2019-20 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating

[skylark]

In my opinion..even the high level US teams are not near her level.

Not even near her level? I disagree, as do many judges, both national and international. Alexa's very talented, but she's not exclusive at the top level. Other top pairs may have different strengths from hers. Not everyone can see them, but plenty do.

Tara said, and I quote “the other pairs are good quality. The Knierims are world quality.”

That's not the first time Tara's said something which is questionable, over the top, and unnecessarily divisive.

This make me so glad I have NBC Gold. Tanith and Charlie speak positively about each pair, point out gently and with empathy where they think a team could advance if they improved certain qualities, and celebrate every team.

And most of all, Tanith and Charlie don't pit US teams against each other in such a way.


ETA: If I'm not mistaken, a top ten finish at worlds would qualify a team to be called "world quality." Ashley and Tim were 9th at 2019 Worlds.

 

[skylark]

Originally Posted by TontoK
I think (but I'm not sure) this is a similar situation to Denney/Frasier, where his partner's parents are pretty much financing the partnership. Tough for him to leave that and walk into a gig where money will always be an issue.

This is speculation, as you said. I don't see any evidence of it at all. Tim banked his cruise salaries specifically for the purpose of paying for elite training. Also, Ashley and Tim have medalled at a lot of competitions, including Challengers, Nationals, GPs, and 4CCs. Presumably there's prize money involved in some or most. They make lots of local skating appearances in and around Dallas, and elsewhere (recently in Nashville, Lake Placid and Moscow.) Also, Tim and Ashley both work coaching younger skaters at their rink. The Cains might be waiving some of Tim's fees, but I doubt it. Tim strikes me as the type to insist on paying his own way. If anyone has proof that I'm wrong, so be it.

More importantly, I really don't believe that Tim would split with Ashley to skate with Alexa. I've read lots of interviews of CG/L over the past 3 years. Tim repeatedly says how close and connected he and Ashley are, how much he admires her and wanted to skate with her, and how much she inspires him.

Unless he were to do it with Ashley's blessing. But Ashley's a fierce competitor and going strong. I don't see it, barring unexpected pregnancy. Hmm ... maybe a fan fiction??? But not with Ashley and Tim as characters. I'd choose another US pair.

 

[desertskates]

I wonder about Zack Sidhu for Alexa I don't recall the details of his split with Calalang, and I wonder if he is skating at all or has any desire to skate.

 

[skylark]

I wonder about Zack Sidhu for Alexa I don't recall the details of his split with Calalang, and I wonder if he is skating at all or has any desire to skate.

I'm almost certain I read something recently saying he and Calalang split because of Zack's injuries, and he retired. Sorry I can't provide the actual reference.

I re-watched the whole 2018 Nationals skates last night. Ernie Utah Stevens looked to me like a really good candidate: strong, and he had a flair, and he's 26 now. Then I read a few of his tweets or IGs (not sure which) ... and it looked to me like he has a very happy, settled life that doesn't include skating. But he posted pictures of some of the US nationals performances, so he still likes FS.

In another subject regarding current pairs:

Back to Jessica and Zack ... according to TSL, they were a couple when they were skating together. It has always struck me that Jessica looks so much less worried and stressed while skating with Brian than she did when skating with Zack. And the 2018 video really underlines that impression. She's so much freer to perform now, and fulfill her artistry and potential.

That's something that bothered me about Alexa and Chris in the last few years. He obviously always cared about Alexa during their skates. I personally felt that he didn't really care about performing for the audience members. It was one thing that made me more detached when watching them. Some beautiful elements, but little outreach or connection.

 

[theharleyquinn]

Alexa and Chris had a top-tier twist (although Jessica and Brian are very good also). They had great lifts and Alexa lands throws well. While they weren't consistent, I think their scores indicated (and most commentators agree) that their elements, when on, were up there with the some of the class of the international field. I feel pretty comfortable saying that, and I wouldn't imagine saying anything similar for a U.S. team other than Jessica and Brian once they've had more events under their belt.

