Arena was vandalised by fans after Men's Free Skate

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

With the exception of attacking someone's sexuality, the rest is not particularly extreme at all.
Just people disagreeing.
It is not defacing symbolic places, holding up signs while Nathan's national anthem is playing, or making vile death threats.

It is just disagreement and people trying to prove their opinion is the right one.

Some people genuinely feel Yuzu was lucky be second after the SP and I'm inclined to agree with that, it could have been Much worse. That's not being nasty, trolling or attacking anyone, but an opinion.

Did the post I responded to get deleted...confused

Disagreement manifests itself in many ways. The reality is there are fans who will ALWAYS disagree with GOE scores or PCS scores when in their own minds their favourite is devoid of criticism. So when a judge gives a score that is less than what they have pre-envisioned they lash out in ways that could be as benign as an eye roll or as extreme as vandalism.

The fandom as a whole isn't responsible for the actions of some, but perhaps some of the more... vociferous people should consider being a little more introspective as to how their grossly negative reactions can snowball into reactions like this. The pervasive anger on social media towards individuals who are expressing their opinion or trying to do their jobs is appalling. And then things like this happen when individuals are emboldened by a collective groundswell of negativity. Disagreement should lead to discussion not destruction.

 

[el henry]

Let's not categorize/stereotype fans just because of the actions of two people. No need to turn this into a flame thread. The individuals were caught and we can only hope that actions will be taken to prevent, preserve, and protect in the future.

:thumbsup:

 

[Noxchild]

The idea that the people who vandalized the wall are understandably frustrated by the ISU scoring or have even just semi-sympathetic motivations is laughable. Of all the times to fight the unfair scoring battle, these so-called fans want to whine about the competition where Nathan skated lights out perfect and Yuzuru, despite his best efforts, made crucial errors in both programs that would have drastically changed his scores if he went clean. All this wuzrobbed nonsense would make you think they'd had the opposite performances.

If you have a bone to pick with the ISU judging system, file an official complaint, vent online, stop watching, whatever. But scribbling petty insults on a wall in the very iconic arena the athletes were skating in, or holding up those childish signs during the men's victory ceremony right where the medalists could see... pathetic.

 

[eaglehelang]

With the exception of attacking someone's sexuality, the rest is not particularly extreme at all.
Just people disagreeing.
It is not defacing symbolic places, holding up signs while Nathan's national anthem is playing, or making vile death threats.

It is just disagreement and people trying to prove their opinion is the right one.

Some people genuinely feel Yuzu was lucky be second after the SP and I'm inclined to agree with that, it could have been Much worse. That's not being nasty, trolling or attacking anyone, but an opinion.

Did the post I responded to get deleted...confused

1) I did mention to the person I was replying to that this kinda of personal attacks are pretty common, common on youtube. Not specifically on sexual orientation, just personal attacks in general, that was an example of the kind of tone normally used.

If I get a personal attack, that is how it would sound like. Over the years, such instances have increased with Nathan's increasing fan base.

Up to you whether want to believe or not, test it out yourself for few years.

2) On vandalism -> those who did it should be heavily fined.
Holding up protest signs - nothing I havent seen before, FS is rather mild in my opinion.
Death threats -> ok, nothing I havent seen or heard before. Didnt I already mention 2X there are people who have prayer circles wishing Yuzuru get injured?
And dunno what else they said or did till Yuzuru said he had suicidal thoughts, few months after winning 2018 OG.

I dont sound sympathetic? I've seen & faced worse things in real life, face to face. Not everyone are from 1st world countries.

On Solutions : ISU themselves need to improve consistency in the judging system. Not bury their heads in the sand & say - 'It's a subjective sport, cant help it, it is what it is.' While other sports, including gymnastics are going forward.

 

[AlinaRina]

The idea that the people who vandalized the wall are understandably frustrated by the ISU scoring or have even just semi-sympathetic motivations is laughable. Of all the times to fight the unfair scoring battle, these so-called fans want to whine about the competition where Nathan skated lights out perfect and Yuzuru, despite his best efforts, made crucial errors in both programs that would have drastically changed his scores if he went clean. All this wuzrobbed nonsense would make you think they'd had the opposite performances.

