2017 4CCs: Ice Dance recap

gsk8 · Feb 17, 2017

Canada’s Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir continued their winning ways in their comeback season, dancing to gold at the 2017 ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships in Gangneung, Korea. Defending champions Maia Shibutani and Alex Shibutani of the USA settled for the silver, while the bronze went to teammates Madison Chock and Evan Bates.

“Another title, but another great learning experience,” Virtue shared.....

“The warm up today was a little bit unusual,” Alex Shibutani explained. “We both went down on a very simple thing....

“We have a long time before Worlds now,” Bates pointed out, “so I’d imagine there will be some strategic tweaking here and there with both programs.

“I made two pretty costly mistakes, both in level and in GOE (Grade of Execution),” Donohue admitted.

“I think last time we had fifth place (in the short dance) was like 2011, so that gave us extra motivation for today,” said Weaver...

“It was physically hard and definitely tough mentally,” Gilles explained...

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What are your thoughts on the ice dancing event?

Barb · Feb 17, 2017

gsk8 said:
Canada’s Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir continued their winning ways in their comeback season, dancing to gold at the 2017 ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships in Gangneung, Korea. Defending champions Maia Shibutani and Alex Shibutani of the USA settled for the silver, while the bronze went to teammates Madison Chock and Evan Bates.

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What are your thoughts on the ice dancing event?

Someone know what were doing Maia and Alex when they fell? Maybe twizzles

I love Scott´s comments about the flag situation.

Mathman · Feb 17, 2017

Virtue and Moir continue to dazzle. I hope their showdown at Worlds with Papadakis and Cizeron lives up to the billing. P&C have to strengthen their OD a bit, but overall I can hardly wait.

In the 4CCs LP I could have gone either way between V&M and the Shibs. Both teams skate like a dream. But Chock and Bastes captured my attention, too. Their free dance was a welcome change of pace to the lyricism of some of the other couples.

meem · Feb 18, 2017

Loved the Shibutanis FD. When they started their twizzle sequence there was one split second when the camera caught their legs lifted at the same exact angle (I'm having a hard time describing it but it was stunning). I felt badly for W/P. They've always been a favorite of mine because they look so elegant on the ice with their long lines. V/M may be top skaters but IMO they just don't have the look I like in ice dancing teams and that's probably because Scott looks too short for his partner.

maddiesparks · Feb 18, 2017

I like the smaller height difference between VM. It's never been an issue visually for me, and they've always managed to create interesting/intricate lifts regardless. It also shows off their lines because their bodies match up so well so you don't have the guy's long limbs overshadowing the girl or making her appear smaller than she is. Personally, I don't like when the man is towering over the woman. The dance hold can also look wonky because the girl either has to really stretch or ends up staring at his chest.

Mathman · Feb 18, 2017

OK, I just saw the NBC TV coverage. They only showed the top two, Virtue and Moir and Shibutani and Shibutani.

Let me get this out of the way first.

Has there ever been such a lovely lady on ice as Maia Shibutani?

That said, Johnnie Weir made the point that the Shibs had beefed up their music since Nationals. By making it not so minimalist they were able to get more interpretative oomph. (They did lose to Chock and Bates in the long dance at Nationals.) I cn see where Johnnie is right. Still, I also liked their commitment to the original concept.

But Virtue and Moir were beyond exquisite. I think I will pencil in the Shibs for the bronze in Finland. Can they get higher? Can Chock and Bates make a run at the podium?

Barb · Feb 18, 2017

Mathman said:
OK, I just saw the NBC TV coverage. They only showed the top two, Virtue and Moir and Shibutani and Shibutani.

Let me get this out of the way first. Has there ever been such a lovely lady on ice as Maia Shibutani?

That said, Johnnie Weir made the point that the Shibs had beefed up their music since Nationals. By making it not so minimalist they were able to get more interpretative oomph. (They did lose to Chock and Bates in the long dance at Nationals.) I cn see where Johnnie is right. Still, I also liked their commitment to the original concept.

But Virtue and Moir were beyond exquisite. I think I will pencil in the Shibs for the bronze in Finland. Can they get higher? Can Chock and Bates make a run at the podium?

:yes:

sarama · Feb 18, 2017

chapis said:
Someone know what were doing Maia and Alex when they fell? Maybe twizzles.

