Who would likely get hit by puberty? | Golden Skate

Who would likely get hit by puberty?

OmNomNomNom

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 30, 2017
Hi guys, a new fs fan here. A burning question I hope some experts on this website can share their opinions on:

I've seen plenty recent cases of girls, particular Russian ones, receiving the blunt of puberty to the point of losing everything they've learnt since childhood and being forced to either re-learn all from scratch or giving up their elite status altogether. So one must beg the question what factors could constitute to such heartbreaks. Obviously it's mostly genes, but which aspects? Is it gender? Body type? Ethnicity? Living condition? etc.

Does pre pubescent height determine how one's physical attributes could change? Polina and Maria are so tall now and could be seen struggling with it. I'd argue this is the case for Anna too.
But then smaller girls like Yulia and Elena did not fare much better themselves.
Maybe weight has something to do with it? Evgenia was already stick thin back then and her legs only seem to grow thinner every day. But Yulia was slim too and we saw how that went.


Still, that's only looking at the Russian pool. The rate of girls dealing with puberty issues seems to be much lower in Asia when compared to that of Russia. I can think of only Rika and maybe Kanako? outgrowing their frames, and that's only by a small margin in comparison. Perhaps ethnicity might also play a part?


And we're not even looking at the men. Nam Nguyen is the only case I could think of who suffered from drastic body changes. Anyone else I'm missing here? If the number is indeed smaller for male skaters, why do you think this came to be? What physical features do men possess to be able to limit the damages of puberty?


One touchy factor I could think of: diet, and the availability of food. Do you think Yulia's pre-Sochi diet to prolong her junior physiques actually made it worse for her later on in terms of the extent of her growth? And what do you think about the opinion that skaters coming from better-off families might have more access to higher-calorie food with unhealthy content which could negatively affect their growth?
 

tennisguy

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Height is definitely a problem for singles skaters and most successful male singles skaters are 5'8" or shorter but average height for males is 5'10". Longer limbs and more body to pull around in the air and organize on landing - similar to any other sport that involves rotation (diving, gymnastics, etc) - makes being taller more difficult not to mention the spin positions and tight footwork turns and body movements. Changes in body shape in both men and women can have an impact on their skating ability. Generally speaking, as girls hit puberty and their hips widen and they gain more body fat and their centre of gravity changes dramatically so they do have to relearn or adjust their jumps which can be particularly difficult if they have flaws in their technique before puberty. For the boys puberty can be the advantage needed to master the more difficult jumps, particularly the 3A. The gains in upper body muscles and overall strength, when properly trained can really help increase the height and control in the jumps and other aspects of skating.
 

ejnsofi

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
Hi guys, a new fs fan here. A burning question I hope some experts on this website can share their opinions on:

I've seen plenty recent cases of girls, particular Russian ones, receiving the blunt of puberty to the point of losing everything they've learnt since childhood and being forced to either re-learn all from scratch or giving up their elite status altogether. So one must beg the question what factors could constitute to such heartbreaks. Obviously it's mostly genes, but which aspects? Is it gender? Body type? Ethnicity? Living condition? etc.

Does pre pubescent height determine how one's physical attributes could change? Polina and Maria are so tall now and could be seen struggling with it. I'd argue this is the case for Anna too.
But then smaller girls like Yulia and Elena did not fare much better themselves.
Maybe weight has something to do with it? Evgenia was already stick thin back then and her legs only seem to grow thinner every day. But Yulia was slim too and we saw how that went.


Still, that's only looking at the Russian pool. The rate of girls dealing with puberty issues seems to be much lower in Asia when compared to that of Russia. I can think of only Rika and maybe Kanako? outgrowing their frames, and that's only by a small margin in comparison. Perhaps ethnicity might also play a part?


And we're not even looking at the men. Nam Nguyen is the only case I could think of who suffered from drastic body changes. Anyone else I'm missing here? If the number is indeed smaller for male skaters, why do you think this came to be? What physical features do men possess to be able to limit the damages of puberty?


