How can USFS better develop the sport? | Page 4 | Golden Skate

How can USFS better develop the sport?

lappo

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Lol, first there would need to be a legit US lady contender. And I'm trying to imagine a fluff piece making Evgenia look evil when she is just so sweet and innocent looking with her big doe eyes!!

This makes me think though....good guy versus bad guy narratives are good for the casuals. Simple stories, they know who to root for and who to root against. It's nationalistic and terribly unfair to whoever ends up portrayed as the "bad guy," but I doubt the US is the only country who has ever done it. I don't think it's a coincidence that the sport was pretty darn popular after the end of the Soviet Union with a continued faux Cold War narrative.

Ten year old me fell in love with the sport during the 2002 Olympics when I was rooting for underdogs Sale/Pelletier to end the evil Russian pairs gold dynasty and win OGM. (Obviously I have seen the error of my ways.)

:agree: Narratives in general are very much needed in FS, IMO. And big rivalries are what make every sport exciting for casual and also non casual viewers. Decades of FS have literally been defined by big rivalries: the battle of the Carmens, the battle of the Brians, Michelle vs Irina (and vs little powerhouse Tara), Plush &Yags (loved that one, it was epic!), V/M vs D/W, Mao vs Yuna and so on...now, the return of V/M has opened the chance of a "old" glories vs young, supertalented guys narrative; the men have their quadbattle and, together with pairs are IMO the most interesting (and most impredictable) field. If I were a in ISU, I would make ample and wide use of these plots in the upcoming season (a fluff to make the men and pairs OGM challengers known would be useful, also to emphasize the incredible amount of technical progress of the very last few years).
 

Chemistry66

Mmmmm, tacos.
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
I think that it's more about does the USFG punish people who are critical of what they do? Is the problem for people who cover the sport that if they are too critical then access to skaters gets cut off?

Compare the coverage of figure skating to the coverage of more main stream sports. Hockey writers will come right out and say that such and such isn't working and that this person is under performing and this coach is making bad decisions. Why is it that skating journalists feel this need to treat skaters with kid gloves? In fact I would probably ask some of you guys that. Why is it that some fans are so opposed to any kind of criticism of their favourite skaters?

The thing about hockey beat writers criticizing players/coaches/front office management can also be looked at from the opposite angle, though. Sometimes they can be critical because of the magnitude of the sport and the fanbase. It's easier to find people who agree when there's the bigger base. There's still plenty of crappy hockey journalism, and beat writers still get yelled at for criticizing people's favorites (whether the criticism is justified or not).

With skating, there's so much less coverage that a negative article about Skater X's faults might be the only article Skater X's fans can find about them. Then they feel the need to fight the negativity even if it's fully justified. Journalists covering skating may use the kid gloves to avoid these fights, even if they're being honest and not mean.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Joined
Dec 27, 2009
The thing about hockey beat writers criticizing players/coaches/front office management can also be looked at from the opposite angle, though. Sometimes they can be critical because of the magnitude of the sport and the fanbase. It's easier to find people who agree when there's the bigger base. There's still plenty of crappy hockey journalism, and beat writers still get yelled at for criticizing people's favorites (whether the criticism is justified or not).

With skating, there's so much less coverage that a negative article about Skater X's faults might be the only article Skater X's fans can find about them. Then they feel the need to fight the negativity even if it's fully justified. Journalists covering skating may use the kid gloves to avoid these fights, even if they're being honest and not mean.

Exactly. There are fewer figure skating journalists in general and even when there was "more of them" they weren't covering figure skating exclusively. Even Phil Hersh, who was one of the prolific of figure skating journalists, was covering several Olympic sports. The same goes for writers like Nancy Armour, Christopher Clary, Jo-Ann Barnes, etc.

The ones who are covering figure skating exclusively is generally TSL and writers from sites like Ice Network and other fan-based websites rather than independent publications. It would actually be nice that a local publication like Colorado Springs Gazette cover USFS/ the sport of U.S. Figure Skating better cause it's in their background, but a local paper doesn't have the resources to dedicate a sports reporter to cover figure skating exclusively.

