The challenges of music editing/cutting | Page 3 | Golden Skate

The challenges of music editing/cutting

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
Yup... in Canada.. .Socan.... alex is correct here... I don't know as much when it comes to sports but anywhere where music is played in Canada, the venue has to purchase a license.... even the dentist office ;)

I work in the world of classical music... so we do pay fees for certain type of events when we are producers... but not when I am hired to perform by someone else...

so I would think that it's the same for skaters as when I am a performer : the venue/producers will have to pay the license fees... and the skaters just don't have to worry about it.

Also, if they keep sticking to warhorses, a lot of that music is public domaine anyways... and that's why sometimes, you will find online, muted skating performances vs non-muted ones...
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
The Copyright rules have become much more strict since my touring days. Now, you can't even upload certain videos on YouTube if they have certain music playing in the background. When Joshua's "Give me Love" program was first put up on YouTube, the soundtrack was muted. If you look for it today, it's there with the original music. My friend does videos from amusement parks and he's told me that if there's copy written music playing the background, his videos could be blocked, even if the music is not the purpose of the video.
 

cl2

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
YT is indeed a problem, but it depends who the copyright owner is and if the uploader is trying to monetize the video. At electronic dance music, I only know of two labels that ask for the removal of their original content. The others will tolerate these uploads, but demand that the author of said videos, disables monetization. The result is free promotion and thousands of DJ mixes that in theory are illegal, but will be tolerated.



As an artist, you will most likely be in some type of contract with a company that manages your royalty claims. In Germany that is the GEMA, in the US ASCAP at Canada SOCAN. This means that they will give you money, whenever someone plays your music and you give them a cut for their service. Because of this, you can not deny someone else the right to play your music, if they hold their part of the bargain which is paying the company, that later pays you.

It is important to say though, that you need to list your work with the company. They can only "protect" what they know exists.



The "permission" is your contract as a location, TV channel, ice rink owner ... with the company that handles the artist rights. As a skater / composer of music, it only becomes an issue if you would "alter" the music of another artist in a very certain way, so that the original piece of work might be ruined, exposed etc. At this point you could deny them the right to use your music.

In Germany we had the case in 99 when a video of Loona, had to be redone, as the original author of the melody (Grönemayer) , felt it was inappropriate to have half naked ladies dance there, so he demanded a different style if they wanted to keep the permission to use said original melody.

It is important to note though, that copyrights can expire over time / be transferred to someone new. Let´s take the example of Beethoven for a second.

He is obviously not able to be a member of a rights managing company, as he has died almost 200 years ago and 70 years is the threshold for copyright protection of artists. Therefore, you can play his music if you arrange it by yourself. The notes are freely available on the internet so get on your PC and create your own version of the moonlight sonata. ;) If you do this, then you become the owner of your creation and if now someone plays your "rework", then he needs your permission.

I wouldn´t be surprised if this is actually pretty common in FS with the use of classical music. The skaters ask someone who can arrange music and e voila, they have a unique piece of music for their programs.

Yup... in Canada.. .Socan.... alex is correct here... I don't know as much when it comes to sports but anywhere where music is played in Canada, the venue has to purchase a license.... even the dentist office ;)

I work in the world of classical music... so we do pay fees for certain type of events when we are producers... but not when I am hired to perform by someone else...

so I would think that it's the same for skaters as when I am a performer : the venue/producers will have to pay the license fees... and the skaters just don't have to worry about it.

Also, if they keep sticking to warhorses, a lot of that music is public domaine anyways... and that's why sometimes, you will find online, muted skating performances vs non-muted ones...

Is it just about whether the music itself is copyrighted? Or can the performer of music in the public domain claim copyright for his/her performance? For example, if you use Pianist X's performance of a Beethoven Sonata, recorded and produced by Recording Company Y, would copyright and licensing fees still apply towards Pianist X and Recording Company Y?

One time, I posted on YouTube a recording of my own recital of a Schubert sonata, and was hit with a copyright claim... lol.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
Is it just about whether the music itself is copyrighted? Or can the performer of music in the public domain claim copyright for his/her performance? For example, if you use Pianist X's performance of a Beethoven Sonata, recorded and produced by Recording Company Y, would copyright and licensing fees still apply towards Pianist X and Recording Company Y?

One time, I posted on YouTube a recording of my own recital of a Schubert sonata, and was hit with a copyright claim... lol.

LOL that's hilarious... Schubert is public domain and that was your recital so if I understand properly, a recital part of your own education program. In other words, you were not paid for it, it was a free recital etc...

BTW i have stuff on youtube that isn't public domain, from living composers which hasn't been muted or deleted. So youtube is a mess when it comes to this.. because technically i have no rights to publish these but i am sure the composers don't mind since it gives them exposure.

I may be wrong but I don't believe that the interpretation of a piece by a performer is copyrighted unless and i am not even sure about that, unless the performer has done a commercial recording and is part of the production team... For instance, I am playing on some cds but just as a hired musician. I don't have any rights nor royalties.