If you have a bone to pick with the ISU judging system, file an official complaint, vent online, stop watching, whatever. But scribbling petty insults on a wall in the very iconic arena the athletes were skating in, or holding up those childish signs during the men's victory ceremony right where the medalists could see... pathetic.

^^^ THIS. You don't vandalize property, hold petty signs up at a victory ceremony, harass and bully other skaters online, or call Interpol because of something as minor as a figure skating result you disagree with. This is toddler-levels of tantrum throwing.

 

[discode]

Whataboutism and I've seen worse things aren't really valid argument. These fans were horrific and disrespected Hanyu, the person they supposedly love, more than once this competition with their behavior. Not sure why anyone would bother to defend them.

And I'll believe people actually care about scoring as a whole and transparency in the sport when fans start getting this passionate about skaters like Satoko getting constantly robbed.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

That wasn't my intention. I suppose I should have used a different word, as it is a bit distressing to see my word choice quoted multiple times in such a manner. :shocked:

Sorry! It wasn't my intention to distress you. You did all caps it so it seemed you were particularly stressing that Chen was admitting (as if it is a irrefutable fact) he wasn't at Yuzu's level of PCS was him saying the scores were wrong. To me, it was a moment of humility -- saying he doesn't feel he's quite at the level even though the PCS was higher (which was arguably justified given the level of performance he had and the errors Hanyu made - and a judge could definitely be justified in putting Chen higher... even on things like transitions -- Hanyu's quad lutz had a regular landing whereas Chen's had a spread eagle, so they may have noticed things like that for the TR mark; Hanyu popping his final axel and stumbling on his final pose could have severely compromised his performance mark because they marred the impact of the program, whereas Chen punctuated his program with all those clean jumps and a strong level of performance -- yes, he had a mini-stumble in the Choreo footwork too, albeit covered up and not as obvious as Hanyu dropping to the ice in his final pose because he was gassed).

But it's interesting the reaction when Nathan is saying he's not at Yuzu's level of PCS (and Hanyu fans jump on that saying "at least he admits it"), but the moment Hanyu says “I have to learn about the balance btwn jumps and program - Nathan is able to do that.” or “[Chen] has everything - so much clean jumps, music sense is good. He can feel the tempo with music.” suddenly, some of these people who leapt on Chen's self-deprecating words are suddenly dismissing Hanyu's compliments about Nathan, because it doesn't align with their own perception of Chen (even if the words came right out of Hanyu's mouth).

I'm not sure your own opinion, but I'm sure other fans think: if Chen says something bad about himself it's an admission; if Chen says something good about himself it's pompous; if Hanyu says something good about Chen it's just being polite and isn't actually true; and I suppose if Hanyu ever says something bad about Chen it would be... telling it like it is?! :sarcasm:

 

[tafattsbarn]

The fact that some people here seem to think scoring discourse is not worthwhile just because it wouldn't change the podium is sad to hear. What about all of the skaters that never had a chance to make the podium but are constantly being scored unfairly because they're from a small federation or excel in one area (PCS or TES) but not the other but get scored as if they are bad in both? They might not podium but placing 14th or 10th might be the difference in whether they can get some funding or any kind of sponsorship, no matter how small, that would make training easier.

Even then, so what if it doesn't change the podium? It changes WR, PB, SB and all these things can have an impact on someone's career or place in history as a top skater. As we can see though, lately WR doesn't seem to mean anything as there is a new one every week even when skaters make mistakes ;-;

Scoring matters and should be as accurate and fair as it could be even when it doesn't change much, or anything. Otherwise, what is the point of calling it a sport?

(I wrote this really quickly so sorry if i come across as incoherent or am not communicating my message effectively).

Edit: I'm of course not condoning or counting vandalism as scoring discourse. The behaviour exhibited by these two people is disgusting and should be punished to the fullest extent.