There's just not a critical mass of reporters to hold USFS (and ISU and figure skating institutions in general) accountable like let's say, the White House. Dave Lease may not be off base in his criticisms, but he's just one guy and that's why he comes off as just another fan ranting. TSL really could be a hard-hitting figure skating website if it had the resources. I mean, we're talking examining 990s (nonprofit tax forms) and good old fashioned reporting. Or maybe do some collaborative work with other skating journalists such as Jackie Wong or Phil Hersh (since he's independent now). Resources are always a challenge, but there are ways around it.

In general, I've always advocated for diverse array of viewpoints. That's why I always thought Phil Hersh got way too much flack even when I don't agree with his viewpoints some of the time.
 
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Chemistry66

Mmmmm, tacos.
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Feb 16, 2010
Exactly. There are fewer figure skating journalists in general and even when there was "more of them" they weren't covering figure skating exclusively. Even Phil Hersh, who was one of the prolific of figure skating journalists, was covering several Olympic sports. The same goes for writers like Nancy Armour, Christopher Clary, Jo-Ann Barnes, etc.

The ones who are covering figure skating exclusively is generally TSL and writers from sites like Ice Network and other fan-based websites rather than independent publications. It would actually be nice that a local publication like Colorado Springs Gazette cover USFS/ the sport of U.S. Figure Skating better cause it's in their background, but a local paper doesn't have the resources to dedicate a sports reporter to cover figure skating exclusively.

There's just not a critical mass of reporters to hold USFS (and ISU and figure skating institutions in general) accountable like let's say, the White House. Dave Lease may not be off base in his criticisms, but he's just one guy and that's why he comes off as just another fan ranting. TSL really could be a hard-hitting figure skating website if it had the resources. I mean, we're talking examining 990s (nonprofit tax forms) and good old fashioned reporting. Or maybe do some collaborative work with other skating journalists such as Jackie Wong or Phil Hersh (since he's independent now). Resources are always a challenge, but there are ways around it.

In general, I've always advocated for diverse array of viewpoints. That's why I always thought Phil Hersh got way too much flack even when I don't agree with his viewpoints some of the time.

TSL could be a hard-hitting skating site even with it being mostly Dave. Dedication to covering skating is only part of the picture. Part of the way he comes off as a fan ranting is just because of the way he writes.

I follow a few fan-run gymnastics sites that are primarily run by single people (even if they have a few helpers for some situations). Sites like The Gymternet and The Couch Gymnast have developed into pretty significant full-coverage sites after starting off slowly. It's the way the people who run the sites cover the events that has helped them grow as serious sites.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Joined
Dec 27, 2009
TSL could be a hard-hitting skating site even with it being mostly Dave. Dedication to covering skating is only part of the picture. Part of the way he comes off as a fan ranting is just because of the way he writes.

I follow a few fan-run gymnastics sites that are primarily run by single people (even if they have a few helpers for some situations). Sites like The Gymternet and The Couch Gymnast have developed into pretty significant full-coverage sites after starting off slowly. It's the way the people who run the sites cover the events that has helped them grow as serious sites.

I agree with you. I've definitely seen some single-man entities (i.e. blogs) scoop mainstream publications. And TSL, for what it's worth, did turn out to be right about a few things, i.e. Gracie Gold's coaching change to Frank, etc. However, yes, I agree TSL's gossipy style make it hard for some fans to take it seriously.

By the way, I think the Twitter stream post can be VERY effective and I've seen examples of Twitter used well for valid storytelling and hard hitting reporting (the work by Andy Carvin, formely of NPR during the Arab Spring comes to mind). But Dave's tweets are all over the place, so I can see how some people see them as more ranty (though it seems people are responding to them and engaging in some interesting discussions, so perhaps it's not all for naught). He also tweeted that he has a few videos planned on some of these topics, so perhaps there will be some more meat there.
 
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Chemistry66

Mmmmm, tacos.
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Feb 16, 2010
I agree with you. I've definitely seen some single-man entities (i.e. blogs) scoop mainstream publications. And TSL, for what it's worth, did turn out to be right about a few things, i.e. Gracie Gold's coaching change to Frank, etc. However, yes, I agree TSL's gossipy style make it hard for some fans to take it seriously.

By the way, I think the Twitter stream post can be VERY effective and I've seen examples of Twitter used well for valid storytelling and hard hitting reporting (the work by Andy Carvin, formely of NPR during the Arab Spring comes to mind). But Dave's tweets are all over the place. That said, he tweeted that he has a few videos planned on some of these topics, so perhaps there will be some more meat there.