 

[Skater Boy]

I see a great future for Jessica and Brian. I think they are getting consistent; she has some lovely style and they have power and momentum. As for Alexa, I am not sure therer is a lot out there and I am not sure if breaking up current teams is her goal. I still think this choice will be hard on the marriage/relatoinship. They love each other but this will test the relationship.

 

[labgoat]

Please comment on this idea...

Alexa & Tim LeDuc as one team. Would it work for Ashley Cain to skate with Harley Windsor?

 

[Olympic]

Please comment on this idea...

Alexa & Tim LeDuc as one team. Would it work for Ashley Cain to skate with Harley Windsor?

Alexa and Tim would be tantalizing - CG/L's weak elements right now (throw jumps and lifts) would be improved at least on paper - Alexa has a better record on landing powerful throws and Alexa is smaller than Ashley so the lifts would theoretically go smoothly. Tim has an obviously better record on SBS jumps, so that would take care of that issue which plagued the Knierims. Finally, Tim's on-ice personality is much bigger than Chris's and closer to Alexa's, so there probably would be a PCS bump.

However, the magical twist by Knierims would be smaller and maybe no SBS 3 loops (that last one is probably not a big deal)

But honestly, there would be a lot of collateral damage and no guarantee it would work. Ashley would have to bow out for the transition to be smooth and BTW, don't think it would ever really happen

 

[Skater Boy]

Please comment on this idea...

Alexa & Tim LeDuc as one team. Would it work for Ashley Cain to skate with Harley Windsor?

Were you watching the Skating Lesson and finding a partner for Alexa. I don't think this is realistc. Ashley and Windsor would hae issuees with who to skate for and getting the right papers. After all that time and energy invested in a skating realtionship she would also probably have to wait another four so six years before they would get citizenship issues straightened out. I am not sure Alexa's beliefs and faith woa conscience would prevevent the split.

 

[lucyrose]

To me, Alexa is by far the strongest female pairs skater the US has. She has improved so much and while on a personal level she has done and said some off putting things, she is really unmatched on an ability level (IMO).

I would absolutely love to see her with Tim or Danny. I think that the whole "breaking up" a partnership is the wrong way to look at things. This is a job, and these skaters' livelihoods. It needs to transcend hurt feelings and be about the best programs and best chances for success because quite frankly they have bills to pay. I find sometimes US skaters fail to capitalize on opportunity and the US pairs have been so stagnant for years. Ultimately both CG/L and K/O have serious technical limitations and a lot of it is due to weakness in the ladies. As long as it's done in a professional and honest way, I don't think that it would be wrong for anyone to seek out Alexa because she is unequivocally a strong pairs skater. This is a job, these are all adults, and people need to be professional.

 

[Skater Boy]

Alexa and Tim would be tantalizing - CG/L's weak elements right now (throw jumps and lifts) would be improved at least on paper - Alexa has a better record on landing powerful throws and Alexa is smaller than Ashley so the lifts would theoretically go smoothly. Tim has an obviously better record on SBS jumps, so that would take care of that issue which plagued the Knierims. Finally, Tim's on-ice personality is much bigger than Chris's and closer to Alexa's, so there probably would be a PCS bump.

However, the magical twist by Knierims would be smaller and maybe no SBS 3 loops (that last one is probably not a big deal)

But honestly, there would be a lot of collateral damage and no guarantee it would work. Ashley would have to bow out for the transition to be smooth and BTW, don't think it would ever really happen

