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Thread: 2017 Scale of Value and Guidelines for GOE

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by chillgil View Post
    i actually think it would help a lot of people enjoy results of major competitions more if they realize that even if a skater falls during his/her performance and runs away with the gold, that there are a hundred more aspects to a program than just nicely landed jumps. in my opinion a skater with high level difficulty of both jumps and skating content (many transitions, steps, emotion,etc) who messes up in an aspect of their program is still the righteous winner above any skater who performs flawlessly with much lower content both technically and PCS categories wise. and i believe many casual skating fans feel that way too, at least i hope so
    My problem with this is that we're talking about an athletic competition in which virtually all of the risk in the program comes from the jumping passes. If you complete the risky elements and skate great, you should win. If you don't execute the risky elements well, you should be vulnerable and not get too big a scoring buffer from things like superior choreography or transitions.

  2. #62
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    but isnt that the whole point of the sport? I get that this is an athletic competition but there is an element of dance in it. Otherwise it would have dissolved to basic jumping competitions. if you do have superior choreography and other PCS then those are points that you've earned that make up for an marred jumping passes. also you could say that PCS has already been capped, as you will never get more than 100 points, but with TES you could theoretically reach an astronomical number.

    i totally get why some people want to say that the more athletic aspects to this sport should matter more, but i respectfully have to argue that there needs to be a balance between the intricacies and performance of figure skating, and the muscle-y/athletic parts. otherwise why even have figure skating? aren't there gymnastic floor routines that are made to solely focus on the jumps and flips made? what will be the difference between gymnastics and figure skating?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by chillgil View Post
    but that's the whole point of the sport, I get that this is an athletic competition but there is an element of dance in it. Otherwise it would have dissolved to basic jumping competitions. if you do have superior choreography and other PCS then those are points that you've earned that make up for an marred jumping passes.
    I agree that skaters should get points for the other things. What I liked about 6.0 was that, generally, the presentation mark was used to separate programs that were well skated. The Surya Bonalys of the world would lose to clean contenders but beat those who made mistakes. Now a major mistake isn't too costly for top competitors; Evgenia could have probably fallen twice and won worlds this year.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by chillgil View Post
    sorry to keep drudging up an argument with you but really "imperfect" is a subjective term especially in the case of figure skating where there are two different categories of how to assess a program. if you mess up in one category then you deserve to be marked down in that category only.

    if i fail a math class, why should my english grade go down as well?

    if tom brady has 5 interceptions in a football game and his team still wins, should the other team have won?

    i wont be delusional and say that there aren't any judges who score more subjectively rather than abide objectively by the rulebook, but that's only because the judges are human. we combat this human component by averaging out all the judges scores; i do think that there should be some sort of system that allows the judges to pick which bullets of the GOE criteria a skater accomplishes at the end of each element, just so that we can see they are thinking when they award too high/too low GOE. I also believe that there are judges who confuse PCS with the technical difficulty of jumps and give skaters who have very empty programs high PCS scores and that's obviously something the sport needs to fix in order to improve.

    but i think you are worried too much about what casual fans or even people who do not watch figure skating at all think. i agree that it is a little confusing for someone who is a casual viewer to watch a program with a fall and see that the skater won gold anyway, i do think that it is easy for that person to say "well that was a flawed skate, they do not deserve gold, this sport is rigged" because they don't know the rules or requirements that are required in a program. it's like i said before, the rules are not made for casual viewers, they are not made for our favorite skaters, they are made so that the most ambitious athletes in the sport get rewarded so that the sport can be pushed forward.

    i feel like i've said pretty much everything i need to so i promise, ill stop picking fights xD
    Our perception of perfection (or imperfection at that) differs.

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