Repeating Programs - Pros and Cons | Page 30 | Golden Skate

Repeating Programs - Pros and Cons

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
Sadly I just didn't feel it with Ashley's repeat yesterday.

Well, I did. Ashley proved exactly why she was right to reprise Moulin Rouge. She created emotion, she told a story, used the music, and skated with the power of her convictions. She didn't skate it perfectly yet, but it's early in the season. Refinements and re-adjusting to the requirements of the music and the program itself will come.

Fortunately, the judges are supposed to judge what a skater does on the day, to the music that plays in that moment. If you re-watch the videos, you may notice that Ashley got a wonderful response from the audience. Some of them were standing at the end of the performance. Since it wasn't technically perfect, the audience must have felt the emotions Ashley conveyed and liked how she expressed them.

Remember when she desired to skate to Carmen.. she’d make a great one...

LOL. I can hear the screams already.... why would a talented skater go with a worn-out warhorse ... and so on and on and on. I remember just a few months ago when people were mad about her choice of LaLaLand. Ashley is one of the most highly criticized skaters; her detractors are legion. You'd think she didn't keep bringing home medals for the U.S.A.
 

MaiKatze

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Well, I did. Ashley proved exactly why she was right to reprise Moulin Rouge. She created emotion, she told a story, used the music, and skated with the power of her convictions. She didn't skate it perfectly yet, but it's early in the season. Refinements and re-adjusting to the requirements of the music and the program itself will come.

Fortunately, the judges are supposed to judge what a skater does on the day, to the music that plays in that moment. If you re-watch the videos, you may notice that Ashley got a wonderful response from the audience. Some of them were standing at the end of the performance. Since it wasn't technically perfect, the audience must have felt the emotions Ashley conveyed and liked how she expressed them.



LOL. I can hear the screams already.... why would a talented skater go with a worn-out warhorse ... and so on and on and on. I remember just a few months ago when people were mad about her choice of LaLaLand. Ashley is one of the most highly criticized skaters; her detractors are legion. You'd think she didn't keep bringing home medals for the U.S.A.

Ashley is my favourite american Lady and I want to see her at the Olympic Games. I just wasn't feeling it yesterday. Of course, she got an amazing response from the audience because she is really good at selling Moulin Rouge, whether it is perfect or not. Still not a fan of the repeat. *sigh*
 

kiches

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Sadly I just didn't feel it with Ashley's repeat yesterday. Same as with Yuzuru's repeat. Kaetlyn manages to keep her repeat interesting for some reason, but that's probably because she's constantly delivering with that SP. As soon as the skater doesn't deliver it's getting really hard to get into it, because we as an audience KNOW how it looks when it is ON, when it works, when it's perfect. So even if a skater has a tiny mistake or something, for me personally that feels worse, because I've seen the programs skated to perfection before. *sigh*

Actually I was surprised that Kaetlyn didn’t seem to make any tweaks to her SP at all, when I saw it again at Autumn Classic it was identical to Helsinki and I thought the performance of it was nearly the same (in other words, both were superb). At first I thought it was due to time and perhaps the decision to bring back the SP came too close to Autumn Classic so they left things as-is, but there should’ve been time between Autumn Classic and Skate Canada to spruce it up. While it’s a great program I question how much more she could score with it without making changes to the choreography or her jump layout. I haven’t had a chance to watch Ashley’s Moulin Rouge in Canada so a I can’t comment on it, but it wasn’t a program I really liked to begin with. Yuzuru’s repeat have changes in them from choreography to the jumps and spins, while his non-clean performances can’t measure up to his past clean performances, I expect when he does skate things clean it can go far beyond what the old version of the programs did. If these skaters were repeating their programs with the same layout and choreography and not skating them clean, then I would be disappointed.
 

rabbit1234

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
If ISU is thinking about the popularity of figure skating, the Repeating Programs should prepare rules to deduct.
Otherwise, we will have to look at Katarina Witt's Carmen composed of 3S, 3T every year.
If you do not have a rule, the competitor who received the evaluation will only have to perform the same program every year.
Competitor should be scored that it can handle various music.
 

macy

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Well, I did. Ashley proved exactly why she was right to reprise Moulin Rouge. She created emotion, she told a story, used the music, and skated with the power of her convictions. She didn't skate it perfectly yet, but it's early in the season. Refinements and re-adjusting to the requirements of the music and the program itself will come.

Fortunately, the judges are supposed to judge what a skater does on the day, to the music that plays in that moment. If you re-watch the videos, you may notice that Ashley got a wonderful response from the audience. Some of them were standing at the end of the performance. Since it wasn't technically perfect, the audience must have felt the emotions Ashley conveyed and liked how she expressed them.

