2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating | Page 8 | Golden Skate

2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating

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Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
I think the Olympic contenders in Russia can be broken down into groups:

Group 1 (Locks)
Medvedeva

Group 2 (likely to comprise the last 2 spots)
Zagitova

Pogorilaya
Sotskova
Radionova

Group 3 (outsiders with a chance to make the team)
Tuktamysheva
Tsurskaya
Lipnitskaya
Sotnikova (if she comes back)

Group 4:
Everyone else

Groups 1 and 2 coincide with the main team - group 3 with the reserve team. The only exception is Leonova who is in reserve team: she is eternal. I just hope she can still find her inspiration - at least get to her 2014-15 form when she could even get a GP podium.
 

Imagine

Medalist
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Actually, I can see them sending Leonova with the team to the Olys...


...as a chaperone I mean.
 

hippomoomin

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
I sort of concur with you. Yulia's problem is much more than injuries though. It is even a big question mark at the moment whether she will continue. Even healthy, it is hard for her to continue. I can understand the feeling of falling from the very top to the point losing triples. Lenova is the opposite, she never gives up and is fighter, but her times are just gone. Even her peak world silver performance a few years ago can hardly put her on Russian ladies' podium now.

Polina's jumps are on a whole different level. So her problem is mostly injury, though we don't know whether she will just periodically injure herself.

Before getting injured, Lipnitskaya had 2 bad seasons in a row, no matter what happened. Last time she scored over 200 was in 2014. Ok, she was injured in 2016. In 2015, she didnt make worlds or GPF. She has a 3 season story of bombing the FS pretty much every time.
Tsurskaya had one bad season (which was still better than last season for Yulia, as Polina made the Jr. Worlds team and got Gold at her both GPs).

I really dont get why people keep putting such high hopes on Lipnitskaya right now.
 

beki

Medalist
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Lipnitskaya, Sotnikova, Sakhanovich... even after their winning days passed their appeal as performers improved. Injuries and TES aside, their matured skating has something to offer. I would like to be able to see it.

Pogorilaya and Radionova finally became interesting. Sotskova knows she must do the same. But it's always new junior wunderkinds skating juniorish. Hopefully with Evgenia we'll finally see a skater reach her technical and artistic peak at the same time.
 

lavoix

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 5, 2015
Lipnitskaya showed remarkable form last season, she was just tripping everywhere and breaking her legs, however I don't want to lose hope that she could at least set a good impression next season.
 
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andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
As long as Alena, Sima, and Yulia get something out of continuing to train and perform and compete, I don't see why they shouldn't. If they continue to find joy and satisfaction in it even without the medals, then why not? But I imagine that it is very difficult to continue to do so while knowing that you will likely never again be among the best even though you used to be, and wondering if your time would be better spent on education or something else non-skating related.
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
As long as Alena, Sima, and Yulia get something out of continuing to train and perform and compete, I don't see why they shouldn't. If they continue to find joy and satisfaction in it even without the medals, then why not? But I imagine that it is very difficult to continue to do so while knowing that you will likely never again be among the best even though you used to be, and wondering if your time would be better spent on education or something else non-skating related.

Its not like we claim they should retire.
But their olympic chances arent very bright.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Its not like we claim they should retire.
But their olympic chances arent very bright.

Sakhanovich could switch country. She is young enough that sitting out a year or two won't hurt her. And for some countries (especially the ex Soviet Union countries) she could get citizenship relatively easy, so her Olympic chances would not be that bad.
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Sakhanovich could switch country. She is young enough that sitting out a year or two won't hurt her. And for some countries (especially the ex Soviet Union countries) she could get citizenship relatively easy, so her Olympic chances would not be that bad.

Appearently her family couldn´t get her to keep training in Moscow. I don´t think switching countries would be possible for her.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
But that was two years ago. Now she is 17, so she would be old enough to live on her own. Besides, it may not be even needed. Skating for another country does not necessarily mean living in another country, for example, Kvietevashvilly trains with Tutberidze while representing Georgia. Even Tutberidze's daughter got released to be able to represent a diffrent country (I believe also Georgia), even though she trains in Russia.
 
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moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
But that was two years ago. Now she is 17, so she would be old enough to live on her own. Besides, it may not be even needed. Skating for another country does not necessarily mean living in another country, for example, Kvietevashvilly trains with Tutberidze while representing Georgia. Even Tutberidze's daughter got released to be able to represent a diffrent country (I believe also Georgia), even though she trains in Russia.

Kvitelashvili most likely had the citizenship though, as he is georgian.
To GET citizenship of a random unrelated country (and the ex soviet republics ARE unrelated, they wont give you the citizenship just because you are russian), its a whole different story which commonly requires speaking the local language and living in the country for some time.
And citizenship is required for olympics.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Kvitelashvili most likely had the citizenship though, as he is georgian.
To GET citizenship of a random unrelated country (and the ex soviet republics ARE unrelated, they wont give you the citizenship just because you are russian), its a whole different story which commonly requires speaking the local language and living in the country for some time.
And citizenship is required for olympics.
It seems that some countries give it more easily than others. I am not saying to choose the country randomly, she would have to do her own research, but considering how many skaters have switched countries over the last few years, it can't be impossible. I don't think Kvietevashvilly had the Georgian citizenship before, unless he had dual citizenship, because at some stage he was representing Russia so he must have had Russian citizenship.
 

silverfoxes

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
There is the issue of financial support when it comes to representing another country. I don't think most of those small feds are able to provide much help at all...that was apparently why Maria Artemieva ultimately didn't switch and decided to retire instead. And it was one of the main reasons why Misha Ge retired as well - there was basically no support from the Uzbekistani fed. It's not really that easy.
 

ejnsofi

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
It seems that some countries give it more easily than others. I am not saying to choose the country randomly, she would have to do her own research, but considering how many skaters have switched countries over the last few years, it can't be impossible. I don't think Kvietevashvilly had the Georgian citizenship before, unless he had dual citizenship, because at some stage he was representing Russia so he must have had Russian citizenship.