 

[Noxchild]

It's not that scoring discourse is not worthwhile - obviously it matters that skaters are scored accurately and fairly, no matter their reputation or what fed they belong to. But these complaints weren't about the Little Guy whose future placements and funding might be affected by scoring 70 in an SP versus 65 (and therefore being able to make the free skate at Worlds or something like that), but an unfortunate and immature subset of fans throwing tantrums because their fave, a two-time Olympic champion and perennial world record holder, scored only a measly 97 in an SP where he missed his combo and got 1.5 lower PCS than the winner in a free skate where he missed a jumping pass and was visibly winded at the end of his program. Yuzuru, Nathan, and a lot of top favoured skaters have and will continue to benefit from generous GOEs and PCS bumps when they skate well (or not-so-well) compared to their competitors. It sucks, and the ISU should have moved to separate TES/PCS panels like yesterday. But it'd be nice if we could spread the concern for fair scoring a little farther than "our fave didn't win, therefore ISU automatically corrupt".

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

The fact that some people here seem to think scoring discourse is not worthwhile just because it wouldn't change the podium is sad to hear. What about all of the skaters that never had a chance to make the podium but are constantly being scored unfairly because they're from a small federation or excel in one area (PCS or TES) but not the other but get scored as if they are bad in both? They might not podium but placing 14th or 10th might be the difference in whether they can get some funding or any kind of sponsorship, no matter how small, that would make training easier.

Even then, so what if it doesn't change the podium? It changes WR, PB, SB and all these things can have an impact on someone's career or place in history as a top skater. As we can see though, lately WR doesn't seem to mean anything as there is a new one every week even when skaters make mistakes ;-;

Scoring matters and should be as accurate and fair as it could be even when it doesn't change much, or anything. Otherwise, what is the point of calling it a sport?

(I wrote this really quickly so sorry if i come across as incoherent or am not communicating my message effectively).

Edit: I'm of course not condoning or counting vandalism as scoring discourse. The behaviour exhibited by these two people is disgusting and should be punished to the fullest extent.

I would love to compare the number of times that such fans advocate for their fave deserving higher scores compared to the number of times these same fans advocate for the aforementioned skaters from smaller/less popular federations deserving higher scores.

Scoring issues are bad, but things like PCS and GOE are opinion. And some fans' opinions are steadfast no matter the execution or performance they see. If the judges gave a skater 98 PCS, skating fans would complain it wasn't 100. If the judges gave them anything less than +5s across the board for a clean jump they will cry underscoring.

Some can't seem to fathom the fact that Chen could (and did) score higher than Hanyu (or Aymoz at ACI)... the fact that the judges might actually be looking at the performances themselves instead of referring to a preconceived notion as to where people's PCS should stack up and their max GOE. They are flummoxed by the score gap, without even realizing how many points Hanyu left on the table with his botched combo in the SP, and the 4-2 instead of 4-3, and the UR stepout on the 3F (affecting the GOE of the quad toe), and the 3A-3A popped. His planned base value was over 100 points and ended up being 82 (along with lower GOE than expected because he made errors).

But hey, somebody should make a template of the "UNFAIR JUDGEMENT" sign so certain fans could just bring it to any competition, even ones where their fave skater wins by a landslide but don't get 10's and +5s across the board. Because that is the mentality of these fans is to cry UNFAIR JUDGEMENT before the skaters even step out on the ice... because in their own minds, no score is good enough or fair enough other than a perfect one for their favourite and any rival, in their minds, deserves no more than score X even if they skate lights out. And to add to the ridiculousness of it all, they think whining about it with salty signs and arena vandalism will actually convince the ISU to listen to their POV!

 

[KatGrace1925]

No scoring discourse excuses disrespectful actions and such disrespectful actions are not going to be viewed as anything other than petty. There has been discourse about ISU scoring since the beginning of the new system, and it will continue for a long time. That isn't a new discussion, but it doesn't look meaningful when the optics become petty. These people aren't calling out the scoring unilaterally, they're upset at the scoring of the skater that is a rival to their favorite and the optics of that are not in those fans favor.