One touchy factor I could think of: diet, and the availability of food. Do you think Yulia's pre-Sochi diet to prolong her junior physiques actually made it worse for her later on in terms of the extent of her growth? And what do you think about the opinion that skaters coming from better-off families might have more access to higher-calorie food with unhealthy content which could negatively affect their growth?

First of all it's gender. Women's body change more drastically during puberty than men's. It's not only the matter of gaining weight but also the matter of places where fat tissue accumulates (breasts and hips). The location of centre of gravity moves and it causes the problems with stability during spinning and jumping. Ethnicity also is important. I think Europeans (in terms of Russian girls Slavic to be precise) have a tendency to have a real "growth sprout". I'm Polish but in middle school I grew 12 cm in one year and a lot of friends had similar experience. I guess Asians' growth is more stable and there is no sudden, drastic change but I might be wrong (please correct me if I am)

Pre-pubescent height may have some influence but it's not a rule. I've always been tall and my growth sprout was the end of my growing up so at the age of 14 I reached 178 cm and it hasn't changed since. Usually people who are tall as children are tall as adults too but I know a man who was the tallest boy in his class is primary school but stopped growing quite early and now he is below average. My cousin was always petite girl but she has tall parents so she grew a lot during puberty and now she is taller than me.

Also each case is individual. Polina's problems are associated with her knee's disorder which runs in her family (or at least she said so in the interview). Elena had problems but her body changed really drastically but slowly she is coming back. Please don't forget that she was able to qualify to GPF this season. Yulia's problems are mostly mental and have its source in sudden fame and conflict with her trainer.

And I don't think family's economical situation plays a role as diets are designed individually for each skater by dietitian
 

OmNomNomNom

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 30, 2017
whole post


Yeah I definitely have first-hand experience when it comes to drastic height change after puberty. I was the smallest girl in class during elementary years and grew to become a relatively tall one among peers. Of course ethnicity definitely is important because I'm no where near as tall as you guys though.
 

koatcue

Medalist
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Country
Russia
People forget that Yulia and other girls didn't "disappear", as you put it, but it's hard for them, for different reasons(mental, growing etc) to show 100% all the time, and that's what it takes to be in the spot light here. The field is competitive as nowhere else with close Japan in second. Otherwise, things are quite typical everywhere - anybody can have a huge spurt, eating issues and so on. It's an individual sport and every girl's case should be examined individually too. Can't generalize here.
 

OmNomNomNom

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 30, 2017
People forget that Yulia and other girls didn't "disappear", as you put it,

Can you kindly point out to me where I put it? Because it seems I'm unable to read my own writing


It's an individual sport and every girl's case should be examined individually too. Can't generalize here.

I do agree that it's not a good practice to generalise. But when you see a pattern it's bound to raise correlation and speculation. If there had been fewer girls than men, or fewer Russian girls than those from other countries, who encounter this problem, I might not have been so puzzled by the trend.
 

ejnsofi

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
I also think the other problem is Russian field depths.

Elena didn't have terrible season. She won two medals in GP series and is a winner of Winter Universiade 2017. In some less competitive country she'd still be top girl but she bombed nationals so she didn't appear at Europeans and Worlds. She dealt with puberty quite well but the competition she had to face in Russia was merciless and there are girls who are just waiting for your smallest mistake.

If you can't deal with your body's changes RusFed won't cry after you - there are other girls who can replace you in national team
 

OmNomNomNom

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 30, 2017
I also think the other problem is Russian field depths.

Elena didn't have terrible season. She won two medals in GP series and is a winner of Winter Universiade 2017. In some less competitive country she'd still be top girl but she bombed nationals so she didn't appear at Europeans and Worlds. She dealt with puberty quite well but the competition she had to face in Russia was merciless and there are girls who are just waiting for your smallest mistake.

