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Thread: 2017 CS Lombardia Trophy Ladies SP

  1. #421
    Spectator beatrixkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Agreed. She has the potential to be something really special, but everyone - in their desperation to have SOMEONE challenge Medvedeva - wants it to be her. Right now.


    I get backing a skater, and feeding into hype, but if a skater falls can we at least acknowledge when in happens... I mean, thinking that a 71 point short program with a fall is an acceptable for any skater -- and some are even saying she was underscored.

    And it's not like from last season to this one she's artistically transformed herself from night to day (e.g. Kwan in her 1996 season vs 1995), and we all agree that she was behind on the music. But then to say she didn't get high enough?! Come on now. Even Medvedeva skating in her senior debut at CS Ondrej Nepela (63.68 points) and later on at 2015 Skate America (70.92 - which, was a crazy score/PCS leap) -- skating clean -- didn't score as high as Alina (71.29) did with a fall. Like, what, people are expecting Zagitova to get 75 points in her senior debut?!

    I will say that this certainly makes her case for being on the Olympic team much stronger. If she's getting a personal best with a fall, then already the judges are in her corner. I mean, she got 9.00's. With a fall (in case I didn't mention it).

    I also think people are panicking about one 2A mistake and saying she should scrap it. If she landed it perfectly people wouldn't say anything. If she continues to mess up on it, then sure, take it out. But she can definitely land that well. I honestly think it was a lack of focus (she might have thought she was home free) or lack of attack (she was a bit tentative throughout the program) that led to that error. It's fine -- it's nerves. It's her senior debut. And she doesn't have to be perfect.

    I'm hoping she skates better in the FS today. But is scored appropriately.
    Agreed.

    But I'm expecting even more overscore in the LP. That's just what figure skating has come to. Overscore, overscore, PCS inflation, ignoring wrong technique, overscore, world records for mediocre programs, overscore, overscore.
    Unfortunately that's the reality.
    So I'm just trying to enjoy the performances and ignore the numbers, otherwise I'll go mad. LOL

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by beatrixkid View Post
    Agreed.

    But I'm expecting even more overscore in the LP. That's just what figure skating has come to. Overscore, overscore, PCS inflation, ignoring wrong technique, overscore, world records for mediocre programs, overscore, overscore.
    Unfortunately that's the reality.
    So I'm just trying to enjoy the performances and ignore the numbers, otherwise I'll go mad. LOL
    That's usually a good call. Maybe we should focus more about the placement than the records and whatnot.

    And first and foremost, I enjoy programs as a whole... things like URs and flutzes, doing 5 triples instead of 7, etc. don't ruin it for me. A good skate is a good skate.

  3. #423
    Medalist atsumiri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    And first and foremost, I enjoy programs as a whole... things like URs and flutzes, doing 5 triples instead of 7, etc. don't ruin it for me. A good skate is a good skate.
    it's a sport.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    That's usually a good call. Maybe we should focus more about the placement than the records and whatnot.

    And first and foremost, I enjoy programs as a whole... things like URs and flutzes, doing 5 triples instead of 7, etc. don't ruin it for me. A good skate is a good skate.
    Yes, it's not like a flutz will spoil the joy of a whole performance. But it's something that needs attention from the judging panel and it needs to be scored correctly otherwise it's not fair.

    The judging has proved to be unfair and corrupted a lot of times so... I'm just tired...But I am very excited to see the new talents and the new programs!

  5. #425
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    But I also want to add that Alina can win this competiton (and many other competitions) easily on TES.
    Last edited by psusanne; 09-15-2017 at 12:21 PM. Reason: Wrong thread

  6. #426
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    man, I am LATE like last season late for this, but here my impressions on top 3 after SP (had no chance unfortunately to wath more...)

    As for Alina, I was a bit confused and 'disoriented' after watching her SP - I totally see that the girl has skills, jumping abilities, difficulty in elements, but for me problematic issue is HOW those qualities are presented by choreography and packaging. I do get that her team wants to show all her assests, ability to perform difficult entries to jumps etc., but in all of that chaos I cannot see Alina herself despite my will and expectation. The movement thorough the whole program is so busy, so 'over-embelished', so frantic, it just does not allow me to take a breath and let myself see a skater, but those particular skills on continous display. Saying that, I totally see from where her team is going - the backloading, showing Alina's jumping abilities, showing that she's capable of pulling all the difficulty off and it makes its impression on her first senior season. I respect the fact that if a skater is able to backload as Alina can, then do it for your benefit, BUT - please make it more fluid, balanced and skater-focused as for sole presence, expression, connection to the music/audience, not only to be there and and do a series of moves/elements. The concept/idea and muscal layer of the program are good I feel and suit Alina, but then such busy, frantic choreography kind of ruins my reception of it - I would love to see more holding a pose, a line, a musical moment for a little longer, because I feel that she is capable of that. And speaking of such heavy-loaded choreography vs Alina's actual performance - I have a respect for her to remember all those changes and in all honesty - I have no wonder that such busy choreography added to the nerves over senior international debut resulted in that fall on 2A, surrounded itself by such entry...The hurry and nervousness were visible for me - she was behind the music in places and seemed focused mainly on execution. I just wish the program was a little more 'stripped' of transitions and have more 'Alina moments': to allow her connect more with the character, the feel of the music and the audience. And one more thought about costuming vs music/theme used - again a bit confusion from my side: tutu like for balletic swan, but skating itself gave me a little resemblance of a swan. Yes - there were several 'swan poses', but they were planned here and there in choreography and the rest of Alina's program did not have a 'swan vibe' in it. For that point, I do wish her team would go a bit more avant-garde and gave her a black catsuit with some moderate sparkle and feathers - it would still reference a swan in music and in theme of the program, but was less litteral and disconected from choreography, the way Alina performs it. In general I wish I saw more of Alina in that program, I really do.

