Boots and Spinning | Golden Skate

Boots and Spinning

QuirkyCorky

Rinkside
Joined
May 16, 2017
I wonder if anyone can help me. I take lessons in figure skating and also spend many hours teaching myself. For about a year now I have been trying to master a spin with no success. I am at the stage of learning Flip jumps and backward three turns and manage to learn all those things with practice fairly easily. I can't even do a basic spin.

I am wondering now if my boots are too long for my feet. I have to wear a boot a whole size bigger to fit my feet.

Today I examined the smooth ice and noticed that no matter how hard I try on the spin, my boot does a little backwards move at the three turn and I look and the 3 turn into the spin has a small loop on it.

I also am finding that when I bring my leg around to spin (after the three part) I go flying forward onto the toe rake. No matter how hard I try it impossible not to do this.

Can anyone explain why a small loop is being formed. When I skate normal three turns they don't do this. Would the boots being a bit too long cause this. Does anyone know if it is actually possible to do spins in boots which are too big. I've no idea whether it is my technique or the boot. I tried another boot last week which seems to have a more obvious rocker on it and is a shorter length on me but way too wide. I could feel myself spinning on the rocker so imagine this maybe be caused by my boots being too big.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
If you're taking lessons, you should get your instructor to look at your spins and figure out what's happening.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the three turn having a loop on it.

If you're doing an actual spin, there will be loops after the three turn entry. In a perfectly centered spin, the loops will be right on top of each other so they won't look so much like loops. In a spin that travels, you'll see a lot of loops strung out next to each other.

See the diagrams here:
http://iceskatingresources.org/Spins.pdf

If you're seeing one loop, it may be that you're doing a correct spin for one revolution and then losing the spin.

But why you can't hold it and whether that has anything to do with the size of your skates is a question to ask your instructor in person.
 

QuirkyCorky

Rinkside
Joined
May 16, 2017
I must ask my coach if she has an idea what is happening now that I have seen the tracings on the ice. It is at the cusp of the three turn, my foot is drawing a complete circle. So like a 3 figure but at the centre of the 3 is a complete circle and I can see my foot doing this at the turn ie drawing a tiny circle just as I turn to the backward inside edge.
 

sandraskates

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
First off - I don't quite get the boots issues. Are you wearing rental skates?

Secondly, IMHO you're overthinking those tracings you see on the ice (those loops).
Where is your balance? You have to find your balance point in order to hold a spin. If your skates don't fit then you may be rocking around within the boot and losing the proper spin point on your blade. Thus, your "flying forward on the toe rake" issue.

Sounds more to me like you need to get fitted for proper boots and blades; probably custom if you have foot size challenges. That could make a world of difference in getting your spins consistent and mastered.
 

sk8momto1

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Why do you have to "wear a boot a whole size bigger to fit" your feet? Your boot should fit your feet - not too big and not too small. This might mean getting narrow or wide boots in order to fit your width in the boot that's the properly length. My daughter has to have her boots custom made because she has quite wide feet but with more narrow heels. Boots that don't fit properly can impact your performance and could cause injuries and problems with your feet and ankles.

Another poster asked if you are using rental skates. I am curious about this as well. I have never seen a rental skate that had a decent blade and was sharpened well. Or that offered much support. If that's what your using I could definitely see this impacting your spins. I once watched Olympians at a rink struggle to skate in a pair of rental skates.

A different blade with a difference rocker will feel different to you and might take some adjustment which might be what you noticed on the skates you tried on last week.
 
Last edited:

QuirkyCorky

Rinkside
Joined
May 16, 2017
I am wearing Risport Antares. I was just a beginner a few years back so bought the only pair of skating boots I could find that would fit my wide feet. I am hoping to go soon to try on skating boots and hopefully I will be able to get a pair that are the right length for my feet. I will ask about custom ones when I am there if I can't get a comfortable well fitting pair.

I have a feeling that I haven't really found my balance point SandraSkates as far as spins go. I have one of those Edea spinners and am not very good at it at all and can't really get my balance to spin more than a couple of times.

My coach said the same thing that I'm thinking too much about what my legs, feet etc. are doing. I'm an oldie so can't help it lol.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me. I really appreciate it :)
 

sandraskates

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
LOL - if it's any consolation to you QuirkyCorky, I'm a good spinner on the ice and I can't balance myself on one of those floor spinners!

I looked up your Risport Antares. They look like a beginner boot and if you've had them a few years, I suspect they are breaking down and now they are too big for you everywhere.
<I can't believe I'm going to say this but> For a stop-gap until you get new skates, try putting something like a balled-up sock between the toe of the boot and your foot where your toes begin to fill up the extra space.

When you feel yourself rocking up to the toe rake, try to move your weight back towards the ball of the foot. Eventually you'll find your sweet spot of balance. And don't look down when you spin!

When it's time to get your new skates, get yourself fitted properly; don't buy online. I have a wide foot and narrow heel so I have custom boots. You should probably upgrade your blades too.
If you feel like giving your general location some of the posters may be able to offer suggestions on where to get fitted for your new skates.
Good luck!
 

