Blade grinds

Coebalt · Jun 25, 2017

So, I went out on my skates for the second time with my new skates on Friday and I noticed a few things. The first time I don't know if I was just distracted or something but I couldn't really hold my edges well. It probably had something to do with my skates being new and stiff, but also probably weight balancing and whatnot. Oh wait, maybe it was fear? Because I knew it was going to be hard and I didn't want to fall.

Now, on my second time I was paying a lot more attention. My weight distribution is probably still not always on the balls of my feet, which may be what throws me off sometime, but what I really noticed that on my left foot, shifting to my outside edge was hard than on my right.

Now, when I shift onto my left outside edge, it feels like I'm maybe leaning too much into it? Like, when I say it's "harder", what I mean is it's so ridiculously easy that it's hard to hold my inside edge with it accidentally shifting to it. So when I actually want to shift to it, it feels like I'm always about to fall off of it.

Here's a picture of my blades side by side, left to right:

To me it seems that the inside edge was ground lower than the outside edge. I understand that the edges are ground like this for a reason, but my right state's blade is the opposite. It's outside edge is the one that's ground higher, making the shift to it feel like an actual shift.

So I guess my question is, does this grind look standard? Or did my pro fun up? Mistakes happen, I just wanna know if I need them redone.

karne · Jun 25, 2017

Coebalt said:
Here's a picture of my blades side by side, left to right:

.

Bluntly? This picture is absolutely useless. Not only are the blades on angles in this picture, but there is no clear view of the edges at all.

Coebalt · Jun 25, 2017

karne said:
Bluntly? This picture is absolutely useless. Not only are the blades on angles in this picture, but there is no clear view of the edges at all.

Really? I thought the light was illustrating the grind pretty well o.o I suppose I could try taking a better picture.

Coebalt · Jun 25, 2017

Here's a couple of close ups:

Left

Right

Ic3Rabbit · Jun 25, 2017

karne · Jun 25, 2017

Coebalt said:
Here's a couple of close ups:

Left

Right

Nope, still useless.

You need to be looking down the length of the blade, from the toepick to the heel.

Kypma · Jun 25, 2017

Coebalt, I think I know what you mean, vs. what karne and Ic3Rabbit are looking for.

Are you talking about the part of the blade where the sharpened part ends, right before the toe picks, that has a "u" shape? If yes, that's not a worry - while it can be an indicator that your edges are uneven, I've seen that part both symmetrical and not on my blades, and had no noticeable effect on my ability to hold edges. However, you'll want to check that your edges are level vs. the ice, so you need a full view down the blade, toe picks to heel, to ensure that your blade is mounted straight (not bowed), and you need to use a level to ensure that the two edges are at the same height, again vs. the ice. Hope that clears things up, apologies if I misunderstood.

Coebalt · Jun 25, 2017

Maybe it'd be useful if you could describe what you're looking for? Or give me an example to replicate? I keep trying different angles but can't seem to find one that seems to show anything.

Coebalt · Jun 25, 2017

Kypma said:
Coebalt, I think I know what you mean, vs. what karne and Ic3Rabbit are looking for.

Are you talking about the part of the blade where the sharpened part ends, right before the toe picks, that has a "u" shape? If yes, that's not a worry - while it can be an indicator that your edges are uneven, I've seen that part both symmetrical and not on my blades, and had no noticeable effect on my ability to hold edges. However, you'll want to check that your edges are level vs. the ice, so you need a full view down the blade, toe picks to heel, to ensure that your blade is mounted straight (not bowed), and you need to use a level to ensure that the two edges are at the same height, again vs. the ice. Hope that clears things up, apologies if I misunderstood.

That's what I figured. But doesn't the blade have a curve? On my camera I can't get a clear picture of the edges all from pick to heel. Or at least, what I would consider a clear picture. And I don't want to clog the post with a bunch of failed attempts, or waste the members' time.

Ic3Rabbit · Jun 25, 2017

Coebalt said:
That's what I figured. But doesn't the blade have a curve? On my camera I can't get a clear picture of the edges all from pick to heel. Or at least, what I would consider a clear picture. And I don't want to clog the post with a bunch of failed attempts, or waste the members' time.

Yes there's a curve it's called the rocker.

Coebalt · Jun 25, 2017

Ic3Rabbit said:
Yes there's a curve it's called the rocker.

I am aware! My issue was that after I was told to get a picture of the edges from pick to heel I couldn't get one that contained the entire blade, due to the curve, and I wasn't sure if less than all was acceptable.

sandraskates · Jun 25, 2017

Coebalt, I don't know that any of us could really armchair quarterback a solution from photos.

It could be that the placement of the blades need moving "a little this way or that way". I suggest checking with your coach, or your skate tech. They can see how you stand and walk in your skates, and if the blades look a little off to your stance.

Ic3Rabbit · Jun 25, 2017

Coebalt said:
I am aware! My issue was that after I was told to get a picture of the edges from pick to heel I couldn't get one that contained the entire blade, due to the curve, and I wasn't sure if less than all was acceptable.

sandraskates said:
Coebalt, I don't know that any of us could really armchair quarterback a solution from photos.

