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Thread: Patrick Chan

  1. #21
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    I first saw Chan skate at 4CC 2009. Even with a mild infelicity (the lack of flow on the 3-3 combo), it's one of the great SP skates, imo. The precision of movement, the technical difficulty of the choreography, the terrific musicality, that HUGE triple axel. Clearly a man to watch. So even when he struggled with injury, the sudden coaching change, the tendency to run his mouth, I can help but respond to what he does.

    And that legendary skate at Canadian Nationals. Man alive, that was epic. As he improves over the years, I hope to see him pushing himself further - different choregraphers, different emotional goals in his programs, but even if he doesn't, he'll always be one of my favourites.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    Strange, why aren't there many posts? I thought it would have been several pages already. Come on, don't be shy. Let's give Chan some support.
    I know.....I feel bad for not writing more, as I just adore this skater! But, grading, holiday shopping, house cleaning for guests...it's a very busy time right now for many.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravensque View Post
    I hope he performs at Nats this year just like he did in 2010 Nats......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPcPTXUh1uA. It was awsome.
    This!
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I first saw Chan skate at 4CC 2009. Even with a mild infelicity (the lack of flow on the 3-3 combo), it's one of the great SP skates, imo. The precision of movement, the technical difficulty of the choreography, the terrific musicality, that HUGE triple axel. Clearly a man to watch. So even when he struggled with injury, the sudden coaching change, the tendency to run his mouth, I can help but respond to what he does.

    And that legendary skate at Canadian Nationals. Man alive, that was epic. As he improves over the years, I hope to see him pushing himself further - different choregraphers, different emotional goals in his programs, but even if he doesn't, he'll always be one of my favourites.
    That's so great that you have seen him live - I do hope to have the opportunity. And you saw him with that amazing performance at nationals?? wow!! As a figure skating fan, I feel we are so lucky to have skaters like Chan who are not only amazing, but keep trying to learn and grow and improve or change.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I'm curious; is that blade control something innate, or can it be taught? Obviously it must be emphasized by the coach, whether it's inborn or not, but can someone have more of it than someone else just by natural gift?
    I'm sure an experienced coach could answer better than I could. But I think it's a combination -- some kids have a natural gift for finding their balance over the blade and for controlling the path the blade makes over the ice with efficient use of their whole body, so if they're taught the necessary skills they will learn them easily.

    I say "kids" because I think it helps a lot to start young while movement habits and neural pathways are still forming. But there are still differences in this kind of talent among skaters of the same age.

    Others have to struggle more to achieve control and will never make it look effortless.

    Still, a skater of average talent who started training edge skills at an early age (e.g., school figures or other stroking exercises that demand precision) will probably do better than a skater who is naturally gifted but self-taught or taught by a coach who doesn't focus on that kind of technique.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I'm curious; is that blade control something innate, or can it be taught? Obviously it must be emphasized by the coach, whether it's inborn or not, but can someone have more of it than someone else just by natural gift?
    The quietness of blade is a once in a generation kind of skater. It's innate and can't be taught. You can learn to be a quieter skater who generates power effortlessly if your coaches emphasize skating skills, but there are few skaters who can skate like THAT, no matter how hard they work. Chan, Kwan, Lynn, Curry, and Fleming are skaters that are typically grouped together as those kinds of skaters.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    The quietness of blade is a once in a generation kind of skater. It's innate and can't be taught. You can learn to be a quieter skater who generates power effortlessly if your coaches emphasize skating skills, but there are few skaters who can skate like THAT, no matter how hard they work. Chan, Kwan, Lynn, Curry, and Fleming are skaters that are typically grouped together as those kinds of skaters.
    Sorry but what does the quietness of blade mean? I think when when Patrick Chan skates it's not quiet at all.

