2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

samson · Oct 7, 2017

Well Mirai put up a great free skate today at Japan Open. She scored 134.69 which would have been a personal best if this was an official competition. No carrots. Level 4 steps. She lost some levels on her first two spins but it actually looks like her potential Base Value with all her jumps and level four everything is higher than Zagitova's base value. She was .55 shy of it today.

She looked great out there and even though the axel was two footed and messy she rotated it and stayed up.

I'd say this was a big step forward for her. She seemed really pleased with the score and if she can build on this kind of performance she could have really good momentum for the rest of the season. I hope she can build her PCS from here. It was great to see her hit everything after the axel error. That feels like a new Mirai to me.

Tolstoj · Oct 7, 2017

mrrice said:
I certainly hope not. I'd rather see her withdraw than go out and double all of her jumps. Even if she were to fall a couple of times, I think it would better for her to know that she has at least attempting these jumps in competition.

Honestly if she doesn't want to try why she didn't WD before the SP?

I think she has no fear to lose, and we've already seen that these minor competitions are helping her to restore the confidence. Hopefully she will be ready at Nationals.

Seruleane · Oct 7, 2017

I'm really hoping this is Mirai's year. The triple axel looks like it can be consistent with more practice, and I am loving that she is landing all her jumps and overall looking much more stable. I hope as the season goes on, she will be able to express herself a bit more in this program. The Miss Saigon music she's chosen is gorgeous with nice climactic parts and slow melodic/introspective moments, but Mirai looks so focused on her elements she is not really feeling or expressing the nuances of the music. I still remember the bubbly, effervescent teen that skated to Carmen in Vancouver. I don't expect her to be bubbly or effervescent, but I'd love to see Mirai rock the program both technically and emotionally. Here's hoping she can achieve that this season!

Erin S · Oct 7, 2017

Watching Mirai's Japan Open skate I really just got the sense that at some point a year or so ago she finally asked herself "why am I really doing this?" and came to the conclusion that there is no point in doing it anymore unless she's going to do it to win. And then spent the summer actually putting in the work necessary to make that happen. I have all the respect in the world for her and, while I agree there are still some issues to be worked out, I think the progress she has made since last year is phenomenal. So excited for her.

Eeyora · Oct 7, 2017

samson said:
Well Mirai put up a great free skate today at Japan Open. She scored 134.69 which would have been a personal best if this was an official competition. No carrots. Level 4 steps. She lost some levels on her first two spins but it actually looks like her potential Base Value with all her jumps and level four everything is higher than Zagitova's base value. She was .55 shy of it today.

She looked great out there and even though the axel was two footed and messy she rotated it and stayed up.

I'd say this was a big step forward for her. She seemed really pleased with the score and if she can build on this kind of performance she could have really good momentum for the rest of the season. I hope she can build her PCS from here. It was great to see her hit everything after the axel error. That feels like a new Mirai to me.

I agree! I definitely think she for sure has a great shot for the National Title this year. And a definite chance at the top ten for the Olympics. Particularly with Ashley’s URs, low level spins and habit of melting down at pre Olympic nationals and Karen’s inconsistency. But I hat is preventing her from being Mirai of 2010 is the lack of emoting. I am still waiting to see the old Mirai. It’s what other than previous URs that’s preventing her from being the overwhelming favorite and a World top 5. Maybe acting classes would help?

R.D. · Oct 7, 2017

Eeyora said:
I agree! I definitely think she for sure has a great shot for the National Title this year. And a definite chance at the top ten for the Olympics. Particularly with Ashley’s URs, low level spins and habit of melting down at pre Olympic nationals and Karen’s inconsistency. But I hat is preventing her from being Mirai of 2010 is the lack of emoting. I am still waiting to see the old Mirai. It’s what other than previous URs that’s preventing her from being the overwhelming favorite and a World top 5. Maybe acting classes would help?