It could be that the placement of the blades need moving "a little this way or that way". I suggest checking with your coach, or your skate tech. They can see how you stand and walk in your skates, and if the blades look a little off to your stance.

^^^this was my first thought, it sounds more like the blade alignment is off for you personally (everyone is different) and without skating on them for a short time first you and your tech won't know what you need.

Coebalt · Jun 25, 2017

Oh!! I'm sorry! That's fine, I just wanted to know if I could get help here. If it's not possible, that's fine! And I suppose it is more likely that it's the blade placement. I don't know. Maybe once I can talk to the pro shop see if the can tell from walking like was said. Unfortunately, I don't have a coach yet ^^;

tstop4me · Jun 25, 2017

Unless your sharpener really butchered your blades, we won't be able to determine from a photo whether your edges are sufficiently level. That's because of the tight tolerances. According to the major manufacturers of skate sharpeners, if the edge height difference is 0.002 in or less, no effect on your skating; if the edge height difference is 0.003 in or more, there will be an effect on your skating. From a photo, you won't be able to tell whether the edge height difference is or is not within spec (unless the blades have been badly butchered). Furthermore, edge height differences can vary along the blade, so you need to check them at multiple locations.

Even using a small machinist's square to check is difficult (because of the small blade thickness). There are special squares designed specifically to check edge height differences. They use a long lever arm to convert small differences in height to more discernable differences in angle. They cost on the order of $50. The ultimate tool is the Hollow Depth Indicator; but it costs on the order of $250.

I've never heard of anyone intentionally grinding the edges with uneven heights. Uneven edges typically arise from the sharpener not centering the blade with respect to the grinding wheel properly ... i.e., uneven edges are due to sloppy sharpening (they can also be due to a blade that is not straight).

The problem you describe could be due to uneven edges, improper placement of the blade, or improper angular alignment of the blade.

SmallAminal · Jun 26, 2017

From the original picture, it looks like one blade is mounted much closer to the inside than the other. Not sure if that was intentional or what could be causing the issue. We've had to move the blades around on my skater's boots in the past so maybe get that checked out.

vlaurend · Jun 26, 2017

SmallAminal said:
From the original picture, it looks like one blade is mounted much closer to the inside than the other. Not sure if that was intentional or what could be causing the issue. We've had to move the blades around on my skater's boots in the past so maybe get that checked out.

My thoughts exactly. I just looked at the original picture and the left blade is mounted closer to the inside than the right blade. When the blade is mounted too close to the inside, it makes you fall onto an outside edge too easily.

ifshehadwings · Jun 29, 2017

Agreeing with several people here, your problem sounds more like blade alignment than a sharpening issue. And since your skates are new, that could definitely be the problem. Ask someone in the pro shop to check your blade alignment. You MUST do this on the ice, though. Unless the alignment is disastrously off, there's no way you could tell from just standing or walking. Honestly, a good skate tech should have done this when you got the skates, but you definitely want to check on it anyway.

tstop4me · Jun 29, 2017

ifshehadwings said:
Agreeing with several people here, your problem sounds more like blade alignment than a sharpening issue. And since your skates are new, that could definitely be the problem. Ask someone in the pro shop to check your blade alignment. You MUST do this on the ice, though. Unless the alignment is disastrously off, there's no way you could tell from just standing or walking. Honestly, a good skate tech should have done this when you got the skates, but you definitely want to check on it anyway.

Not everyone has access to a good skate tech working at a pro shop located at a rink. In my area, the skate techs at rinks pretty much suck at figure skates. So, the first mounting is typically based on the skater standing and walking on a carpet. Then the skater tries the skates at a rink and reports back to the skate tech any problems. The skate tech then adjusts the blade mount, and the process repeats. This can get fairly time consuming, especially if the skate tech is far away. Your only other option is to learn how to mount/remount blades yourself.

ifshehadwings · Jun 29, 2017

tstop4me said:
Not everyone has access to a good skate tech working at a pro shop located at a rink. In my area, the skate techs at rinks pretty much suck at figure skates. So, the first mounting is typically based on the skater standing and walking on a carpet. Then the skater tries the skates at a rink and reports back to the skate tech any problems. The skate tech then adjusts the blade mount, and the process repeats. This can get fairly time consuming, especially if the skate tech is far away. Your only other option is to learn how to mount/remount blades yourself.

Oh, believe me, I know. The closest skate tech/fitter I trust is 2+ hours from me. It took me four trips to get my last pair of skates fitted, ordered, aligned, and mounted. And I may still need to have some adjustments made. It's a real pain. I totally understand if someone can't spare the time or expense to go that far, but I still think it helps to know what you should be looking for.

Blade grinds

Coebalt

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

Coebalt

Coebalt

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

Kypma

Coebalt

Coebalt

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Coebalt

sandraskates

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Coebalt

tstop4me

SmallAminal

vlaurend

ifshehadwings

tstop4me

ifshehadwings

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