One thing that benefits some sites is separating the personal account from the site account. So he could post gossipy stuff on his own account and keep the site more serious.

I do agree that Twitter can be used for good. I have Twitter feeds for gymnastics and for skating, so that even if I don't follow every account, I still can see a lot of the main news easily. Embracing social media (when done correctly!) is really helpful to sports.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
One thing that benefits some sites is separating the personal account from the site account. So he could post gossipy stuff on his own account and keep the site more serious.

I do agree that Twitter can be used for good. I have Twitter feeds for gymnastics and for skating, so that even if I don't follow every account, I still can see a lot of the main news easily. Embracing social media (when done correctly!) is really helpful to sports.

Yes, I love twitter feeds for sports things, such as the NBA Playoffs. It's great to see commentary.

I think the other issue with TSL's rants is that a lot of the information is unverified, hence it comes off as gossipy. On the other hand, on its Twitter page it brands it self as offering "inside scoop on personal lives/training" so maybe that's the tone Dave wants to take.
 
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Bluediamonds09

Medalist
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
As much as people are against it, I think that showcasing all the drama in figure skating could help the sport. People live for drama. We all want to know what's happening behind the scenes. And since the drama is already there in spades....

Of course, a great way to fix all these USFSA issues would be to produce consistent skaters and encourage talent in ALL four disciplines not just ladies. Consistency is the main problem in US: there is lots of talent. Look at Tessa and Mariah and Timothy and Karen and The Parsons.

Is setting up a Gymnastics-type situation really the best idea? I have no idea. But what's going on right now isn't working either.
 

JustRozy

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Country
United-States
I agree and there are way more issues in figure skating than just the debate of whether it is 'sport' enough. These are currently two of my major interests and I have been to both MSG for League of Legends and Boston for Worlds Figure Skating, so I thought I'd add in some of my thoughts regarding the similarities and differences between these two that might explain the differences in sponsorships. Both esports and figure skating have niche markets and are not really accessible to outsiders and are not 'mainstream'. Figure skating is perhaps the more widely accepted of the two because it's an Olympic sport -- if people are complaining about being seen as weird for liking/watching figure skating, imagine explaining to other people about watching people play video games on a screen in an arena.

However, the demographics for esports is much more clearly defined in terms of gender and age range (predominantly male and around 18-24), both of which are very desirable to sponsors, and esports itself is easily linked to sponsorship products like gaming systems or energy drinks like Red Bull. The demographics for figure skating is much more varied in terms of age range and is predominantly female, which makes it a harder market to target.

People are fan of teams, so even though players can be dropped or added, the support for the team can remain and the fanbase loyalty can be retained even after a popular player retires. Fanbase loyalty is very important for sponsorships. Figure skating is an individual sport and people follow skaters. Fans need to keep finding new skaters to support to remain invested in the sport. This means that the popularity of the sport is very susceptible to the public interest in the current crop of skaters. Also, esports personalities interact a lot more directly with fans on a regular basis since they stream their gameplay (practices) and chat with fans, so they can build their own fanbases and attract their own sponsorships as well through their own reach. Aside from twitter/instagram posts and some vlogs, skaters do not really interact with the fans via their trade (i.e. skating).

As you would expect, the audience cultivation and interaction for esports is largely online, which is true for the majority of skating fans as well. I don't think targeting TV audience would be a worthwhile investment in this day and age and figure skating as a sport is not really suited to TV watching because it is a long series of performances from individual skaters of varied abilities. The attention span of TV watchers cannot last that long, especially when you are starting with the lower-level performances. For esports, there are central streaming locations (twitch.tv, youtube gaming) that are free, global, easily accessible and provide a platform for people to interact via chat, which gives it a more 'group-like' experience. It is like posting on the forum threads here except the forum format is not a really ideal chatting environment during live streams. Having a global centralised and accessible viewing platform would make it much easier to attract sponsorships since the viewers would be centralised as well, so there is a clear indication of the reach that sponsors want to see. It's also easier to track where viewerships are coming from and where there are interests to host events. Figure skating viewership is scattered and spread across countries and platforms, hardly a desirable target for sponsors especially since the demographics is already so varied.

