2018-19 Russian Pairs' figure skating | Page 8 | Golden Skate

2018-19 Russian Pairs' figure skating

Lana05

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Ahanteva/Kolesov 1st after sp with 58.64 (finally clean and Must watchable, they were really cool this time)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZXkhGkLDF0
Can't find Kvartalova/Sviatchenko sp video but they got 64.56 (1st)
Lyirova/Selkin recieved 56.92 (2nd) at their 1st event togerther, not bad
 

Lana05

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Senior
1 Kvartalova/Sviatchenko 169.40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-uLLPu951M
3 falls in FS on 3T, 3Loth and a wierd fall on the last spin, so they got 0 for it. They still have time for improvment till JNats and Senior Nats.

2 Tatiana Lyirova/Maksim Selkin 163.12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=546UBh6LbAc&t=152s
They won FS, both throws are slightly 2footed, fall on 3S but strong base, they need more polishment

3 Sofia Buzaeva/Elisey Ivanov 162.00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x0UtQOPQPU
It was a dirty skate with asychronous jumps, not clean throws.. But I can see big potential, they have all elements including triples. So good luck!

Junior
1 Anastasia Mishina/Alexandr Gallyamov 171.92 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-nxJt8Hvbg
Not as clean as they were last week at SPB Cup 3 but they won

2 Alina Ustimkina/Nikita Volodin 160.20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv9wurDUK4s
The biggest problem for them are jumps

3 Ksenia Ahanteva/Valeriy Kolesov 158.88 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNSVk6DaCGc
All jumps are UR, fall on 3LoTh

4 Elizaveta Zhuk/Egor Bitkov 151.10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7sz1nMiiKw
I think they will split up because Liza has jumps while Egor has problems with them and he is too old for her. He feel on first st, and they attemped 3lzTh

5 Ekaterina Belova/Maksim Bobrov 144.64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaqHhIoIgp4
They were 4th in fs(their TES was 2nd behind only M/G). They could be top team in near future
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
I find it sad when senior team won’t qualify for Russian nationals because so many junior teams decided to do both junior and senior nationals. There is 12 places at the senior nationals. 4 are given to those 4 pairs who have GP events. Other 4 are for those who qualified to JGPF. Then there are pairs like Lyirova/Selkin who were not even good enough to get a JGP spot and will probably qualify for senior nationals, and Kvartalova/Sviatchenko who is getting second chance to qualify for senior nationals (they didn’t get to JGPF). And then Buzaeva/Ivanov, who are not junior eligible any more, will miss out on their chance of nationals. Don’t get me wrong, Buzaeva/Ivanov are not great, but it is her only second season as a pair skater, they are new together (only first season together ) and considering that, their scores are pretty decent. Maybe Russian seniors pairs wouldn’t look so empty if the senior pairs were suppored to actually develop, rather than fighting with junior pairs who are now quite overcrowded. And yet it would be so easy to resolve that - to make a rule that the skaters can attend either junior or senior Russian cups, but not both. The same rule is in singles and ice dance.
 

Lana05

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
It's typical for all countries when junior figure skaters competing with senior. They need more experience in front of big audience at big events. The only solution I can see is to enlarge spots from 18 to 24 in each descipline exept ice dance( JGP finalists and another junior ice dancers don't participate there).
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
It's typical for all countries when junior figure skaters competing with senior. They need more experience in front of big audience at big events. The only solution I can see is to enlarge spots from 18 to 24 in each descipline exept ice dance( JGP finalists and another junior ice dancers don't participate there).

The problem is that senior pairs don’t have 18 spots, they have only 12 spots. So if you have 4 pairs at GP (qualify automatically) and 4-5 pairs get to JGPF (also qualify automatically), that doesn’t leave many spots for genuine senior pairs who didn’t get a GP event. I would let those who qualified to JGPF have a spot at senior nationals, but I wouldn’t let any additional junior pairs get to senior nationals, especially if those pairs were not even good enough to get a JGP event.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ64EHjLErI

Wow! Another pair with insane twist and throw! Don't know about their jumping abilities.

Don’t get too excited. They train with Pavlova, which means that this partnership won’t last. The girl will either get anorexia like a few previous Pavlova’s female pair skaters (Iliuschetchkina, Antipova), or she will be so scared to make a mistake on jumps that she will become a headcase (Martiusheva, Iliuschetchkina , Efimova, Atakhanova). On the positive note, Pavlova’s skaters usually have a very good basic skating (very good transitions between the elements) and good speed, so they are very watchable, while it last.

I am very curious what Pavlova managed to do with Kudryavtseva/Spiridonov. They were on the starting list for Russian cup 2 and then they didn’t compete. Injured already?
 