Well...perhaps it's time to consider that "the old Mirai" may not ever be coming back - skaters evolve their styles over the years and Nagasu seems to me to now be a much more "serious" skater. Which is not necessarily bad - but, she needs a program in general that plays to that. If she doesn't, then the disconnect will (continue to) be evident. Especially with her newfound ambition in upping jump difficulty, etc.

artsciboy · Oct 7, 2017

Eeyora said:
I agree! I definitely think she for sure has a great shot for the National Title this year. And a definite chance at the top ten for the Olympics. Particularly with Ashley’s URs, low level spins and habit of melting down at pre Olympic nationals and Karen’s inconsistency. But I hat is preventing her from being Mirai of 2010 is the lack of emoting. I am still waiting to see the old Mirai. It’s what other than previous URs that’s preventing her from being the overwhelming favorite and a World top 5. Maybe acting classes would help?

Well if we are going to single out Ashley for her under rotations, it's only fair that we point out that Karen is prone to having carrot salads as well.

skylark · Oct 7, 2017

artsciboy said:
Well if we are going to single out Ashley for her under rotations, it's only fair that we point out that Karen is prone to having carrot salads as well.

As is Mirai.

loopy1217 · Oct 7, 2017

artsciboy said:
Well if we are going to single out Ashley for her under rotations, it's only fair that we point out that Karen is prone to having carrot salads as well.

I am new to figure skating, so I’ll ask a dumb question here: if the international scores show this problem consistently, is there a reason why USFS not do anything to help one or all of these ladies? I’m also surprise that Ashley has UR problems when she is training under Raf, supposedly a jump coach?

I’m also sorta Confuse of Tammy not helping Karen on jump landing, which has been a problem since I first saw her perform in 2015?

Eeyora · Oct 7, 2017

skylark said:
As is Mirai.

artsciboy said:
Well if we are going to single out Ashley for her under rotations, it's only fair that we point out that Karen is prone to having carrot salads as well.

Sorry couldn’t get the quotes in order. I’m new to this and I agree ALL THREE have had their share of underrotations. I sounded very critical of Diva Wagner even though she is my favorite. It just frustrates me that she loses so many levels. And last season was less than stellar. And she has such a difficult time finding a new program.

R.D. · Oct 7, 2017

MOST of the top US women were/are prone to UR. Gracie Gold was the only one who wasn't, but of course she had issues of her own.

That said, Wagner's URs (and occasionally other mistakes) kept her off of many podiums, hence the nickname "Almost Girl".

I’m also surprise that Ashley has UR problems when she is training under Raf, supposedly a jump coach?

Chronic issue. Affected her before she went to him. Honestly, at this point I think it's more a nerves issue than anything else, because she HAS demonstrated the capability before.

stella luna · Oct 7, 2017

I think it's hard to pull off a unitard. Polina's did match her classical music that's been given the disco treatment, but looks a bit dated. I couldn't tell if she has gained weight.

Loved Angela's "Rainbow" reprisal.

mrrice said:
I was very happy for Angela Wang and if Carolina didn't have a such a big reputation, I would have them reversed in placement. As for Polina, I don't like to say this but her Unitard looks like something off the rack at the local Capezio Shop. I have never been a fan of her costuming but good grief, when you live 30 minutes from San Francisco you need to take advantage of all the great designers and costume shops they have there.

I'm glad she made her debut in Finland instead of the prying eyes of the US Fans. I hope she can redeem herself in the free program. I know this is a US forum but, I want to give shout out to TUK!!!! She's back and I just love her.

mrrice · Oct 7, 2017

I was looking for a Pair's thread but, I don't think we have one. After seeing the scores from the US Pairs at Finlandia, I think the US needs to up our game in this category. I know we have Alexa and Chris, Brandon and Haven, and Cain and Leduc.....Do we have another strong pair??

skylark · Oct 7, 2017

^^^ The scores at Finlandia really didn't reflect the reality of Deanna Stellato / Nate Bartholomay's free skate. It was thrilling, with all the elements solid except their throw quad salchow, which is new, and which she fell on. It was really their only error, and everything else had panache and style. Deanna's posture is just stellar, and despite that they're another new team, like Ashley Cain and Timothy LeDuc, they're exciting.

The other thing is that their last couple of competition skates had been a struggle, including the SP at Finlandia. So this was a huge confidence builder for them. As was Cain/ LeDuc's FS at Nebelhorn. I love both teams.

:eek:

topic: I couldn't find a US Pairs thread either. Obviously.

klutzy · Oct 8, 2017

Polina clearly gained some weight during her time off. Some of it, I'm sure, was due to not being able to do her usual routine, but some is simply part of maturing. I've been watching recordings of her since July and, if anything, she's slimmed down since July.