At the end of the day, I think instead of trying to make figure skating more 'mainstream', they should just make it easier to watch and share the performances online. Just satisfy and strengthen your core viewership and make it easy for THEM hook in new viewers! It does not make sense that it is so difficult even for long time skating fans to catch any event live, much less for casual viewers.


YES! Youtube videos & such are great eye-candy for catching someone's momentary interest, but I remember that as a total newbie I had zero context for any of those moments, or ways to build on their brief attraction. Part of the fabulous appeal of figure skating, to me, is the complex, highly structured, yet infinitely variable competition events structure within which each skater battles alone. IceNetwork, which I stumbled into, has many flaws--I think my cursing was heard out in the street when IN's server geoblocked me in error during Worlds. But it allows someone attracted to figure skating to at least somewhat experience the sport as a whole contest, as well as a unique individual expression of strength and art. I was mesmerized! I could watch entire competitive events from beginning to end, blessedly without commentary, as they were happening in real time elsewhere on the earth. Audience support for all the skaters was strongly evident, in the very best traditions of sport. Now I go to all the competitions that I can afford, respect & follow skaters who may never medal even though they are still among the best in the world, and study up with youtube--so the circle comes around! But without IN and other sometimes successful live streams to piece it all together it would never never have happened for me. Imho, more of THAT is what would truly grow this beautiful sport as much as possible because that would let people see what it truly is. Then let the chips fall where they may.
 

zschultz1986

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Just watch Dave be right about the important things, and then never get credit, because people on this forum love to hate him. He's right about US Figure Skating needing to follow the model of US Gymnastics: Decentralized, but with multiple, periodic camps. One "Champs Camp" a year is not enough. Also, we have a lot of incomplete coaches that create incomplete skaters, and we need to change the culture so that coaches are sharing info and knowledge so that they can all get better, and this is where a US Gym type system can help. He also talked about the USFS not using all tech available to help their skaters, which is insane to me! Whatever you think about Martha, she got results, and she did it, in part, by implementing this system, a system adapted to specifically suit America, which she knew would fail under the Romanian/USSR/Chinese ultra-centralized systems.

I've been saying (and you can go back and find the posts on here from years ago, on this forum and on others) that killing stuff off of YouTube IS A MASSIVE MISTAKE. USFS should have been using YouTube for viral moments and for cataloguing skaters past, present, and future from the start! USFS is shooting themselves in the foot with IceNetwork. It won't grow s***, because it's not free content.

The USFS leaves a lot to be desired and deserves every criticism they get. They are stuck in an old model of governing a sport like Figure Skating, and he NOT changed nearly fast enough.

Just be honest with us, TSL haters: You hate Dave, and you will never give anything he says ANY credence, even if it turns out to be 100% right. He's a lot better sourced than you would think.
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
Just watch Dave be right about the important things, and then never get credit, because people on this forum love to hate him. He's right about US Figure Skating needing to follow the model of US Gymnastics: Decentralized, but with multiple, periodic camps. One "Champs Camp" a year is not enough. Also, we have a lot of incomplete coaches that create incomplete skaters, and we need to change the culture so that coaches are sharing info and knowledge so that they can all get better, and this is where a US Gym type system can help. He also talked about the USFS not using all tech available to help their skaters, which is insane to me! Whatever you think about Martha, she got results, and she did it, in part, by implementing this system, a system adapted to specifically suit America, which she knew would fail under the Romanian/USSR/Chinese ultra-centralized systems.

I've been saying (and you can go back and find the posts on here from years ago, on this forum and on others) that killing stuff off of YouTube IS A MASSIVE MISTAKE. USFS should have been using YouTube for viral moments and for cataloguing skaters past, present, and future from the start! USFS is shooting themselves in the foot with IceNetwork. It won't grow s***, because it's not free content.

The USFS leaves a lot to be desired and deserves every criticism they get. They are stuck in an old model of governing a sport like Figure Skating, and he NOT changed nearly fast enough.

Just be honest with us, TSL haters: You hate Dave, and you will never give anything he says ANY credence, even if it turns out to be 100% right. He's a lot better sourced than you would think.

I think plenty of folks here have pointed out what you just said:
* That TSL (Dave) is often right about a number of things.
* That his criticisms of USFS are warranted
* That USFS has to work on a number of areas.

I think it's just as valid however to point out that TSL certainly has an opportunity to play a role in this process and to point out, without being a "TSL hater," constructive criticisms of the website and its approach.