LOL. I can hear the screams already.... why would a talented skater go with a worn-out warhorse ... and so on and on and on. I remember just a few months ago when people were mad about her choice of LaLaLand. Ashley is one of the most highly criticized skaters; her detractors are legion. You'd think she didn't keep bringing home medals for the U.S.A.

the part when the music builds at the end of the program is EVERYTHING. her charlotte spiral sends chills up my spine every single time :love: she could fall on every jump and that last section would still kill me.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
Ashley is my favourite american Lady and I want to see her at the Olympic Games. I just wasn't feeling it yesterday. Of course, she got an amazing response from the audience because she is really good at selling Moulin Rouge, whether it is perfect or not. Still not a fan of the repeat. *sigh*

Well, we can't help how we feel. I wasn't trying to change your opinion. Just pointing out that many people in the audience must have felt the way I did ... felt the magic, the passion, and especially the conviction in Ashley's skating.

OTOH, I don't feel the magic of Kaetlyn Osmond's SP as I did before. But I'm open to this changing as the season goes on. As for Yuzuru's repeats, I don't feel the magic yet but I fully expect to later. The only thing I wish he would change back is his original spread eagles in and out of the 3A in the Chopin, which I still think is sublime.
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
the part when the music builds at the end of the program is EVERYTHING. her charlotte spiral sends chills up my spine every single time :love: she could fall on every jump and that last section would still kill me.

Thrills and chills. That's what it gives me, too. The way the emotion builds over that final part is fabulous.:luv17:
 

Figure 8's

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
I think it gives a Skater an unfair advantage to keep repeating programs. They don't have to learn anything new and can keep practicing the same old thing to perfection. Nor is it very creative. I think they should not be allowed to keep repeating programs, like how many times has Ashely Wagner used her long program? Or at least they should be dinged for it, points deducted every time they use an old program.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
If ISU is thinking about the popularity of figure skating, the Repeating Programs should prepare rules to deduct.
Otherwise, we will have to look at Katarina Witt's Carmen composed of 3S, 3T every year.
If you do not have a rule, the competitor who received the evaluation will only have to perform the same program every year.
The competitor should be scored that it can handle various music.

In a way, high-quality judges should able to judge these themselves without these explicit stated in the rule. Things like creativity, originality, risk-taking, new artistic challenges are unquantifiable, abstracted but critical components in judging artistry. There are those who continue to take advantage of same or similar music edits that suited to their skating style instead of developing different styles to interpret and expresses different music undertaking. These are very different efforts and standards of excellence, and should be acknowledged more in the judge's marks, certainly more than mere 0.25 points whatever that means.
 

rabbit1234

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
I think it gives a Skater an unfair advantage to keep repeating programs. They don't have to learn anything new and can keep practicing the same old thing to perfection. Nor is it very creative. I think they should not be allowed to keep repeating programs, like how many times has Ashely Wagner used her long program? Or at least they should be dinged for it, points deducted every time they use an old program.


I fully agree.
For Repeating Programs, if there are no deductive rules, many competitors will only receive that advantage.
That's why, in this season many competitors are using Repeating Programs.
I think that is not a fair competition.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
For me, the biggest danger is if your repeat program doesn't live up to what you performed previously. Sure, you can add more complex transitions and choreography, but if the delivery of the technical elements is subpar then the overall impression is worse because we have seen the program performed better in the past.
 

anyanka

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Sometimes, re-using a program is like repeating a Halloween costume: no matter how well-executed it is, we can't help but we're a little less thrilled because we've seen it before.

Happy Halloween, Golden Skaters!!!
 

Tutto

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I couldn't make my mind up to now but after watching two GPs I am now convinced that the 're-users' have done themselves no favours . If I were a judge I would take a point or two off PCS. I found myself half yawning through old programs, even the best skated of all - Kaetlyn's SP at SC - as great as it was on this occasion the trouble is I know it so well it falls flat which is a pity...
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
It's Olympics, no time for experiments or unknowns. Whatever makes you win goes. It's sports, just like ski jumping or swimming, not any "artiste" statements.
 

Bcash

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Realistically, the only disadvantage a re-used program will have is the not quite quantifiable loss of "impression" marks. But that may be balanced out by well-executed content, as opposed to potential mistakes due to the energy split by attention to new choreography and music. But all this is hypothetical. We won't know how really things would've been different had a skater made a different decision.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
I distinctly remember Dick Button, during a competition broadcast, saying repetition didn't go over well with the judges. He offered no explanation beyond that. But that was long ago and maybe things have changed.....and maybe they haven't. lol Why doesn't someone ask some judges how they view the situation. My feeling is that you have a somewhat unfair advantage in that the skater has had a much longer time to master the program and work out the kinks.
 
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