking at Kevin and Nam, it just isn't something that can be addressed "later" in their development....if it were easy to catch up, they'd have done so by now....

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Emily Bausback comes to my mind too...
Kevin is a better skater than what his long shows. Last year's and the year before's sp were great vehicules for him.

rain said:

I'm always sad when I see someone with much potential with McLeod. From Leung to Reynolds to Sandhu, she never, ever addresses the basic skating skills of her students and they are all sub-par unless they learned them elsewhere. And now she's got the very promising Sarah Tamura, who has the same basic skating problem as all the others. McLeod's students continue to crawl across the ice, year after year. With their lacking skating skills they always hit a ceiling internationally, and even nationally. It's so frustrating to watch and one has to wonder why nobody has intervened in all these years. Her students get so far up the ladder, then no further.

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I so agree...and honestly it keeps me from investing in both Emily and Sarah...

And the only intervention that seems to come is to give her skaters poor PCS at sectionals...In my view, at nationals they get too much PCS for their SS and TR, compared to other skaters. They really aren't up to snuff in terms of Canadian norms in SS...As much as I would have been truly sad to have seen Nam off the podium, I sincerely believe he was overscored in PCS in both the SP and FS and should have placed behind Nic overall..

What can really be getting in the way of MacLeod's skaters working with the excellent ice dance and skills coaches in Vancouver, including those on the dance side at Champs / 8 rinks? One has to wonder if it is some classic byzantine BC undercurrents of personal conflict and local competitiveness that are the insurmountable barrier. [Happens in other sports and professions....]

Am only musing from a distance, but whatever it is, as a genuine fan of both Kevin and Nam, I'm beyond out of patience with it. And if SC wants to promote and resource Champs as Canada's third international elite training centre after Toronto and Montreal, the denial of this issue needs to stop...

andromache said:

Yeah....this results page for me is showing the event as halfway completed, with zero LP scores for over half of the men.

The LP protocol doesn't have Nam or Patrick or Kevin (or others) on it. I wanted to see how well they did (or didn't) do by looking at the protocol. Is this really only happening for me? (Am I stupid or something? lol) Thank you for your recommendations though!

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Mango has posted the Senior Men's information in the Video and Results thread here..

Sorry to hear the links on the Skate Canada page weren't working for you...

andromache said:

Yeah....this results page for me is showing the event as halfway completed, with zero LP scores for over half of the men.

The LP protocol doesn't have Nam or Patrick or Kevin (or others) on it. I wanted to see how well they did (or didn't) do by looking at the protocol. Is this really only happening for me? (Am I stupid or something? lol) Thank you for your recommendations though!

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I'm having the same problem. Only the earliest skaters' marks are showing in the protocols, and in the overall list (SP/FS/Total), Nicolas is shown as the leader. I don't know what's going on, but I really would like to see completed protocols.

Dr. Jenn said:

I'm having the same problem. Only the earliest skaters' marks are showing in the protocols, and in the overall list (SP/FS/Total), Nicolas is shown as the leader. I don't know what's going on, but I really would like to see completed protocols.

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If you go over to the video and results scoring, Mango has provided the live scoring box. From there the links embedded in each score take you to the summary protocol [just not the details for each judge]...

Also suggest, if the links we provide don't work for you, trying to get them directly from the SC Start orders / results tab and go down to the Senior men's section and see what you can get.

https://skatecanada.ca/events/2017-canadian-tire-national-skating-championships/

TGee said:

If you go over to the video and results scoring, Mango has provided the live scoring box. From there the links embedded in each score take you to the summary protocol [just not the details for each judge]...

Also suggest, if the links we provide don't work for you, trying to get them directly from the SC Start orders / results tab and go down to the Senior men's section and see what you can get.

https://skatecanada.ca/events/2017-canadian-tire-national-skating-championships/

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Thanks for the prompt reply, TGee. The PDFs on the SC page are still the incomplete ones, but I was able to see the details in each man's program from Mango's post. Thanks!

Dr. Jenn said:

I'm having the same problem. Only the earliest skaters' marks are showing in the protocols, and in the overall list (SP/FS/Total), Nicolas is shown as the leader. I don't know what's going on, but I really would like to see completed protocols.

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Click on the 'live scoring" again. Or start over from Results, then Senior Men. Then click on individual scores for details.

For complete protocol, click on Start Order from the main page, then click on Detailed Classification of the event. E.g. Here's the one for Senior Men Free Skating:

http://skatecanada.ca/results/2017CDNS/2017CDNSSeniorMenFPDRO.pdf