Also I think it's incorrect to state that USFS has done NOTHING regarding YouTube or that they don't offer any free content. For one, unlike our friends at Fuji TV, have never force YouTube to pull down any IceNetwork videos. In fact you'll find Ice Network videos all over YouTube.

At Nationals and Skate America, they offer backstage coverage and Skate Radio free of charge. Not only that, when a skater has a good skate, Ice Network sometimes offers that performance free of charge.

On YouTube, they've put up archived performances of Team USA skaters and different feature videos.

Also, USFS does not only does Champs Camp. They've done a U.S. Pairs camp in the summer the last few years and more recently, they had all the Junior Worlds team members (including alternates) meet up for a workshop/camp a few weeks before the competition.

Going back to my point earlier -- USFS can definitely do BETTER in all areas and do MORE of all of the above. But I think it's important to point out what they ARE doing to discuss how they can improve.

As I said earlier, I hope TSL (Dave) will discuss these issues more at length in these videos he mentioned.
 
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zschultz1986

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
I think plenty of folks here have pointed out what you just said:
* That TSL (Dave) are often right about a number of things.
* That his criticisms of USFS are warranted
* That USFS has to work on a number of areas.

I think it's just as valid however to point out that TSL certainly has an opportunity to play a role in this process and to point out, without being a "TSL hater," constructive criticisms of the website and its approach.

Also I think it's incorrect to state that USFS has done NOTHING regarding YouTube or that they don't offer any free content. For one, unlike our friends at Fuji TV, have never force YouTube to pull down any IceNetwork videos. In fact you'll find Ice Network videos all over YouTube.

At Nationals and Skate America, they offer backstage coverage and Skate Radio free of charge. Not only that, when a skater has a good skate, Ice Network sometimes offers that performance free of charge.

On YouTube, they've put up archived performances of Team USA skaters and different feature videos.

Also, USFS does not only does Champs Camp. They've done a U.S. Pairs camp in the summer the last few years and more recently, they had all the Junior Worlds team members (including alternates) meet up for a workshop/camp a few weeks before the competition.

Going back to my point earlier -- USFS can definitely do BETTER in all areas and do MORE of all of the above. But I think it's important to point out what they ARE doing to discuss how they can improve.

As I said earlier, I hope TSL (Dave) will discuss these issues more at length in these videos he mentioned.

And I think the lengthier format will help flesh out these issues. Twitter chains aren't the best format IMO.

When you say: "If you're still viewing The Skating Lesson and giving one ounce of credence to anything they say, then you deserve all the butt hurt they deliver" or that TSL is a trainwreck, you're a hater. Straight up, full stop. This is not constructive criticism. I've got nothing against people being a hater, but if you (the generalized you) get called on it, have some points to defend your opinion, or walk away.

That's fine that they don't take stuff down, but they shouldn't have to have others put it up. In fact, they should have a channel on YouTube, with clips and skates, because it would centralize the content, and people would know WHERE to get content. When you're being beat by individual members on this forum and others in terms of YouTube content indexing and accumulation, that's sad. I'm sorry but when you're the USFS channel, and I see more uploads on Nancy and Artem than about ACTUAL SKATING PROGRAMS, I get a bit pissed off.

One camp a year is NOT enough. You should have ALL disciplines there at least 4 times: Summer, as training begins, Late Summer/Early Fall, as the season begins, between Grand Prix and Nationals, and between Nationals and Worlds.
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
And I think the lengthier format will help flesh out these issue. Twitter chains are fine, but I think a video or multiple videos is a better format, especially if there is input from current/former skaters.

When you say: "If you're still viewing The Skating Lesson and giving one ounce of credence to anything they say, then you deserve all the butt hurt they deliver" or that TSL is a trainwreck, you're a hater. Straight up, full stop. This is not constructive criticism.

That's fine that they don't take stuff down, but they shouldn't have to have others put it up. In fact, they should have a channel on YouTube, with clips and skates, because it would centralize the content, and people would know WHERE to get content. When you're being beat by individual members on this forum and others in terms of YouTube content indexing and accumulation, that's sad.

I think it's okay if people don't like TSL. People have valid reasons for it. Me personally, I don't feel strongly one way or another. I think Dave is passionate about the sport and puts a lot of work into it and offers a voice for sure.