Moris' parents are Georgian. In this case applying for citizenship was just a matter of paperwork.
Also the majority of skaters who switched countries were ice dancers or pairs and in their cases it was easier as their partners were foreigners and they represented different country before.
Also as it was said earlier money is important. Sima's family already had problems with it and if she changed federations she would lose grants from government. Also the question is: which country would she represent? Does she have roots or connections with any other country? I doubt she has
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Moris' parents are Georgian. In this case applying for citizenship was just a matter of paperwork.
Also the majority of skaters who switched countries were ice dancers or pairs and in their cases it was easier as their partners were foreigners and they represented different country before.
Also as it was said earlier money is important. Sima's family already had problems with it and if she changed federations she would lose grants from government. Also the question is: which country would she represent? Does she have roots or connections with any other country? I doubt she has

Ivan Rigini, Nicole Gosviani, Anna Ovcharova, Polina Shelepen, ... that's not only pairs and dancers. Those were singles skaters. I don't know what country. Any country that would have her.
Regarding her finances, it doesn't have to be any problem at all, as long as she stays physically where she is. Changing country doesn't have to mean that she will actually move. Considering that she is not on national team, the Russian federation is not paying her anythin, so nothing will change.
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Ivan Rigini, Nicole Gosviani, Anna Ovcharova, Polina Shelepen, ... that's not only pairs and dancers. Those were singles skaters. I don't know what country. Any country that would have her.
Regarding her finances, it doesn't have to be any problem at all, as long as she stays physically where she is. Changing country doesn't have to mean that she will actually move. Considering that she is not on national team, the Russian federation is not paying her anythin, so nothing will change.

Well, lets start:
One of Righini's parents is italian, so he could apply for citizenship just like that.
Nikol Gosviani's husband is italian (she married an italian pair skater in 2016), so she can get italian citizenship easy. Her parents are georgian.
Anna Ovcharova didnt need swiss citizenship (and not sure if she ever got it). Which means she couldnt go to olympics.
Polina Shelepen is part jewish (she said the switch to Israel was because of family connections).

All those single skaters except Anna have family connections with the countries to which they switched.
Anna could not get the citizenship and could not participate in olympics. Also, I suppose she could only skate for switzerland because her family lived there (i suppose based on interviews) and actually could afford to pay for her living, studying and training in switzerland. She said in an interview:
"My Dad was abroad most of the time, working, and it was really hard for me because we didn't see each other. I lived in Moscow, with my parents coming and going so I rarely saw them. So we decided it wouldn't work like that, our family needed to be together."
Which means her father likely worked there or something like that.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
And you assume that Serafima does not have any family connections to any country? When there was USSR, the nationality of the countries belonging to USSR were mixing quite a lot. I would be surprised if Serafima did not manage to find at least one grandmother from any of other those other countries. I think having ancestor like that is not at all unusual.
 

janav

On the Ice
Joined
May 17, 2014
And you assume that Serafima does not have any family connections to any country? When there was USSR, the nationality of the countries belonging to USSR were mixing quite a lot. I would be surprised if Serafima did not manage to find at least one grandmother from any of other those other countries. I think having ancestor like that is not at all unusual.

You are right that back in the USSR times, nationalities mixed a lot. But the notion that a Russia born, Russia raised and Russian speaking girl with, say, Estonian ancestry could just apply for Estonian citizenship and get it without actually speaking the language or living on its territory just on the grounds of ancestry is wrong. If this girl had a parent with, again, say Estonian citizenship, it could be different story but I'm assuming Serafima's parents are both Russian - there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. So I don't really see Serafima switching countries any time soon.
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
And you assume that Serafima does not have any family connections to any country? When there was USSR, the nationality of the countries belonging to USSR were mixing quite a lot. I would be surprised if Serafima did not manage to find at least one grandmother from any of other those other countries. I think having ancestor like that is not at all unusual.

Well, to get citizenship, you usually need a parent, and not a grandparent.
The admixture is actually not that huge - yes, there are mixed families, but people usually stayed close to where they lived or at least to their culture.
So well, what you say is reasonably unusual: having all 4 grandparents born in russia is the usual thing.

Last but not least, not all the ex-republics are on friendly terms with Russia currently, and in many, russians or almost are totally not welcome. Following janav's example. Suppose she had some Estonian ancestry. That would a citizenship she would have trouble to get, as many people who were actually born in Estonia and still do not have a proper citizenship (just google for the stories, its actually kinda creepy)

Based on Sakhanovich last name i suppose she *could* have some jewish or lets say belorussian connections, but I don't think its enough for citizenship.
 

Tutto

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
You are right that back in the USSR times, nationalities mixed a lot. But the notion that a Russia born, Russia raised and Russian speaking girl with, say, Estonian ancestry could just apply for Estonian citizenship and get it without actually speaking the language or living on its territory just on the grounds of ancestry is wrong. If this girl had a parent with, again, say Estonian citizenship, it could be different story but I'm assuming Serafima's parents are both Russian - there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. So I don't really see Serafima switching countries any time soon.

Actually you are wrong here - the principle of jus sanguinis applies -anyone who can prove that his parents or grandparents lived in Estonian Republic prior to 1940 can get a citizenship but those who were born in Estonia to non native parents has to go through a naturalisation to become a citizen. So if lets say Sima had a grandmother who lived in pre-war Estonia she could easily get a citizenship and she would not even need to live in the country
 
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