 

[gkelly]

It is possible for people who weren't on the official technical panel to look at video of elements and come up with their own calls according to the rules. If those people who are second guessing the original calls are equally familiar with all the relevant rules and have access to video from the same angle that the tech panel was using, with equal or better resolution, then they might legitimately uncover some incorrect calls.

Relying on broadcast or fan videos from other angles or applying rules selectively or making up rules/procedures that they wish existed and that might or might not be good ideas but don't currently exist is not approaching the question fairly. If all you have is videos from different angles, just as tech panels need to give skaters the benefit of the doubt, to be fair fans need to give tech panels the benefit of the doubt.

Currently there is no procedure for correcting obvious calling errors (e.g., 2Lo instead of 3Lo) discovered after the scores are finalized. Lobbying for a better correction protocol for these kinds of factual errors would be more profitable than focusing too closely on scores for specific skaters at specific events.

For judges' scores, the only times when it is legitimately possible to say that a score is "incorrect" would be if any judge gave GOE higher than -3 for an element with a "serious error" as defined in the latest GOE guidelines, or higher than -5 for a short program combination not according to requirements.

Also, as of the latest PCS guidelines, any judge who awarded scores higher than 9.5 to the specified components for a program with one fall or higher than 9.0 for a program with multiple falls.

Any other score that someone else disagrees with, including the referee or other judges on the panel, is simply a difference of opinion. The referee's or a fan's different evaluation of what an element or component was worth may be the correct evaluation from that person's viewpoint, but it's not inherently more correct than any other knowledgeable person's evaluation. There's no such thing as a single "correct" GOE or component score, because there are multiple possible correct scores. In the few cases mentioned above, there can be incorrect scores. And there can certainly be "better" or "worse" scores that do a better or worse job of reflecting what the skater actually did and applying the written guidelines to reflect that numerically.

Rarely, judges might make data input errors. In that case the score is incorrect, but only the judge who input the incorrect score knows what they really intended to enter, i.e., what that judge's correct assessment of that element or component should have been. Outsiders might notice anomalies, but they can't correct them.

And in most cases, the "drop high and low" procedure and the averaging of remaining scores will mean that the effect of any such error on the total score will be on the order of hundredths or at most tenths of points. Yes, sometimes close contests are decided that closely. But when scores are that close, it can legitimately be argued that both/all skaters involved would have deserved the win (or other placement) and this result is just how it happened to come out with this panel on this occasion.

If fans want to lobby for fairer scoring, it would be best to focus on how to make the procedures better in the future, with full understanding of the real-world constraints that affect officials' decisions. Declaring their own opinions the correct ones and official scores incorrect solely because they disagree is not the way to effect positive change.

Nor, of course, is focusing on the results of a single specific skater, rather than looking at the scoring processes as a whole.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

It is possible for people who weren't on the official technical panel to look at video of elements and come up with their own calls according to the rules. If those people who are second guessing the original calls are equally familiar with all the relevant rules and have access to video from the same angle that the tech panel was using, with equal or better resolution, then they might legitimately uncover some incorrect calls.

Relying on broadcast or fan videos from other angles or applying rules selectively or making up rules/procedures that they wish existed and that might or might not be good ideas but don't currently exist is not approaching the question fairly. If all you have is videos from different angles, just as tech panels need to give skaters the benefit of the doubt, to be fair fans need to give tech panels the benefit of the doubt.

Currently there is no procedure for correcting obvious calling errors (e.g., 2Lo instead of 3Lo) discovered after the scores are finalized. Lobbying for a better correction protocol for these kinds of factual errors would be more profitable than focusing too closely on scores for specific skaters at specific events.

For judges' scores, the only times when it is legitimately possible to say that a score is "incorrect" would be if any judge gave GOE higher than -3 for an element with a "serious error" as defined in the latest GOE guidelines, or higher than -5 for a short program combination not according to requirements.

Also, as of the latest PCS guidelines, any judge who awarded scores higher than 9.5 to the specified components for a program with one fall or higher than 9.0 for a program with multiple falls.