I would love to know as well, because from tv it was really funny, it looked like they were just casually sitting on the ice :laugh:

Tallorder · Feb 18, 2017

chapis said:
Someone know what were doing Maia and Alex when they fell? Maybe twizzles
.

The word relayed to me was that Alex skidded on top of a costume crystal which must have fallen off from a previously skater. He had no edge to skate on and took Maia down too because they were in hold.

Maia found crystals on the ice and gave them to the referee.
Alex could not complete the warm up as he had to rush off the ice to repair his blade.

VIETgrlTerifa · Feb 18, 2017

Tallorder said:
The word relayed to me was that Alex skidded on top of a costume crystal which must have fallen off from a previously skater. He had no edge to skate on and took Maia down too because they were in hold.

Maia found crystals on the ice and gave them to the referee.
Alex could not complete the warm up as he had to rush off the ice to repair his blade.

As I didn't watch that live, I had no idea that was what happened. It makes their performance even better. Maybe the fall and needing to rush to repair the blade made them less self-conscious and thus able to perform as they had never performed that dance.

Barb · Feb 18, 2017

Tallorder said:
The word relayed to me was that Alex skidded on top of a costume crystal which must have fallen off from a previously skater. He had no edge to skate on and took Maia down too because they were in hold.

Maia found crystals on the ice and gave them to the referee.
Alex could not complete the warm up as he had to rush off the ice to repair his blade.

oh!!, thanks for the information, I am glad they did not get hurt.

Now I see it, Alex is checking his blade here https://youtu.be/h0dJ-IUYjis?t=87

mhu714 · Feb 18, 2017

I know I'll probably get slammed but here goes: I don't like V/M coming back. Don't get me wrong they're obviously great, great skaters and they'll probably win Gold next yr. And that's my point. They already have an Oly gold AND silver, what more do they want? Wonder how P/C feel about it? Or the other 2 Canadian teams who got bumped down a notch in the pecking order? Or Chock/Bates who now won't get a medal. Sure, you can argue if they're still the best why not compete? I'm sorry, to me it feels a bit selfish and self serving. BTW, I feel exactly the same way about Koster in the ladies tho shes no lock for a medal the way V/M are. So go ahead, lay into me, I can take it.

Barb · Feb 18, 2017

mhu714 said:
I know I'll probably get slammed but here goes: I don't like V/M coming back. Don't get me wrong they're obviously great, great skaters and they'll probably win Gold next yr. And that's my point. They already have an Oly gold AND silver, what more do they want? Wonder how P/C feel about it? Or the other 2 Canadian teams who got bumped down a notch in the pecking order? Or Chock/Bates who now won't get a medal. Sure, you can argue if they're still the best why not compete? I'm sorry, to me it feels a bit selfish and self serving. BTW, I feel exactly the same way about Koster in the ladies tho shes no lock for a medal the way V/M are. So go ahead, lay into me, I can take it.

Don´t you think their presence motivate to other teams to be better?. Yes, a olympic medal is nice but for the other ice dancers should be more important give the best of themselves. And us, the fans, get better performances/programs/skating.

Debs122 · Feb 18, 2017

mhu714 said:
I know I'll probably get slammed but here goes: I don't like V/M coming back. Don't get me wrong they're obviously great, great skaters and they'll probably win Gold next yr. And that's my point. They already have an Oly gold AND silver, what more do they want? Wonder how P/C feel about it? Or the other 2 Canadian teams who got bumped down a notch in the pecking order? Or Chock/Bates who now won't get a medal. Sure, you can argue if they're still the best why not compete? I'm sorry, to me it feels a bit selfish and self serving. BTW, I feel exactly the same way about Koster in the ladies tho shes no lock for a medal the way V/M are. So go ahead, lay into me, I can take it.

I will never understand this mindset. This is a sport first and foremost. I can't imagine in any other sport a top team being asked to step down to give a lesser team better chances to medal. I guess we should have cut off Michael Phelps after his 10th medal. If a skater is healthy and can compete they should and Charlie White said as much during the SD broadcast.

mhu714 · Feb 18, 2017

Phelps didn't automatically get slotted at the top after coming back the way V/M are. He also got beat a couple of times and that won't happen to V/M barring something totally unlikely. They messed up their last twizzle in the FD and they still beat the Shibs. It's the worst part of skating and it's never gonna change. So again, congrats in advance, give email the gold now. Give C/Z the silver and the Shibs the bronze.