    As for Wakaba - I personally adore this program for her, it really shows off her great musical sensibility (like last season) and an ability to be playful with music, the vibe, to translate all of this into her skating and interpretation. The piece used is very clever I think - it builds nicely to the energetic finale and so happy to see that choreography actually reflects on that, varying the movement along with tempo. As I am really not a jump person in terms o knowledge etc., I'm just happy to see Wakaba going steady, without some stepouts, falls - it gave me a nice feel of the 'whole' program, the picture of it without any major interruptions. I love the costuming - as it is a Gypsy dance, it is kind of busy in embelishment, but still Wakaba elegance-like, loved those arm details work along with her choreographical movements during step sequence! And speaking of those 'shimmies' already mentioned here - honestly, I don't mind them, all those movements, especially during step sequence, arm moves in-between for me reflected very nicely and seamlessly on music, it was never 'over-the-top' for me. And Wakaba's expression - her joy and exuberance was really infectious, it was like 'yeah, I'm enjoying myself, come all enjoy this one with me', not like 'PLEASE SEE ME ENJOYING IT!' - she really seemed happy and relaxed on ice, made eye contact with audience and flirted so damn nicely with the music. The whole performance just flowed from one pose to another element with joy. This is really a great vehicle for her.

    And Carolina - hands down my favourite performance out of top 3. Why? I already mentioned that I am not very jump person, GOE person, COP person in general and I apologize for my ignorance if this is received by some of you as such; I do realize that athletic element is there, that this is a sport of rules and elements to be executed, that there are scores and the best one wins, but I cannot help myself and want to find something that will move me somehow, not only impress by technical content executed and score given. And Carolina yesterday gave me that kind of moment. To take on such 'big' song, such emotional one and not let it overpower you, but the opposite - Carolina let the song, the music to empower her skating, ample her emotional message and make it so raw, real and physical, which is a big thing for me. She was the centerpiece of the whole performance - she showed those lyrics by her face, body, gestures and it was so sublime, yet powerful. I loved especially the transition after 1st spin - the choreography itself alone is masterful, but it gets just o aother level performed by Carolina, she totally live out that music. The costume, the quiet sensuality, maturity of her skating, the cleanless of her lines, fragility of emotional character embodied yet given out in so strong, vivid way just stunned me as a whole. I feel like she's a skater who fully understand her strenghts and fortes and is able to use them in so captivating way in every program now. I am crazy about this SP and cannot wait for its next showing

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNameFace View Post

    As for Alina, I was a bit confused and 'disoriented' after watching her SP - I totally see that the girl has skills, jumping abilities, difficulty in elements, but for me problematic issue is HOW those qualities are presented by choreography and packaging. I do get that her team wants to show all her assests, ability to perform difficult entries to jumps etc., but in all of that chaos I cannot see Alina herself despite my will and expectation. The movement thorough the whole program is so busy, so 'over-embelished', so frantic, it just does not allow me to take a breath and let myself see a skater, but those particular skills on continous display. Saying that, I totally see from where her team is going - the backloading, showing Alina's jumping abilities, showing that she's capable of pulling all the difficulty off and it makes its impression on her first senior season. I respect the fact that if a skater is able to backload as Alina can, then do it for your benefit, BUT - please make it more fluid, balanced and skater-focused as for sole presence, expression, connection to the music/audience, not only to be there and and do a series of moves/elements. The concept/idea and muscal layer of the program are good I feel and suit Alina, but then such busy, frantic choreography kind of ruins my reception of it - I would love to see more holding a pose, a line, a musical moment for a little longer, because I feel that she is capable of that. And speaking of such heavy-loaded choreography vs Alina's actual performance - I have a respect for her to remember all those changes and in all honesty - I have no wonder that such busy choreography added to the nerves over senior international debut resulted in that fall on 2A, surrounded itself by such entry...The hurry and nervousness were visible for me - she was behind the music in places and seemed focused mainly on execution. I just wish the program was a little more 'stripped' of transitions and have more 'Alina moments': to allow her connect more with the character, the feel of the music and the audience. And one more thought about costuming vs music/theme used - again a bit confusion from my side: tutu like for balletic swan, but skating itself gave me a little resemblance of a swan. Yes - there were several 'swan poses', but they were planned here and there in choreography and the rest of Alina's program did not have a 'swan vibe' in it. For that point, I do wish her team would go a bit more avant-garde and gave her a black catsuit with some moderate sparkle and feathers - it would still reference a swan in music and in theme of the program, but was less litteral and disconected from choreography, the way Alina performs it. In general I wish I saw more of Alina in that program, I really do.

    I totally agree with you.
    And I think the frantic movements with no time for breathing, no holding a beautiful line, the lack of musicality, the almost chaotic choreo is apparently a trademark for Eteri girls. And I mean no disrespect, they're obviously all very talented. But I don't know what's going on with their artistic side. They have a very different, specific style, with all the busy transitions, the tanos, rippons, the backloading. Personally, I'd rather see a more balanced layout, but I get they are doing it for points. But still, if it's not done well, it kills the artistry a bit. And I think that was the case here. She wasn't ready to perform that program. I guess she will, soon enough.

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