Evgenia Medvedeva: 2016-17 season

icybear · May 25, 2017

Hi guys, I'm no Evgenia hater in fact she's one of my favourite skaters. But I came across this video showing a compilation of all of Evgenia lutz and the video says her edge is becoming worse and worse. Do you think Evgenia will ever correct it? I know she has said she knows about it and says she will but her lutz last year was at least on a flat edge but this year it's verging to the inside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7nSZAqD6Qs

breadstal · May 25, 2017

It's something that is really hard to fix, it took literally whole career for Mao to do this. I don't think it's really on her mind with Olympics season ahead, good that she's aware of that but I don't see her correcting it anytime soon. It's just sad how things like that are just not called and it's not only about Evgenia tbh, lack of edge calls @ this year's Worlds was just sad.

mrrice · May 25, 2017

I definitely think she will work hard to fix her Lutz. As a back to back World Champion, she is the clear favorite going into the Olympics. She and Eteri are well aware that she has a target on her back. Med has all momentum going into next season and barring an injury, I only see perfect skates by Osmond, Gabby, Wagner, Gold, or Kostner as having any shot at her. Even then, I think it would take a mistake ridden program for Med to lose. If they all skate perfectly, Med has the best balance of tech and artistry followed closely by Kaetlyn Osmond.

SkaterX · May 25, 2017

It drives me crazy that edge calls are so rare these days. If you're not going to call out a wrong edge why even bother having these 2 separate jumps?

mrrice · May 25, 2017

SkaterX said:
It drives me crazy that edge calls are so rare these days. If you're not going to call out a wrong edge why even bother having these 2 separate jumps?

What really drives me crazy are the "Selective" panels. If a skater flutz's, they should be called every single time they do it. Not just when they get to a big event. I want skaters to know from the first event to the last, that not doing a jump correctly will result in a low tech score. If that doesn't happen, there is very little incentive to fix the problem at a young age. I was at Worlds in 2001 and Sarah Hughes had the worst flutz I had ever seen yet, she still won a bronze. There were several people who said that if Worlds had been in Europe, she would never have been on the podium.

samkrut@mail.ru · May 25, 2017

icybear said:
Hi guys, I'm no Evgenia hater in fact she's one of my favourite skaters. But I came across this video showing a compilation of all of Evgenia lutz and the video says her edge is becoming worse and worse. Do you think Evgenia will ever correct it? I know she has knows about it and says she will but her lutz last year was at least on a flat edge but this year it's verging to the inside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7nSZAqD6Qs

Sigh....is this really necessary? The trend of the passed season is: "I am not Medevedeva's hater...but"

Yes, we all know that her lutz is imperfect. But same is true with Osmond, Daleman, Higuchi, Mihara and many many others. And Medvedeva is the only one who flutzes only once in 2 programs. What is the sense to beat the dead horse over and over again?

Here is the link with clear pictures and jump-a-matrons of flutzes by Wakaba, Mai, and Gabi. Let's discuss them as well to be fair or what?

https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/figura_rechi/1261248.html

Tolstoj · May 25, 2017

icybear said:
Hi guys, I'm no Evgenia hater in fact she's one of my favourite skaters. But I came across this video showing a compilation of all of Evgenia lutz and the video says her edge is becoming worse and worse. Do you think Evgenia will ever correct it? I know she has knows about it and says she will but her lutz last year was at least on a flat edge but this year it's verging to the inside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7nSZAqD6Qs

"...I'm not a hater but i'm going to post a video from these haters on youtube"

Anyway.

I don't think her lutz is much worse than before, it is an "!" not an "e" but i would say at juniors when she had the 3ltz in the short program she was much more focused on getting the outside edge and if i remember correctly at JGPF her lutz was fine in fact.

Some user on youtube is pretending the others have beautiful lutzes with a clear outside edge when it's not true: as [email protected] has noted most of the top female skaters has this issue.

To be fair even in Men figure skating i can see still today skaters flutzing (Shoma Uno and sometimes Jason Brown) and judges aren't calling anything.

So let's recap:

- ISU isn't helping only Evgenia on that.

- Evgenia will fix this over time, but it's not easy.

tars · May 25, 2017

Let's leave Medvedeva out of it and wonder how is it possible, that these flutzes are not called? It's like letting world champion level soccer player to use his hands or boxer to use his legs.
I could understand it, if the sport was young and rules were shaping up, but 125yo figure skating?

What does it say about the sport? :confused2:

drivingmissdaisy · May 25, 2017

tars said:
What does it say about the sport? :confused2:

That there are more important things than whether a skater flutzes or not. A missed edge call does not affect my enjoyment of the sport at all, unless it impacts the outcome. As someone else noted, Evgenia does only one lutz per competition, so the benefit is minimal compared with skaters who get away with 2 or 3 flutzes.

Ares · May 25, 2017

For me it's status quo with lutz, neither getting better or worse with standard fluctuation of sort :biggrin:

. Still flutz/y 90% of time (never called on it) and receiving even +1.50 bonus on that jump ... :drama:

:noshake: But they're aware of this problem & possible risk so there's no lutz in short program and just one in LP so it's not among those things that bother me all that much overall.

[email protected] said:
Sigh....is this really necessary? The trend of the passed season is: "I am not Medevedeva's hater...but"

Yes, we all know that her lutz is imperfect. But same is true with Osmond, Daleman, Higuchi, Mihara and many many others. And Medvedeva is the only one who flutzes only once in 2 programs. What is the sense to beat the dead horse over and over again?

Here is the link with clear pictures and jump-a-matrons of flutzes by Wakaba, Mai, and Gabi. Let's discuss them as well to be fair or what?

https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/figura_rechi/1261248.html

Higuchi & flutzes :scratch2:

I never noticed myself, neither anyone pointed it out - this is the first time I see anyone mentioning & associating Higuchi with flutz issue. She has kind of original technique though, changing from inside to outside edge at the last moment just before picking with toe, the entry is very similar to her flip too.