mhu714 · Feb 18, 2017

Plus, easy for White to say, he got his Gold.

bwayrose7 · Feb 18, 2017

mhu714 said:
I know I'll probably get slammed but here goes: I don't like V/M coming back. Don't get me wrong they're obviously great, great skaters and they'll probably win Gold next yr. And that's my point. They already have an Oly gold AND silver, what more do they want? Wonder how P/C feel about it? Or the other 2 Canadian teams who got bumped down a notch in the pecking order? Or Chock/Bates who now won't get a medal. Sure, you can argue if they're still the best why not compete? I'm sorry, to me it feels a bit selfish and self serving. BTW, I feel exactly the same way about Koster in the ladies tho shes no lock for a medal the way V/M are. So go ahead, lay into me, I can take it.

If they're coming for you, they can come for me too. Don't get me wrong, it's thrilling to see these all-time greats back again, and I think their SD is the best in the world this year and I love it. I've always been a VM fan - I was one of those oddballs who liked them and DW equally - so I have no problem with them. And logically, yes, if an athlete can compete, there's nothing stopping them. But I can't help feeling it's just the tiniest bit selfish to come back to add to an already extraordinary career, simultaneously shooting down the potential only chances of others.

Debs122 said:
I will never understand this mindset. This is a sport first and foremost. I can't imagine in any other sport a top team being asked to step down to give a lesser team better chances to medal. I guess we should have cut off Michael Phelps after his 10th medal. If a skater is healthy and can compete they should and Charlie White said as much during the SD broadcast.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the difference between ice dance and sports such as swimming are that there is no subjective component to those other sports. The timer doesn't lie; a ball either goes in the basket/goal or it doesn't; the arrow hits the target or it doesn't. In skating, and in ice dance more than anywhere else, reputation and preferences play a role. We'd like to think they don't, but I'm pretty sure every viewer with passable knowledge of the sport can point to at least one instance in which a team has mysteriously gotten held down on PCS or gotten/not gotten the level on an element that it appears they should. Yes, VM are exceptional skaters, talented and well-trained, I don't dispute that. Yes, their elements give them some cushion; that's part of the strategy of the sport. But ice dance does have a hierarchical side to it - top teams get the benefit of the doubt. Rapid rises, like PC, are the exception, not the rule.

And again, I feel the need to state that I say this as someone who genuinely likes VM and is in awe of their skating. I just felt like their era had passed and it might have been respectful to allow the next group (both of younger teams and of teams who had waited in DW/VM's shadows) to have a chance to continue thriving.

blackey · Feb 18, 2017

bwayrose7 said:
And again, I feel the need to state that I say this as someone who genuinely likes VM and is in awe of their skating. I just felt like their era had passed and it might have been respectful to allow the next group (both of younger teams and of teams who had waited in DW/VM's shadows) to have a chance to continue thriving.

1. they're really not that old, they never said they're tired, neither do d/w.
2. do you think you're being respectful to any of the skater by saying this?
(waited in dw/vm's shadows??? p/c weren't even competing at sochi)

Mango · Feb 18, 2017

As V/M detractors will point out they were beaten this season. In the FD at Skate Canada. They've also gotten dinged for things like time violations (ACI16) and lifts (ACI16 and Nationals). They haven't been perfect and the judges have let them know.

olayolay · Feb 18, 2017

mhu714 said:
Phelps didn't automatically get slotted at the top after coming back the way V/M are. He also got beat a couple of times and that won't happen to V/M barring something totally unlikely. They messed up their last twizzle in the FD and they still beat the Shibs. It's the worst part of skating and it's never gonna change. So again, congrats in advance, give email the gold now. Give C/Z the silver and the Shibs the bronze.

V/M weren't automatically slotted back at the top. They lost the free dance at home to Chock/Bates. There is an easily an alternate universe where P/C don't make mistakes at NHK and beat V/M and ride that momentum to beat them again at GPF. Yes, V/M will have high PCS built-in to their scores. Can anyone argue they don't deserve them?

2017 4CCs: Ice Dance recap

gsk8

Barb

Mathman

meem

maddiesparks

Mathman

Barb

sarama

Tallorder

VIETgrlTerifa

Barb

mhu714

Barb

Debs122

mhu714

mhu714

bwayrose7

blackey

Mango

Royal Chinet 👑🍽️

olayolay

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