Any other score that someone else disagrees with, including the referee or other judges on the panel, is simply a difference of opinion. The referee's or a fan's different evaluation of what an element or component was worth may be the correct evaluation from that person's viewpoint, but it's not inherently more correct than any other knowledgeable person's evaluation. There's no such thing as a single "correct" GOE or component score, because there are multiple possible correct scores. In the few cases mentioned above, there can be incorrect scores. And there can certainly be "better" or "worse" scores that do a better or worse job of reflecting what the skater actually did and applying the written guidelines to reflect that numerically.

Rarely, judges might make data input errors. In that case the score is incorrect, but only the judge who input the incorrect score knows what they really intended to enter, i.e., what that judge's correct assessment of that element or component should have been. Outsiders might notice anomalies, but they can't correct them.

And in most cases, the "drop high and low" procedure and the averaging of remaining scores will mean that the effect of any such error on the total score will be on the order of hundredths or at most tenths of points. Yes, sometimes close contests are decided that closely. But when scores are that close, it can legitimately be argued that both/all skaters involved would have deserved the win (or other placement) and this result is just how it happened to come out with this panel on this occasion.

If fans want to lobby for fairer scoring, it would be best to focus on how to make the procedures better in the future, with full understanding of the real-world constraints that affect officials' decisions. Declaring their own opinions the correct ones and official scores incorrect solely because they disagree is not the way to effect positive change.

Nor, of course, is focusing on the results of a single specific skater, rather than looking at the scoring processes as a whole.

Great post. It is also important for fans to not insert their own bias (even though that's impossible) - because then they have a double standard when it comes to assessing their own faves vs a rival. They'll think every jump their fave does is effortless/matches musical structure/etc. but it's not always the case.

I've seen TONS of posts whining about Hanyu not getting +5's across the board on his 4Z. It's ironic, given how many criticized Chen's previously high GOE on his 4Z which didn't have steps in or out (the latter which shouldn't affect GOE).

But then when Hanyu does a 4Z here with no transitions in or out that doesn't match the musical structure and is a bit forward on the toe on the landing they demand +5 GOE... meanwhile Chen actually did a nice 4Z with choctaw steps in and a spread eagle coming out of it (again, exit transitions shouldn't increase GOE) they're suddenly flummoxed as to why Chen got higher GOE on the element. And have the gall to maintain that Chen has minimal transitions in his program.

 

[TontoK]

The fact that some people here seem to think scoring discourse is not worthwhile just because it wouldn't change the podium is sad to hear. What about all of the skaters that never had a chance to make the podium but are constantly being scored unfairly because they're from a small federation or excel in one area (PCS or TES) but not the other but get scored as if they are bad in both? They might not podium but placing 14th or 10th might be the difference in whether they can get some funding or any kind of sponsorship, no matter how small, that would make training easier.

Even then, so what if it doesn't change the podium? It changes WR, PB, SB and all these things can have an impact on someone's career or place in history as a top skater. As we can see though, lately WR doesn't seem to mean anything as there is a new one every week even when skaters make mistakes ;-;

Scoring matters and should be as accurate and fair as it could be even when it doesn't change much, or anything. Otherwise, what is the point of calling it a sport?

(I wrote this really quickly so sorry if i come across as incoherent or am not communicating my message effectively).

Edit: I'm of course not condoning or counting vandalism as scoring discourse. The behaviour exhibited by these two people is disgusting and should be punished to the fullest extent.

I didn't say scoring issues were unworthy of discourse.

In fact, I said that we discussed that here because we aren't casual fans.

The main point of the scoring system is to sort the skaters from best to worst. I repeat what I wrote earlier: The scoring system was pretty danged good in terms of sorting out the skaters in terms of placement.

I asked for recent examples where the scoring had resulted in an undeserving skater winning. I still haven't seen any.

At this competition, I think it is clear that Hanyu was the second best skater. He earned a silver medal. The system did its job.

I look forward to the next duel, which I suppose will be at Worlds, rather than 4CC.