Copyright law is tricky and varies country per country...
 

cl2

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
LOL that's hilarious... Schubert is public domain and that was your recital so if I understand properly, a recital part of your own education program. In other words, you were not paid for it, it was a free recital etc...

Yeah, I was in school then, and we could either give a public recital, or a "private" closed-door exam to the professors. Well, I amused myself for a moment wondering which famous pianist did they think I posted ;)
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
I'm enjoying all the information in this thread; very interesting.

Shae-Lynne Bourne said in the Rockerskating video on Ashley's FS process that her husband edits the programs she choreographs, and she really enjoys that because it makes it a collaborative process. She also worked with Hugo for that program.

I have a purely personal challenge when it comes to FS programs: when an edit of a previous skater's music is very similar, but not identical. The best example of this is Michelle Kwan's 1998 East of Eden program, which I think was the perfect music, perfectly cut, perfectly choreographed and perfectly performed program. Any time I see a program that reflects the movements and music, so much that it seems almost like an homage (Tatsuki Machida's), I love it. But when it's not the same, I find myself annoyed and it takes me a full minute to get into appreciating the program fully. Example: Mariah Bell's LP last year. I love Mariah! but I had trouble not moaning aloud: Why, Rohene, why? :laugh:
 

Henni147

Final Flight
Joined
May 1, 2017
I've tried some music cuts for figure skating programmes myself. I think the biggest challenges are fitting transitions between the cuts and a consistent rhythm throughout the programme (of course it needs "skatable" speed and accents as well. Not every type of music can be simply used.

The first soundtrack is a cut of an instrumental score called "Elea" from Worakls. I really like the bowed instruments, changing styles and unexpected transitions. Not easy to skate for sure but quite epic if it works. I've planned it as a short programme music, but it might work as a free skate, too (the original score is over 6 minutes long).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj_fIlHhjFs

The second one is a medley from James Horner's Avatar soundtrack. It consists of three different scores and is designed as a free skate programme. The last score "I see you" is also available as a vocal version from Leona Lewis but that would be too much of a drama I think :laugh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEAesJlJZx4

How do you think about it?
 

singerskates

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
I've tried some music cuts for figure skating programmes myself. I think the biggest challenges are fitting transitions between the cuts and a consistent rhythm throughout the programme (of course it needs "skatable" speed and accents as well. Not every type of music can be simply used.

The first soundtrack is a cut of an instrumental score called "Elea" from Worakls. I really like the bowed instruments, changing styles and unexpected transitions. Not easy to skate for sure but quite epic if it works. I've planned it as a short programme music, but it might work as a free skate, too (the original score is over 6 minutes long).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj_fIlHhjFs

The second one is a medley from James Horner's Avatar soundtrack. It consists of three different scores and is designed as a free skate programme. The last score "I see you" is also available as a vocal version from Leona Lewis but that would be too much of a drama I think [emoji23]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEAesJlJZx4

How do you think about it?
If I were to pick music from Avatar, I would pick better known pieces, and one of them would tie in with the vocal pop tune played either during the film credits or from the movie trailer. I have a music editing business called Singerskates Music.
 

Tallorder

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Given the technology available today, versus just a skating generation ago, there's hardly an excuse for poorly executed music cuts.
 

singerskates

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Given the technology available today, versus just a skating generation ago, there's hardly an excuse for poorly executed music cuts.
Not everybody has a musical ear to hear what is a great, good, ok or bad cut. Being a skater and a musician/songwriter makes editing music more artistic. One can actually rework the sections into a new artist creation and make it blend so well that people actually would think it was written that way.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
Not everybody has a muusical ear to hear what is a great, good, ok or bad cut. Being a skater and a musician/songwriter makes editing music more artistic. One can actually rework the sections into a new artist creation and make it blend so well that people actually would think it was written that way.

Exactly and I know at least one music editor in particular that's fabulous at this.
 

singerskates

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
No sorry. :shrug:
You've not heard my music edited skating pieces. From where are you? I've done a piece for Jennifer Robinson, music written and performed by Plumb called "(Safe) In My Arms" to which she skated at the Barrie Summer Show several years ago just after she gave birth to her first child; the piece was Baby gift. An adult skater named Janet Wood won 2 years in a row with "Mission Impossible" in Bronze and Silver Artistic FS (Interpretive) at the ISU Adult Invitational in Oberstdorf, Germany, which Gary Beacom was the one who put us in contact with each other. And in the last few weeks I've had a skater named Katherine Karon of Skate Ontario compete her Pre-Novice Short program to "Butterfly Waltz" which I cut in such a way that you'd think that it was written that way. She'll be heading to sections this fall.
 

Ender

Match Penalty
Joined
May 17, 2017
Not everybody has a muusical ear to hear what is a great, good, ok or bad cut. Being a skater and a musician/songwriter makes editing music more artistic. One can actually rework the sections into a new artist creation and make it blend so well that people actually would think it was written that way.
Some people also prefer some weird music cuts and who knows why. We can't judge their taste.
 
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