Skate Canada offers streaming and archived video for some of its events, but not all. JSF certainly doesn't do very much. The federation that is the closest to your ideal may be Russia, since they do offer that SkatingRU YT channel for most of their events (but again, not all). Video rights/broadcasting are tricky things.
 

zschultz1986

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
I think it's okay if people don't like TSL. People have valid reasons for it. Me personally, I don't feel strongly one way or another. I think Dave is passionate about the sport and puts a lot of work into it and offers a voice for sure.

Skate Canada offers streaming and archived video for some of its events, but not all. JSF certainly doesn't do very much. The federation that is the closest to your ideal may be Russia, since they do offer that SkatingRU YT channel for most of their events (but again, not all). Video rights/broadcasting are tricky things.

Like I said, you can not like TSL, but to say that nothing he has to say is valid is just stupid, and you should be called stupid for that opinion. Some people don't like his gossipy delivery, that's fine, but that's tone, not content. Saying all of his info is wrong is just plain stupid.
 

Sydney Rose

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 21, 2014
Just be honest with us, TSL haters: You hate Dave, and you will never give anything he says ANY credence, even if it turns out to be 100% right. He's a lot better sourced than you would think.

Dave's behavior on TSL exhibits all the classic signs of someone with narcissistic personality disorder, one of which is grandiosity: I can be the savior of figure skating in the US if only those USFS morons will listen to me and do exactly what I say.

What exactly is it that qualifies Dave to adopt such a position of superiority? He's not an elite skater nor is he the parent of one. His day job has nothing to do with skating or marketing; per LinkedIn, he works as a paralegal for an insurance company. Why should the USFA listen to him? Especially given how viciously he trashed them on Twitter the other day?
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
That's fine that they don't take stuff down, but they shouldn't have to have others put it up. In fact, they should have a channel on YouTube, with clips and skates, because it would centralize the content, and people would know WHERE to get content. When you're being beat by individual members on this forum and others in terms of YouTube content indexing and accumulation, that's sad. I'm sorry but when you're the USFS channel, and I see more uploads on Nancy and Artem than about ACTUAL SKATING PROGRAMS, I get a bit pissed off.

One camp a year is NOT enough. You should have ALL disciplines there at least 4 times: Summer, as training begins, Late Summer/Early Fall, as the season begins, between Grand Prix and Nationals, and between Nationals and Worlds.

How do you determine what the organization "should" be doing?

First, what are the goals?
U.S. Figure Skating Mission Statement

As the national governing body, the mission of the United States Figure Skating Association is to provide programs to encourage participation and achievement in the sport of figure skating on ice,
Nowhere is it stated their goal is to attract fans or to make content available to fans. The goal is to govern the sport within the US.

The main advantage of attracting fans would be as a means to an end: to generate income that can support the participant-based goals: by selling tickets, selling broadcast rights, selling advertising/sponsorship rights to sponsors by promising them an audience, and, yes, perhaps by selling access to videos.

The other big advantage to attracting fans could be, indirectly, to attract more participants/members by creating wider awareness of and interest in the sport nationwide.

But that also is a means to a participant-based end, not an end in itself.

What's the best way to attract more fans as means to encourage participation and achievement? Those are tactical decisions that would vary as the media landscape within the US changes. Fans probably have some good ideas about what would be attractive to fans, but the decisions have to be made in the context of the larger goals and of the resources available.

How much money is available? When skating was at the height of popularity in the 1990s and visual mass media were still television-centered, there were lucrative TV contracts that allowed developing more programs both for skaters and fans than had been possible in earlier eras or that remain possible after public interest dispersed elsewhere.

USFS is a volunteer-based organization. There is a smallish paid staff at headquarters in Colorado Springs, primarily tasked participant-centered services. I see only a handful of job titles that might have anything to do with addressing media/the public.

Everything else that the organization accomplishes is done by volunteers, from local club level up to national leadership.

So if someone has a good idea for what might be an effective way to grow audiences (which by itself is only a means to an end as discussed above) or to improve the performance of the elite competitors (which would come under the central mission of encouraging achievement in the sport), in order for that idea to be implemented there would have to be decisions about how to implement it, how to pay for and staff the efforts.

What would be the costs, in both money and person-hours? Will those labor hours be financially compensated or performed by volunteers? Will the benefits outweigh the costs, or is the plan just too expensive to be worth undertaking? Will it reliably achieve the intended goals?