If you can't deal with your body's changes RusFed won't cry after you - there are other girls who can replace you in national team


This really is another beef of mine when it comes to the dark side of fs. Humans aren't made to be perfect, they're not in top condition all the time (with the exception of Zhenya), so it's always heartbreaking to see someone being neglected/dismissed due to reasons out of their control preventing them from performing their best. every. time.
 

koatcue

Medalist
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Country
Russia
Can you kindly point out to me where I put it? Because it seems I'm unable to read my own writing

Oh, you are welcome. Disappeared from the big stage, I meant.

I've seen plenty recent cases of girls, particular Russian ones, receiving the blunt of puberty to the point of losing everything they've learnt since childhood and being forced to either re-learn all from scratch or giving up their elite status altogether.
But then smaller girls like Yulia and Elena did not fare much better themselves.
Maybe weight has something to do with it? Evgenia was already stick thin back then and her legs only seem to grow thinner every day. But Yulia was slim too and we saw how that went.
 

ejnsofi

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
This really is another beef of mine when it comes to the dark side of fs. Humans aren't made to be perfect, they're not in top condition all the time (with the exception of Zhenya), so it's always heartbreaking to see someone being neglected/dismissed due to reasons out of their control preventing them from performing their best. every. time.

It's a dark side of every competitive sport. Having limited number of slots you choose the best of the best. It's not high school PE. Here we have money, sponsors and medals and you don't get "a for effort medal" at Olympics
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Elena has gotten through puberty pretty darn well. Her jumps haven't gone off the rails like Yulia's. Elena's weakness is her sloppyness in an insanely deep field. Puberty has probably made her landings rougher, but that's not nearly as bad as it could be, considering how much Yulia and Serafima have struggled.

Girls are at their peak jumping ability at 13-14 before they start growing. But really, I love watching grown women skate! More nuance, sophistication, maturity.

Evgenia is thin, but her body has developed quite a bit. So that's good.

I hope all skaters do not risk their health in efforts to deal/cope with their growing bodies.
 

OmNomNomNom

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 30, 2017
It's a dark side of every competitive sport. Having limited number of slots you choose the best of the best. It's not high school PE. Here we have money, sponsors and medals and you don't get "a for effort medal" at Olympics

Sure, if you look at it that way :confused2: After all, this is an unfair world where those naturally blessed with more advantages in various forms will almost always emerge from the rest of us common folks. It's still a depressing thought nonetheless
 

OmNomNomNom

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 30, 2017
Oh, you are welcome. Disappeared from the big stage, I meant.

Well, I was talking about the most extreme cases, and in Yulia's case she DID get replaced fairly quickly by younger and newer talents until puberty hit THOSE as well. Elena did better in comparison, so she wasn't who I meant when I said "giving up their elite status altogether"
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Having 5 sisters and teaching dance for as long as I did, I don't take this subject lightly. IMO, it has to do with genetics more than anything else. Look at Sasha Cohen, she was tiny from the beginning of her career to the very end. In fact, when she made her final appearance at Nationals, she may have been the thinnest she had ever been. Alissa Czisny was the same way. She grew in height but, she never had an ounce of extra weight. I would say from a "Body" standpoint. Carolina Zhang's body has changed the most since I first saw her. I don't know if it was puberty or lack of interest but, Anne Patrice McDonough looked like a different person between 2001 when I saw her as a Junior and then again during her last season as a senior.

It also happened to Evan Lysacek. I saw him, along with Jonny Weir in 2001 and they were exactly the same height. By the time Evan won in 2008, he was like an amazon.
 