Lana05

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
There were many promising pairs at this event, I liked many of them, but first need to see fs
 

puremagic

-
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Don’t get too excited. They train with Pavlova, which means that this partnership won’t last. The girl will either get anorexia like a few previous Pavlova’s female pair skaters (Iliuschetchkina, Antipova), or she will be so scared to make a mistake on jumps that she will become a headcase (Martiusheva, Iliuschetchkina , Efimova, Atakhanova). On the positive note, Pavlova’s skaters usually have a very good basic skating (very good transitions between the elements) and good speed, so they are very watchable, while it last.

I am very curious what Pavlova managed to do with Kudryavtseva/Spiridonov. They were on the starting list for Russian cup 2 and then they didn’t compete. Injured already?

Is Pavlova really so strict? I have heard Eteri is strict too, but somehow her girls show stable results and not becoming the headcases. And what about Zaitsev? They're still working together?
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Is Pavlova really so strict? I have heard Eteri is strict too, but somehow her girls show stable results and not becoming the headcases. And what about Zaitsev? They're still working together?

Strict? That depends on point of view. If you were a male partner, you may think she is quite reasonable. If you are the female partner, you wouldn’t use term strict, you would use ‘emotionally abusive’. If you are a parent of her girl skater, you may have some doubts whether this all was worth it, when you are trying to get your daughter to some clinic in Israel to save her life. And the most amazing is that those male partners are just standing there doing nothing. (Where were you, Maisuradze, when this was going on?)

I am not sure if it is helpful comparing Eteri and Pavlova. The difference is that Eteri at least has some decent results in recent years. Pavlova’s results are mostly in juniors, and not anywhere close as good as Eteri’s results. All she managed recently is that the skaters are good for one or two seasons (mostly at junior level), then the girl stops landing jumps she was consistently landing before and her life becomes hell. From what happened to Iliuschetchkina and Antipova one can get pretty good idea what is going on.

If you are asking me how I know that this pair won’t last, well, which of the pairs in the last ten years lasted, without her getting ill or completely losing her jumps? Even Iliuschetchkina, who is now a part of one of the top Canadian pairs, suddenly couldn’t land her jumps when getting Pavlova’s ‘treatment’. She was good one or two seasons, won junior worlds and became a headcase. Another of her pairs, Martiusheva/Rogonov, they were second at junior worlds, and then suddenly the girl could not land anything. Look at Efimova/Korovin. She skated in singles and had all her triples. Now she struggles to land even one triple! Luckily, they moved to Moskvina before this season, but it may take ages to fix her head, if it is at all fixable.
 

Lana05

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
When I'm reading hanca's messages it's like reading yellow media... So much drama out from nowhere.. Please, relax and don't be so pessimistic
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8HGeeWSjzw I liked them even more. Sofia Buzaeva/Elisey Ivanov. Hope to see them at RN. Fingers crossed

They look very promising. Considering that they are together only first season and she hasn’t been doing pairs that long, their marks are pretty decent. However, it will be very hard to get to senior nationals. There is only 12 spots at the nationals, 4 are taken by those who had GP events and other 4 are taken by those who got into JGPF. So that leaves only 4 spots, and there is several junior pairs who decided to do both junior and senior events and get into junior and senior nationals, so that makes it quite hard for genuine senior pairs to get to the nationals. They were 3rd at their previous russian cup event. If they get second place here, it will be very hard to get into the nationals (unless some of the juniors who got into JGPF decide that they don’t want to compete in senior nationals - that would open more spots).
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
When I'm reading hanca's messages it's like reading yellow media... So much drama out from nowhere.. Please, relax and don't be so pessimistic

I am not being dramatic. I am factually describing the outcomes of Pavlova’s coaching. It is sad, but let’s call it for what it is - abuse. If you think it is too pessimistic, can you name at least one recent Pavlova’s pair that made it? Just one...
 

puremagic

-
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Strict? That depends on point of view. If you were a male partner, you may think she is quite reasonable. If you are the female partner, you wouldn’t use term strict, you would use ‘emotionally abusive’. If you are a parent of her girl skater, you may have some doubts whether this all was worth it, when you are trying to get your daughter to some clinic in Israel to save her life. And the most amazing is that those male partners are just standing there doing nothing. (Where were you, Maisuradze, when this was going on?)

I am not sure if it is helpful comparing Eteri and Pavlova. The difference is that Eteri at least has some decent results in recent years. Pavlova’s results are mostly in juniors, and not anywhere close as good as Eteri’s results. All she managed recently is that the skaters are good for one or two seasons (mostly at junior level), then the girl stops landing jumps she was consistently landing before and her life becomes hell. From what happened to Iliuschetchkina and Antipova one can get pretty good idea what is going on.