After taking all those considerations into account, then you can start to decide whether the plan is something the organization it should undertake. Or whether it's something that might be nice, assuming money etc. were no object, but not practical in real life.
 

zschultz1986

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Dave's behavior on TSL exhibits all the classic signs of someone with narcissistic personality disorder, one of which is grandiosity: I can be the savior of figure skating in the US if only those USFS morons will listen to me and do exactly what I say.

What exactly is it that qualifies Dave to adopt such a position of superiority? He's not an elite skater nor is he the parent of one. His day job has nothing to do with skating or marketing; per LinkedIn, he works as a paralegal for an insurance company. Why should the USFA listen to him? Especially given how viciously he trashed them on Twitter the other day?

LOL, you're really diagnosing someone with a personality disorder based on Twitter? That's something that psychiatrists are taught not to do.

What exactly qualifies Dave? Nothing. Did he ever say he was ANY of the things that you pointed out? No. What a silly argument.
 
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musicfan80

Medalist
Joined
May 20, 2015
What exactly is it that qualifies Dave to adopt such a position of superiority? He's not an elite skater nor is he the parent of one. His day job has nothing to do with skating or marketing; per LinkedIn, he works as a paralegal for an insurance company. Why should the USFA listen to him? Especially given how viciously he trashed them on Twitter the other day?

I apologize if this has been discussed in this thread, but am I the only one whose first :scratch2: at his Twitter tirades against USFS was that they have been during the workday? Most paralegals that I know work pretty intensely throughout the day.

I do wonder how much these tirades will affect him getting a press credential to future events. Does anyone else remember the drama that happened when they didn't get one to the 2013 U.S. Classic in Salt Lake City?
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I do think that USFS would benefit from looking at how other governing bodies like USA Gymnastics, USA Swimming, and USA Track & Field do a better job of promoting their sports and elite athletes on social media and on YouTube. USA Gymnastics and USA Swimming have free live streaming on their meets and I think icenetwork is a hindrance to people having access to watch and discover the sport.

I'm not sure how things like the "Champs Camp" are benefiting a skater's performances in the GP/JGP and then at 4CC/Worlds, but I'm not convinced that going to a "Marta Karolyi" style of camps would be better. Plus, USA Gymnastics isn't perfect in monitoring coach/skater relationships - they are right now going through a sexual abuse scandal.

I think USFS could make some improvements in how talent is developed, but I disagree with Dave Lease that USA Gymnastics is the exact model that they should follow. Plus, it's only the women's program that has excelled. The men's program is still kinda :confused2: - and most of the men's national team trains full time together at the USOTC in Colorado Springs, CO.
 
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karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
Just watch Dave be right about the important things, and then never get credit, because people on this forum love to hate him. He's right about US Figure Skating needing to follow the model of US Gymnastics: Decentralized, but with multiple, periodic camps.

I'd rather US Figure Skating not developing a culture of rampant sexual abuse stretching on for a period of twenty or more years which is covered up by the board and athletes who speak out are discredited or dropped, thanks. Maybe that's what you want, but it's not what I want.

Additionally, most of the guff Lease dribbles on with is stuff many fans here and on other boards have been saying for years about Youtube and marketing and the like. There have been threads upon threads about it. Lease's guff isn't new.
 
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zschultz1986

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
I'd rather US Figure Skating not developing a culture of rampant sexual abuse stretching on for a period of twenty or more years which is covered up by the board and athletes who speak out are discredited or dropped, thanks. Maybe that's what you want, but it's not what I want.

Additionally, most of the guff Lease dribbles on with is stuff many fans here and on other boards have been saying for years about Youtube and marketing and the like. There have been threads upon threads about it. Lease's guff isn't new.

You're a horrible person to argue with Karne. Point out WHERE i said those words? HINT: I didn't. You're putting words in my mouth. So don't argue with the adults unless you ACTUALLY want to argue the merits.

No one wants that sexual abuse to go on, that was horrible. However, Marta DID get results. So adapt the system, and not the people, to your sport. However, I don't think you came here with intentions of conversing at all. You just wanted to snark and make jokes. Which is funny, considering you seem to disparage Dave to no end for doing the exact thing you're doing now. Take a look in the mirror before you start pointing out other people's flaws, Karne.
 
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