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Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I am not sure I got the same question; I though we want names of those who we thinkmight hit puberty. I always wondered about Medveda - has she hit puberty - she is more curvy or muscular than when we first saw her. I am hoping she is finished so she can make a run at the olympics. Yulia did not do well at all. Not sure about Sotnikova. RAdinova grew a lot but while her landings are rough I give her full props for staying tough and competitive. Usuaully with men puberty can often help. That Canadian little boy who can't even compete in juniors but doing the 3a and 4s his jumps don't have the amplitude - height, distance and speed but he can turn fast - we'll see if some more muscle helps or not but it might be quite a few years still. (Stephen G?) Polina T has had issues. I wonder if Alina Z. who is the new Russian hope will survive puberty or at least have it start after the olympics because she could lose everything. Nam from Canada is the exception where puberty hit a man hard and really messed up his skating. But I think the problem there was that he grew - fast, really really fast whereas Evan was slower and Evan had more muscle to start with. I am not too concerned about Eteri's up and coming army as they are too young to compete at the olympic stage but yes, they will have to deal with puberty and I am sure there will be some casualties. Agreed genetics family and even race do play a key role in puberty, growth and such. But there are always exceptions ie Nam is tall for an Asian person.
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Hi guys, a new fs fan here. A burning question I hope some experts on this website can share their opinions on:

I've seen plenty recent cases of girls, particular Russian ones, receiving the blunt of puberty to the point of losing everything they've learnt since childhood and being forced to either re-learn all from scratch or giving up their elite status altogether.

You are, may be, new but the argument is tiresome: "the puberty affect mostly Russian youngsters". There were some other variations to this: like brilliant Japanese youngsters and "girls de jour" from Russia.

In fact, it is very individual: when it starts and how it affects a skater. Wakaba might have the effect, Rika Hongo. I think just in one year Marin Honda grew visibly taller. Is she going to be immune against puberty? We shall see the next couple of seasons. She is what, 15 now? Liz Tursynbaeva is 17? Will she always look like she looks now?

Gracie looked very different pre-Sochi than after - no one here raised the puberty issue with respect to her for some reason.

In fact there are very few skaters in the world who can claim that the puberty is over for them and who are still in top-10: Ashley, Carolina, Anna. Then there are some who are near top-10 but who usually do not get into national teams these days: Liza, Rika, Mirai. Russians are in both lists.

Interesting that there was a big outcry here to raise the age for senior competitions to 17-18 just 1 year ago. Russian youngsters were the primary reason. Somehow it has stopped recently. Well, Anna is 19, Zhenya is going to be 18 in the fall. At the same time the only one in Japan now is Satoko - the rest are "sonograms".
 

sarama

Medalist
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
A significant height or weight change will always affect a skater, they often say it's like waking up in a different body, nothing works the same way anymore. I believe that if they have good technique and the will to push through the difficult times, adjusting should be doable. Look a Tuktamysheva, her jumps were a mess when her body changed, but with some patience and health she got them back, she wasn't rotating as fast but she was more powerful (whatever issues she has now they are unrelated to puberty obviously). In general a late puberty is not going to help, because changes will happen faster and any technique adjustments get delayed as well, but sometimes it's inevitable due to genetics or simply due the amount of training. It shouldn't be deliberate though, and I think in many cases it is.
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
It happens to everyone and it effects them all differently. With me, it effected my ability to leap/jump for about 6 months. I never lost my flexibility but, for some reason I could not get the height in my leaps they way that I used to. It was actually a bit scary. I had big switch leaps and Russian Split Jumps and during the summer between 10th and 11th grade. I lost the ability get the loft in my leaps they way that I used to. My ballet teacher told us it was normal but, it didn't really make me feel better. I went to the gym and started doing squats and lunges with extra weight. That definitely helped me get the height back but, it cost me in the flexibility department. It was a vicious cycle and though it's normal, in my case, it didn't ease my fears. Fortunately, my ballet teacher was also like a therapist for us and her Russian accent seemed to ease the pain....:drama:
 
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blackey

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Also, some boys get severe affect by their puberty as well, like Sota and Nam, not exactly the same affect as the girl have but still gonna take them a while to get back. It's just a very tricky thing and very different for each person.
 

ejnsofi

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
From what I know Medvedeva already had her puberty growth sprout. At least it's what Eteri said when reporters asked her if she wasn't afraid that Med's body would chance. Apparently Zhenya has always been petite and tiny so it's possible she will stay this way.

Actually puberty is not only an enemy of Russian girls. Kanako Murakami was doing great as a junior but when she was around 16-17 years old she started struggling.
 
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