Procrastinator · May 25, 2017

I also think the the judging panel is equipped to notice edge and underrotation issues regardless of whether the tech panel calls it, and I do think that judges will lower GOE if they notice the issue.

For instance, a lot of stink has arisen from the youtube haters about the lutz takeoff from Adelina in Sochi but, if you look at the protocols, half of the judges gave her -1, 0, or +1 GOE. Because of the great height, flow, and other positive features of that pass, it's clear to me that several of the judges had to have been aware of the unclear edge in order for them to give that GOE.

Again, the judging panel is equipped (and instructed to) base GOE on takeoff/landing quality, and are nowhere explicitly prohibited from penalizing a skater whom the technical panel did not, for whatever reason, call out.

icybear · May 25, 2017

[email protected] said:
Sigh....is this really necessary? The trend of the passed season is: "I am not Medevedeva's hater...but"

https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/figura_rechi/1261248.html

Yes, it is necessary in case "some people" go "why don't you talk other skaters" "you're just a hater".:think:

icybear · May 25, 2017

Tolstoj said:
"...I'm not a hater but i'm going to post a video from these haters on youtube"

***** *****! Is it not possible to have a discussion without accusing people. I never said a bad word about Evgenia in my post. It's unfortunate for you that you think talking about skater's errors as "hating"

karne · May 25, 2017

You could have talked about the trend of flutzes not being called in general, and about whether it's possible to fix a flutz, without singling out a skater. And then while the thread would have invariably devolved into chaos anyway, you would not have been accused of starting anything.

But by singling out a skater, and then posting a video obviously created by people who are not her fans and are over-analysing her and not anyone else, you open yourself up to that kind of thing.

Flutzes can be fixed, but it takes a lot of hard work; Jason went from horrid flutz to ! generally and "e" only on a bad day, so it can be done. I actually think her Lutz has improved in the last year or so; but video can be cut and edited to show whatever the editor wants people to see.

samkrut@mail.ru · May 25, 2017

Ares said:
For me it's status quo with lutz, neither getting better or worse with standard fluctuation of sort . Still flutz/y 90% of time (never called on it) and receiving even +1.50 bonus on that jump ... :noshake: But they're aware of this problem & possible risk so there's no lutz in short program and just one in LP so it's not among those things that bother me all that much overall.

Higuchi & flutzes I never noticed myself, neither anyone pointed it out - this is the first time I see anyone mentioning & associating Higuchi with flutz issue. She has kind of original technique though, changing from inside to outside edge at the last moment just before picking with toe, the entry is very similar to her flip too.

I cannot agree with you on 2 accounts. First, I noticed her lutz edge almost three years ago when she competed at JGP and withstood several heated discussions with those who kept claiming that her lutz technique is perfect. Finally they admitted the edge was not there but created a theory that it does not matter when the weight is already not on the left foot. I never heard about that - according to the books, the edge is measured at the moment of the take-off without referring to if there is weight on the foot or not but I gave up. You can watch the photo at the attached link and decide for yourself - I think it is very clear. And I am not the author of that long post - someone else noticed it as well. Second, it's quite the opposite to what you said: Wakaba has the deep outside edge all the way through but quickly changes it to flat just before the take-off. In fact Medvedeva is trying to play the very same game. Wakaba is not called - Zhenya is not called. I think it's fair.

samkrut@mail.ru · May 25, 2017

icybear said:
Yes, it is necessary in case "some people" go "why don't you talk other skaters" "you're just a hater".:think:

Cause and effect, the third law of Newton - don't you think about that?

icybear · May 25, 2017

[email protected] said:
Cause and effect, the third law of Newton - don't you think about that?

So you like going round accusing people before they've said anything.

samkrut@mail.ru · May 25, 2017

icybear said:
So you like going round accusing people before they've said anything.

I try to give people a benefit of a doubt so I shall try the last time. I did not accuse you - I said that it is vey sad that we come back to the topic which has been discussed profoundly here in numerous threads about Medvedeva and her flutz. And because of that it is very hard to believe that the only thing that drove your decision to provide the link you provided and name the thread the way you named it was to have an impartial and objective analysis. But as I said I give you the benefit of a doubt and just urge to stop it here. Why? Because her flutz is not worse than flutzes of many other top skaters: you can add Ashley to the list I provided earlier, and Mao, and Yulia, and many others. And she is better than other flutzes because she is doing it only once. Hence, even if one can name her a cheater the effect of this cheating is minimal and has very little influence on the enormous safety margin she has built over the others during the last 2 seasons. That's all I am going to say here.

Sam L · May 25, 2017

I was watching a Trixi Schuba program and say what you want but her edges were perfect and clean. There
was no mistaking Lutzes and Flips. Is this from the compulsory figures training?

artsciboy · May 25, 2017

Its the inconsistent callers that's driving me crazy. I'm fine with Evgenia getting the "!" calls rather than the "e" - however, I have no clue why Ashley all of a sudden went from two solid seasons of getting "!" calls to getting "e" calls this season; Ashley's lutz edge did not regress, so to give her an "e" for what was one of her otherwise better jumps this past season is maddening when Evgenia continued to get the benefit of the doubt (along with others).

Evgenia Medvedeva: 2016-17 season

icybear

breadstal

mrrice

SkaterX

mrrice

[email protected]

Medalist

Tolstoj

tars

drivingmissdaisy

Ares

Procrastinator

icybear

icybear

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

[email protected]

Medalist

[email protected]

Medalist

icybear

[email protected]

Medalist

Sam L

artsciboy

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