I forgot about the time sitting out. i think this will be some American drama. I am glad Alexa is her own person and a personality to be reckoned with. I think this goes beyone just finding her a partner. There will be consequences possibly to other skaters and teams and even her marriage and perhaps faith as they are all part of her. It is easy to say love is enough but people are flesh - emotions, feelings. Sayig the right thing is one thing but the heart knows differently some time. I can imagine if a team did split of course there would be the PR comments the split was going to happen anyway, it was for the better, I wish so and so well they deserve the best to e happy. I am not saying Alexa is to blame for her dreams and esires - they should be considered but who knows what this really will do to her relationship with Chris - yes we see many relationships where they have differrent goals but it is more rare when you started with the same goal and then it changed and watching your wife with another person when you used to be that person even if you are allowing it. Easier to say that's fine on paper. Especially when for two years there will be a lot offocus on the new skating couple getting their act togeteher for a run at the olympics. No one is to blame I am just saying the dynamis will be interesting I really do wish Alexa and Chris well and I know I shold be positive but we have seen that for every Aliona Savchenko moment there is a Ksenia, Kavaguti Smirnov, Randy and Tai, Z and E, Jill Trenary, Tiffany Chin, etc. All great promise and some ties things don't work out with oly glory.

 

[Spiralgraph]

Again I disagree entirely with these some of the above opinions. This outlook is focused on the short term possible results and will negatively affect how pairs are looked at as a discipline in the US. What happens if next year another female US pair lady becomes available she has two solid triples and a fine resume. So under this scenario a current pair team can break up and the man can become the new partner for this new pair lady? That's very discouraging for any American pair lady, who now knows she can be dumped at any time because her partner has a better offer. Pairs need time to gel, even high level and it's very unlikely a pair will be at their peak in a year or even two.
And Alexa has had her own problems as a skater these last few seasons. I agree with Skylark, pitting one team against the other, looking at any skater as a commodity that can be exchanged for another as long as its done in a "professional" way disturbs me. As far as I know US team members are supportive of their fellow pair teams, even though they are competitors. that would end abruptly under that idea.

 

[lucyrose]

Again I disagree entirely with lucyrose's opinion. This outlook is focused on the short term possible results and will negatively affect how pairs are looked at as a discipline in the US. What happens if next year another female US pair lady becomes available she has two solid triples and a fine resume. So under lucyrose's scenario a current pair team can break up and the man can become the new partner for this new pair lady? That's very discouraging for any American pair lady, who now knows she can be dumped at any time because her partner has a better offer. Pairs need time to gel, even high level and it's very unlikely a pair will be at their peak in a year or even two.
And Alexa has had her own problems as a skater these last few seasons. I agree with Skylark, pitting one team against the other, looking at any skater as a commodity that can be exchanged for another as long as its done in a "professional" way disturbs me. As far as I know US team members are supportive of their fellow pair teams, even though they are competitors. that would end abruptly under that idea.

Is there another US pair girl besides Jessica that can do two solid triples and has solid pair elements??? Here's the thing- Alexa is not just any pairs lady- she is the strongest BY FAR pairs lady we have. Opportunities like this don't just show up every year. The other pairs teams are stagnant. We are not seeing steady improvement, it's the same technical limitations a different day. The options are continue as we are and continue to have no chance at a world medal let alone Olympic medal vs take a chance a really optimize our strengths. We will probably only have 1 pairs spot for the Olympics.

 

[Skater Boy]

To me, Alexa is by far the strongest female pairs skater the US has. She has improved so much and while on a personal level she has done and said some off putting things, she is really unmatched on an ability level (IMO).

I would absolutely love to see her with Tim or Danny. I think that the whole "breaking up" a partnership is the wrong way to look at things. This is a job, and these skaters' livelihoods. It needs to transcend hurt feelings and be about the best programs and best chances for success because quite frankly they have bills to pay. I find sometimes US skaters fail to capitalize on opportunity and the US pairs have been so stagnant for years. Ultimately both CG/L and K/O have serious technical limitations and a lot of it is due to weakness in the ladies. As long as it's done in a professional and honest way, I don't think that it would be wrong for anyone to seek out Alexa because she is unequivocally a strong pairs skater. This is a job, these are all adults, and people need to be professional.

Be a professional...this is hard when you have flesh/feelings. There is a marriage, there is all that time invested in a relationship skating wise, not to mention time and money, We are dealing with real people. And we are dealing with pairs skating - the strongest individuals do not make necessarily the strongest team. No I in team.