If you are asking me how I know that this pair won’t last, well, which of the pairs in the last ten years lasted, without her getting ill or completely losing her jumps? Even Iliuschetchkina, who is now a part of one of the top Canadian pairs, suddenly couldn’t land her jumps when getting Pavlova’s ‘treatment’. She was good one or two seasons, won junior worlds and became a headcase. Another of her pairs, Martiusheva/Rogonov, they were second at junior worlds, and then suddenly the girl could not land anything. Look at Efimova/Korovin. She skated in singles and had all her triples. Now she struggles to land even one triple! Luckily, they moved to Moskvina before this season, but it may take ages to fix her head, if it is at all fixable.

This is really very strange that each of her girls started to struggle with jumps. But more strange that she doesn't pay attention to this, I mean, doesn't even analyse her own results throughout the years. Hope Zaitsev is still with her. I guess he is a good cop, Pavlova is a bad cop. So without him...

I also read that Mozer is planning to end her coaching career after the Olympics. Of course there are a big coaching team, and Mozer is like a curator of this team, but still...
 

Lana05

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
I am not being dramatic. I am factually describing the outcomes of Pavlova’s coaching. It is sad, but let’s call it for what it is - abuse. If you think it is too pessimistic, can you name at least one recent Pavlova’s pair that made it? Just one...

I follow pair skating for only 2,5 years and started recently to look at it more close, so I simply don't remember. But jumps are the biggest problem for all teams. If you look at the most often mistakes in pairs among elite it's jumps. Many girls don't survive puberty and coach isn't a problem there. No conspiracy theory there.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
This is really very strange that each of her girls started to struggle with jumps. But more strange that she doesn't pay attention to this, I mean, don't even analyse her own results throughout the years. Hope Zaitsev is still with her. I guess he is a good cop, Pavlova is a bad cop. So without him...

I also read that Mozer is planning to end her coaching career after the Olympics. Of course there are a big coaching team, and Mozer is like a curator of this team, but still...
She seems to have the theory that girls are replaceable.
When Iliuschetchkina started struggling with anorexia, instead of her supporting Iliuschetchkina, she went to newspaper to air their dirty laundry! Iliuschetchkina dumped Maisuradze because he was sticking with Pavlova, and managed to get better. Pavlova did not waste any time and found a new partner for Maisuradze - a junior girl from singles, who had all triples and triple-triple combination. Within two years they were 8 at (senior) worlds. A year later, she lost her jumps and had anorexia too. From her interviews, Maisuradze always took Pavlova’s side. He never stood up for her, he was just standing there letting Pavlova do her ‘treatment’. They switched from Pavlova to Dmitriev, but it was too late for Antipova. Google her name if you have never heard of her - it is amazing that the doctors saved her. She was very close to dying. If you think Zaitsev is the ‘good cop’, where was he during this? I have to say, as a protective factor he failed.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
I follow pair skating for only 2,5 years and started recently to look at it more close, so I simply don't remember. But jumps are the biggest problem for all teams. If you look at the most often mistakes in pairs among elite it's jumps. Many girls don't survive puberty and coach isn't a problem there. No conspiracy theory there.

I follow pair skating for over 10 years. I have seen many promising pairs that I liked, and I can guarantee, with Pavlova they never lasted. The problem with Pavlova wasn’t that the girls lost their jumps due to puberty. The problem was that she did something with their head and if a skater doesn’t believe in themselves, the jumps just won’t happen. You see skaters who had all triples, and suddenly they are unable to land even one. One they can choose, so they will naturally choose their strongest jump, but, not even their strongest jump.
 

puremagic

-
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
She seems to have the theory that girls are replaceable.
When Iliuschetchkina started struggling with anorexia, instead of her supporting Iliuschetchkina, she went to newspaper to air their dirty laundry! Iliuschetchkina dumped Maisuradze because he was sticking with Pavlova, and managed to get better. Pavlova did not waste any time and found a new partner for Maisuradze - a junior girl from singles, who had all triples and triple-triple combination. Within two years they were 8 at (senior) worlds. A year later, she lost her jumps and had anorexia too. From her interviews, Maisuradze always took Pavlova’s side. He never stood up for her, he was just standing there letting Pavlova do her ‘treatment’. They switched from Pavlova to Dmitriev, but it was too late for Antipova. Google her name if you have never heard of her - it is amazing that the doctors saved her. She was very close to dying. If you think Zaitsev is the ‘good cop’, where was he during this? I have to say, as a protective factor he failed.


I follow pair skating for over 10 years. I have seen many promising pairs that I liked, and I can guarantee, with Pavlova they never lasted. The problem with Pavlova wasn’t that the girls lost their jumps due to puberty. The problem was that she did something with their head and if a skater doesn’t believe in themselves, the jumps just won’t happen. You see skaters who had all triples, and suddenly they are unable to land even one. One they can choose, so they will naturally choose their strongest jump, but, not even their strongest jump.

Yeah, I remember that pair at Worlds 2014, Antipova was very thin there...

Seems like Pavlova has a greater impact on people. Men: Maisuradze and Zaitsev are submitted to her. And girls are afraid of her like fire. What a powerful woman!
 
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