I think the catsuit is, as much as anything, a response to the GWTW costume debacle--her styling, as much as anything, cost her the national championship--or, at least, she probably sees it that way. So she's looking at sleeker, more grown-up costumes. The catsuit's a nice contrast to her FS dress (which I think is beautiful.)

I like her grit--it's got to be so tough to come back during an Olympic year and struggling through jumps you found easy at 12. But each time she performs, there's a little more there. This time it was getting a triple-triple and not falling. Little more speed at the beginning, though stamina's still an issue.

Re: Nagasu, she doesn't need an acting coach as much as she needs to connect to *why* she's performing to a particular piece of music. Different skaters have different ways of connecting--with Medvedeva, it's all acting. With Gracie Gold, it was the sheer joy (or determination with Firebird) of actually skating and leaping. Polina likes to dance (her twizzles are more memorable than her jumps). Ashley Wagner has a connection with the audience.

Mirai just needs to remember why she's doing this and get that out during her performances.

skylark · Oct 8, 2017

klutzy said:
Re: Nagasu, she doesn't need an acting coach as much as she needs to connect to *why* she's performing to a particular piece of music. Different skaters have different ways of connecting--with Medvedeva, it's all acting. With Gracie Gold, it was the sheer joy (or determination with Firebird) of actually skating and leaping. Polina likes to dance (her twizzles are more memorable than her jumps). Ashley Wagner has a connection with the audience.

:agree: So very well said. With Karen, it's her connection with her music and the meaning of the program ... especially effective with her On Golden Pond FS last year.

skatenewbie · Oct 8, 2017

What's worse in US ladies UR issue is they also UR in solo triple jump. Its okay if you UR in your combo jump like 3-3 you lost few points only but if you UR other solo triple that's where it's costly. In JO i thought Karen wod have ~120 near 130 since she only falls once in second 3Lz but she actually got so many URs even though she landed all other jumps, her TES is only 55, but her 62 pcs is a bit too low imo

Blades of Passion · Oct 8, 2017

skatenewbie said:
In JO i thought Karen would have ~120 near 130 since she only falls once in second 3Lz but she actually got so many URs even though she landed all other jumps, her TES is only 55, but her 62 pcs is a bit too low imo

Those calls were so bad and undeserved though. She didn't get called at Worlds last season, so I'm going to hope the callers at Olympics are sane and see she isn't more than 1/4 short (except on that last lutz). This final lutz is the big problem for her right now. She jumps high and without pre-rotation, as the last Triple of the program. It's so hard to do and she gets punished for appearing short on the landing, even though her actual rotation in the air is still more than most ladies on the jump. Her team needs to figure out a way to make it work for her, hopefully without sacrificing the quality takeoff and height. Maybe just more stamina is needed and will build as the season progresses.

berry8 · Oct 8, 2017

BTW... I don't think that Emmy Ma can be considered a promising newcomer...
I have followed JGP ladies events quite a lot and the girl I consider the most promising of all is Ashley Lin...
She is younger than Emmy Ma (2 years younger) can jump 3-3 and has better SS than Starr.

Nguyen is a promising skater also but she messes up with jumps badly...

R.D. · Oct 8, 2017

klutzy said:
Re: Nagasu, she doesn't need an acting coach as much as she needs to connect to *why* she's performing to a particular piece of music. Different skaters have different ways of connecting ...

At the most BASIC level - the easiest way to connect with ANY skating audience is to hit your elements. The bigger/tougher, the better.

That said, if a deeper audience connection is important to a skater, then program choice is critical. The skater has to first know her style (that is, her "mood" or "vibe" on the ice - is she emotional? ... Joyful? ... Flashy? ... Subtle? ..), then her speed (fast? slow?) and finally, her comfort level (what does she like?) so her strengths can be maximized. What works great for one skater could very well be a poor fit for another. At the end of the day, if you convey that you enjoy skating and performing - the objective will be achieved.

2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

samson

Tolstoj

Seruleane

Erin S

Eeyora

R.D.

artsciboy

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

loopy1217

Eeyora

R.D.

stella luna

mrrice

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

klutzy

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

skatenewbie

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

berry8

R.D.

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