 

[Skater Boy]

Is there another US pair girl besides Jessica that can do two solid triples and has solid pair elements??? Here's the thing- Alexa is not just any pairs lady- she is the strongest BY FAR pairs lady we have. Opportunities like this don't just show up every year. The other pairs teams are stagnant. We are not seeing steady improvement, it's the same technical limitations a different day. The options are continue as we are and continue to have no chance at a world medal let alone Olympic medal vs take a chance a really optimize our strengths. We will probably only have 1 pairs spot for the Olympics.

Let's not go all cray cray. The US will be hard pressed to lose two spots come olympics or worlds. They are closer to gainign three spots than going down to 1. No histronics please. Alexa is good and maybe USAs top ladies but Jessica is up and coming. Alexa also while good is still not proven as a pairs jjups et al. Just because there was potential and some godo results Chris does not mean lightning will strike twice. My concern is finding the right parnter and enough time to gel as a team. It will be a different relationship; there won't ge the natural romance and care for the partner. I give her full credit because she obviously wants it badly. At age 28, having gone to the olympics with a team medal many would have said focus on the family and future career.

 

[slider11]

Besides having 2 regularly consistent jumps, Alexa has strong lift positions, throws and expression. She is uniquely world class. Of course, you need compatability with a male partner to make these other elements work. Two years is not alot of time to get it together but my guess is that the Mennos are scrambling quickly to find her a compatible US partner. No time to work out citizenship. Brandon, Tim, Danny, Nate...who else? If they are going to make it work my guess is that a partnership will be formed by the summer.

 

[Spiralgraph]

If the USA will only have 1 pairs spot at the Olympics and assuming that Alexa finds a quality partner really soon.. that means that it doesn't matter. Alexa and her new partner will finish below the top ten at worlds or so will the other US team whoever it could be and they still will not attain those two spots at the Olympics? Then I think the assumption that Alexa is an elite pair skater is incorrect. If she is the best we have, and she poaches a partner from another team for Worlds and they still don't get two spots for the Olympics? hmm.

 

[Tahuu]

Please comment on this idea...

Alexa & Tim LeDuc as one team. Would it work for Ashley Cain to skate with Harley Windsor?

That’s an interesting solution, if the Cains’ are OK with a split and want to contribute to their motherland!

Ashley might already has dual citizenship. If not, she can get it by decent in 63 days, as she was born to a parent who is or was an Australian citizen.

 

[Zamin]

Please comment on this idea...

Alexa & Tim LeDuc as one team. Would it work for Ashley Cain to skate with Harley Windsor?

Nope, nope, nope. I mean I could see Alexa and Tim skating together. There's some strong arguments in favor of the match (even though I definitely do not want it to happen. CG/L have such a distinctive style on the ice, and so much to bring, imho, to the current pairs field in terms of artistry). But I absolutely can't see Ashley skating with Harley. Harley is definitely not the best partner there is, he and Katya managed the lifts, but the twist was not great, and the throws gave me heart attack. He was realy bad at throwing his partner across the ice. Katya was alsmot always way off-axis, and it's a testiment to her abilities that she managed to land.

Also compare Katya's height with Ashley. Ashley is really tall for a pairs girl. She and Tim took a long time to hone those elements and be completely at ease with each other. Okay their lifts are not top-class but they have made such progress over the last few years. This year they look more secure than they've ever been. I can't see Ashley going through all that again. With a good pairs skater maybe. Not with Harley.

 

[labgoat]

Were you watching the Skating Lesson and finding a partner for Alexa. I don't think this is realistic. Ashley and Windsor would hae issues with who to skate for and getting the right papers. After all that time and energy invested in a skating relationship she would also probably have to wait another four so six years before they would get citizenship issues straightened out. I am not sure Alexa's beliefs and faith woa conscience would prevent the split.

Actually I was on Golden Skate and thinking about Two skaters without partners - Alexa & Harley. Realizing you could not put them together with regards to citizenship issues. I then thought of Harley being Australian and Ashley having an Aussie parent...and came up with this wild idea as a way of satisfying my wishful thinking for both pairs.