 

[eaglehelang]

The idea that the people who vandalized the wall are understandably frustrated by the ISU scoring or have even just semi-sympathetic motivations is laughable. Of all the times to fight the unfair scoring battle, these so-called fans want to whine about the competition where Nathan skated lights out perfect and Yuzuru, despite his best efforts, made crucial errors in both programs that would have drastically changed his scores if he went clean. All this wuzrobbed nonsense would make you think they'd had the opposite performances.

If you have a bone to pick with the ISU judging system, file an official complaint, vent online, stop watching, whatever. But scribbling petty insults on a wall in the very iconic arena the athletes were skating in, or holding up those childish signs during the men's victory ceremony right where the medalists could see... pathetic.

Formal complaints have been filed, from what I understand, multiple times. ISU's response though has been found wanting.

Then the same fans who challenge "Go make a formal complaint" complains abt the formal complaint/protest being made. -> "You all are sour grapers"

 

[eaglehelang]

I would love to compare the number of times that such fans advocate for their fave deserving higher scores compared to the number of times these same fans advocate for the aforementioned skaters from smaller/less popular federations deserving higher scores.

On the skaters from small Fed thingy, complaints have been made, we do not make big hu ha, no need to.

 

[KatGrace1925]

Formal complaints have been filed, from what I understand, multiple times. ISU's response though has been found wanting.

Then the same fans who challenge "Go make a formal complaint" complains abt the formal complaint/protest being made. -> "You all are sour grapers"

My personal quandary is why should the ISU actually care about clearly biased fans complaints when the skaters, their federations and coaching staff are not the ones filing these complaints? I am sure they have much bigger things to deal with.

 

[TontoK]

On the skaters from small Fed thingy, complaints have been made, we do not make big hu ha, no need to.

About this "smaller federations" thing. Is it really the case?

Because I think think of plenty of counter-examples.

Just the week, the Junior Ice Dance champs are from Georgia. Canada, not exactly what I'd call a small federation, was represented across all disciplines - junior and senior - by exactly one pair and one ice dance team, both of whom finished in the bottom half of the standings.

Since 2006, the USA ladies, once a supremely dominant force, have one exactly ONE WC medal... same as Finland and Kazakhstan. In that time, skaters from Korea and Italy have won the WC. Now, granted, those were not run-of-the-mill skaters, but nonetheless, their federations were small.

Since 2006, Big Federations Canada, USA and Russia have a combined 6 WC Ice Dance golds. France, Bulgaria and Italy have 8 combined.

I don't remember the exact year, but an Australian pair were Junior World Champs.

As I type this, Javier Fernandez from Spain has as many WC Gold medals as Nathan Chen and Yuzuru Hanyu.

Are smaller federations disadvantaged? Yeah, I'd probably agree they are, especially in terms of access to world class coaching at a young age... but real talent is rewarded.

 

[guitarist]

It is possible for people who weren't on the official technical panel to look at video of elements and come up with their own calls according to the rules. If those people who are second guessing the original calls are equally familiar with all the relevant rules and have access to video from the same angle that the tech panel was using, with equal or better resolution, then they might legitimately uncover some incorrect calls.

Relying on broadcast or fan videos from other angles or applying rules selectively or making up rules/procedures that they wish existed and that might or might not be good ideas but don't currently exist is not approaching the question fairly. If all you have is videos from different angles, just as tech panels need to give skaters the benefit of the doubt, to be fair fans need to give tech panels the benefit of the doubt.

Currently there is no procedure for correcting obvious calling errors (e.g., 2Lo instead of 3Lo) discovered after the scores are finalized. Lobbying for a better correction protocol for these kinds of factual errors would be more profitable than focusing too closely on scores for specific skaters at specific events.

For judges' scores, the only times when it is legitimately possible to say that a score is "incorrect" would be if any judge gave GOE higher than -3 for an element with a "serious error" as defined in the latest GOE guidelines, or higher than -5 for a short program combination not according to requirements.

Also, as of the latest PCS guidelines, any judge who awarded scores higher than 9.5 to the specified components for a program with one fall or higher than 9.0 for a program with multiple falls.