QuirkyCorky

Rinkside
Joined
May 16, 2017
Thanks sandraskates. My feet don't slide forward at all but that is a great idea to try and move the weight backwards a bit. I do tend to try things with too much speed and must slow it right down. I have also been thinking today that my natural way of turning, jumping etc would be clockwise but prior to taking ice skating lessons I took roller skating ones. Only for a short time, but in roller skating there seemed to be this thing of only turning and jumping anti-clockwise and any other way was wrong. I am thinking that over the next few weeks out of interest I will try learning to spin clockwise and see if that helps. I get less dizzy that way too. I noticed if I try to spin around in my socks on the kitchen floor I can stay much more balanced going clockwise. I am in Scotland and I've been told that there is a great shop in Dundee Ice Rink where I can try the boots on. My trip to Ayr was unsuccessful and they had hardly any skates in stock never mind my size. They wouldn't let me try the ones they had unless I intended on buying there and then so that wasn't much good.

Thanks again. I did used to be able to get three rotations okay and seem to have lost that so maybe it is my technique and my weight to far forward.
 

MiraiFan

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 6, 2016
It's not a three turn into the spin, but a hook. Practice the entry facing away from the wall, push off and bend your knees deeply for the hook and turn you shoulders all the way to the wall. Your free legs should come along with you after the push. Deep edge, deep knee bend otherwise you won't get any "spin".
 

QuirkyCorky

Rinkside
Joined
May 16, 2017
Thanks MiraiFan. I didn't realise I wasn't meant to be doing a three turn. I will try that exercise at the wall. I am going skating again on Sunday. Thanks so much :luv17:
 

QuirkyCorky

Rinkside
Joined
May 16, 2017
Ender, I have been trying to work out why my foot does this strange backwards forwards move of it's own accord right at the turn. It's that which causes the little circle. I know when I was learning to do three turns, I would do that sort of thing quite often so maybe it is just me doing the entry a bit too soon. About two weeks ago I managed one spin which felt like it went really fast and I must have rotated about four times. I tried to keep in my head what I did and I held the edge turning round much longer than I previously had. For some reason since that day and that one occasion, I can't repeat what I did. Maybe one day it will just click and I'll get it. Here's hoping.
 

Ender

Match Penalty
Joined
May 17, 2017
Ender, I have been trying to work out why my foot does this strange backwards forwards move of it's own accord right at the turn. It's that which causes the little circle. I know when I was learning to do three turns, I would do that sort of thing quite often so maybe it is just me doing the entry a bit too soon. About two weeks ago I managed one spin which felt like it went really fast and I must have rotated about four times. I tried to keep in my head what I did and I held the edge turning round much longer than I previously had. For some reason since that day and that one occasion, I can't repeat what I did. Maybe one day it will just click and I'll get it. Here's hoping.
You can fix it eventually. :luv17: maybe you just pay attention to the timing more.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
It's not a three turn into the spin, but a hook. Practice the entry facing away from the wall, push off and bend your knees deeply for the hook and turn you shoulders all the way to the wall. Your free legs should come along with you after the push. Deep edge, deep knee bend otherwise you won't get any "spin".


But isn't the hook actually just a very tight 3-turn (forward outside edge to back inside edge on the same foot)?
 
Last edited:

MiraiFan

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 6, 2016
My coach says no--it goes further "around" than a three turn... I think people teach it differently but this really helped me not rise too quickly and bring my free leg along into the spin (forward scratch).
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
My coach says no--it goes further "around" than a three turn... I think people teach it differently but this really helped me not rise too quickly and bring my free leg along into the spin (forward scratch).


Yeah, a subtlety not worth debating. Some would consider the hook to be a 3-turn in which you don't check coming out of the 3-turn. But, it you consider the check to be an integral part of the 3-turn, then the hook is not a 3-turn.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
I must ask my coach if she has an idea what is happening now that I have seen the tracings on the ice. It is at the cusp of the three turn, my foot is drawing a complete circle. So like a 3 figure but at the centre of the 3 is a complete circle and I can see my foot doing this at the turn ie drawing a tiny circle just as I turn to the backward inside edge.
Is the small circle actually a small oval loop? And is it a lighter tracing than the the main 3-turn cusp? If so, what is probably happening is that you are slightly too forward on your blade, and your drag pick (bottom pick) is lightly scraping the ice while you execute your 3-turn. The main cusp is traced by your rocker, and the small loop around the cusp is traced by your drag pick.
 

QuirkyCorky

Rinkside
Joined
May 16, 2017
I was figure skating yesterday and practicing doing tiny three turns but really holding the exit edge. When I come out of a three turn, I notice that I am leaning quite far forward. I don't know if this is something quite common or not. I've been trying really hard to hold my foot flat on the ice on the exit. I know that an entry to a spin is not a big smooth three turn but thought if I get that head upright position at the end of it then it might help the spin one.

I actually did one spin yesterday which seemed more balanced :)
 

QuirkyCorky

Rinkside
Joined
May 16, 2017
Thanks for that tstop4me. That makes sense. Yesterday I was trying to do tight three turns the way I normally do them (ie without trying to spin) and noticed the little loop bit wasn't there. I need to get my balance turning back into the spin better I think. I tried to put my shoulders back and nearly fell backwards. I think it's the knees I have to get more bent to get the spin started. That a guess but here's hoping. Each time I go skating I am going to spend more time on spins.
 

Ender

Match Penalty
Joined
May 17, 2017
Thanks for that tstop4me. That makes sense. Yesterday I was trying to do tight three turns the way I normally do them (ie without trying to spin) and noticed the little loop bit wasn't there. I need to get my balance turning back into the spin better I think. I tried to put my shoulders back and nearly fell backwards. I think it's the knees I have to get more bent to get the spin started. That a guess but here's hoping. Each time I go skating I am going to spend more time on spins.
Yes! Try your best to maintain a good balance and maybe put more weight backwards.
 
Top