Any other score that someone else disagrees with, including the referee or other judges on the panel, is simply a difference of opinion. The referee's or a fan's different evaluation of what an element or component was worth may be the correct evaluation from that person's viewpoint, but it's not inherently more correct than any other knowledgeable person's evaluation. There's no such thing as a single "correct" GOE or component score, because there are multiple possible correct scores. In the few cases mentioned above, there can be incorrect scores. And there can certainly be "better" or "worse" scores that do a better or worse job of reflecting what the skater actually did and applying the written guidelines to reflect that numerically.

Rarely, judges might make data input errors. In that case the score is incorrect, but only the judge who input the incorrect score knows what they really intended to enter, i.e., what that judge's correct assessment of that element or component should have been. Outsiders might notice anomalies, but they can't correct them.

And in most cases, the "drop high and low" procedure and the averaging of remaining scores will mean that the effect of any such error on the total score will be on the order of hundredths or at most tenths of points. Yes, sometimes close contests are decided that closely. But when scores are that close, it can legitimately be argued that both/all skaters involved would have deserved the win (or other placement) and this result is just how it happened to come out with this panel on this occasion.

If fans want to lobby for fairer scoring, it would be best to focus on how to make the procedures better in the future, with full understanding of the real-world constraints that affect officials' decisions. Declaring their own opinions the correct ones and official scores incorrect solely because they disagree is not the way to effect positive change.

Nor, of course, is focusing on the results of a single specific skater, rather than looking at the scoring processes as a whole.

Good post. I agree that it's hard to actually point out any big errors. Aside from the very obvious ones, like, say, those two judges who gave -4 for a fall in junior men.

The system, as others have mentioned, does a good job at determining the top placements, but it doesn't mean the scores really reflect what the skaters did, and I'm not exactly sure how it can be improved, other than training judges out of their current scoring style. I think one of the biggest problems is PCS scoring. It seems fairly obvious to me that it's a broken system. How is it that, for a given skater, each PCS category is always within .25-.5 points, when each category is judging a different aspect of skating? If a skater has good SS, but not many transitions, why doesn't the score reflect that? Or great musical interpretation, but not-so-great SS? Obviously, the very top skaters tend to be very competent at all categories, but the way the current system works, the skaters in the middle of the pack don't get rewarded for their best skills. And it's also very easy to notice the trend - as tech content goes up, so does PCS. If the system really worked (and sorry, I was trying not to bring up names, but I failed), Jason Brown would get higher PCS than Yuzu and Nathan. Or skaters like Donovan Carrillo would have a much higher score for interpretation. Or skaters' PCS wouldn't suddenly drop significantly because their tech content is lower. It's easy to dismiss any criticism as sore fans upset because their favorite didn't win, but to me, that attitude is annoying because this is something that affects more than just the top skaters.

As for other ways to improve the scoring, I wish the ISU would do more to investigate judges whose scores significantly deviate from the others. If fans can notice just by looking at something as simple as standard deviation, the ISU can, as well. It's rather interesting to look at the scores and notice things like national bias, or simply a judge whose scores are consistently off. For that last one, I can think of one particular judge (not from GPF) whose scores made me go: ???? because they didn't seem to be scoring some skaters higher, or others lower, but the scores were always significantly different from what the other judges picked. Perhaps ISU could take action against judges who consistently show bias (of any kind), or offer more training for judges with less experience. Now, for all we know, the ISU actually does things like that, but it certainly doesn't seem like it because those scoring... anomalies, shall we call them, keep happening.

Anyway, I know this thread wasn't really about the scoring, I just wanted to reply to gkelly's post. As for the actual topic at hand, what those fans did is deplorable, and I hope action was taken against them other than just being scorted out. But I certainly hope people won't lump all Hanyu fans into a bucket. I would certainly never even think of doing something like that, and I've yet to meet a fan crazy enough to do so...

 

[yude]

I have seen Hanyu in person only twice in Japan in 2014 and 2015. After that I have been following him on TV and mostly on twitter, and my account follows only 70 persons (most of all are figure skaters) and has only about 30 followers who has nothing to do with the sport.
I have been enjoying the chat in his thread and sometimes in the Edge, but I think it is the time to take down my avatar before I will be bullied in this forum