  6. #26
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    I don't think Patrick is extremely musical but he's definitely above average in that department. He showed great improvement in his LP this year, and I start to believe that he is quite musical. I like his honesty and unguarded personality but he does need to think before speak to better phrase his thought. I also wish reporters stop trapping him. I love his skating skill and his constant improvement. I'd like him to be a little bit more modest but I guess a champion needs that kind of spirit somehow. I wish he ditch his SP, it was not that good the first round, and becomes boring for the second year. I wish he explore more styles in choreography but nobody is one-fit-all, so I'm fine if he sticks with what he likes best. I want to see clean performances at nationals and at World with abundance in performance as he did in the later part of his LP during the GPF. It was great. I'd like to see him put that second type of quad into his LP some day before 2014 and get the top notch technical difficulty with consistency and get OGM. He's a very nice young man/boy and I wish him all the best!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilvskating View Post
    I don't think Patrick is extremely musical but he's definitely above average in that department. He showed great improvement in his LP this year, and I start to believe that he is quite musical. I like his honesty and unguarded personality but he does need to think before speak to better phrase his thought. I also wish reporters stop trapping him. I love his skating skill and his constant improvement. I'd like him to be a little bit more modest but I guess a champion needs that kind of spirit somehow. I wish he ditch his SP, it was not that good the first round, and becomes boring for the second year. I wish he explore more styles in choreography but nobody is one-fit-all, so I'm fine if he sticks with what he likes best. I want to see clean performances at nationals and at World with abundance in performance as he did in the later part of his LP during the GPF. It was great. I'd like to see him put that second type of quad into his LP some day before 2014 and get the top notch technical difficulty with consistency and get OGM. He's a very nice young man/boy and I wish him all the best!
    He is very musical, but he cannot move his head, body and hands the way Takahashi does. He doesn't have it.

  8. #28
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    So Patrick will skate next at Japan Nationals Gala. Nice to be invited; it shows his skating is appreciated in Japan. I'm sure he'll enjoy watching the competitions too, especially Men. I hope to be able to celebrate Christmas with Japan Nationals on stream.

    This season has been too full of drama for Patrick. Last season he started out with raised techical level but debuting 4t tripped him mentally. First competition this season, 2 falls were excusable though they were really freaky, a random fall and the clicking of blades into the 4T resulting in the fall after the jump was completed. Then he was sick for TEB and carried it into the GPF, in addition to the tremendous distraction and stress from the manufactured controversy.

    Will he add a new quad at the Nationals? If he had skated the GPF clean, I would guess he wil, as that would mirror last year's progress that he's modeling this year's on. There is a month between the GPF and the Nationals so there is plenty of time for him to get well and catch up with his training, which suffered from a short busy summer. So it depends much on his progress and confidence on the new quad and the program. Will he pull both off, skating a clean program with an additional quad, like he did last year? I am pulling for him to do well, with or without the new quad. We deserve a flawless Patrick Chan's Aranjuez for eternity.

    Last year's Nationals was the final pratice for Worlds, a dress rehearsal in his mind and it was mightly successful. This year he will go to the 4CC before Worlds since it's held in the US, not in Asia like last year. More practice and more prize money, why not? (He was probably counting on it, and the Japan Gala, when he donated half his GPF's prize. )

    Patrick has a habit of delivering what he says. So I guess we can wait to hear from him again. Sometimes I wish he wouldn't have to announce his plan before he skates but there's no escaping it as a headliner Skate Canada counts on for promotion of the events it sponsors.

    Go Patrick!

  9. #29
    Bona Fide Member mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing787 View Post
    Sorry but what does the quietness of blade mean? I think when when Patrick Chan skates it's not quiet at all.
    You've never been around a skater who has that factor, then. If you ever just saw Kwan (or Chan) just stroke around the rink without any music playing, there's a quietness to it versus most other skaters when they are accelerating. I can't even describe it. It's an innate skill that has to be cultivated by a knowledgable coach. As I said, anyone can learn to stroke nicely and fairly quietly and generate power effortlessly, but there are once in a generation kinds of skaters that take this ability to a different level.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    You've never been around a skater who has that factor, then. If you ever just saw Kwan (or Chan) just stroke around the rink without any music playing, there's a quietness to it versus most other skaters when they are accelerating. I can't even describe it. It's an innate skill that has to be cultivated by a knowledgable coach. As I said, anyone can learn to stroke nicely and fairly quietly and generate power effortlessly, but there are once in a generation kinds of skaters that take this ability to a different level.
    Thanks! I will pay more attention to the sound next time.

  11. #31
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    There was some reports during GPF 2010 that during Men's practice, at one point everyone one stopped except Patrick and Koz. The whole rink was silenced to listen to the wonderful sounds their blades made.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    So Patrick will skate next at Japan Nationals Gala. Nice to be invited; it shows his skating is appreciated in Japan. I'm sure he'll enjoy watching the competitions too, especially Men. I hope to be able to celebrate Christmas with Japan Nationals on stream.

    This season has been too full of drama for Patrick. Last season he started out with raised techical level but debuting 4t tripped him mentally. First competition this season, 2 falls were excusable though they were really freaky, a random fall and the clicking of blades into the 4T resulting in the fall after the jump was completed. Then he was sick for TEB and carried it into the GPF, in addition to the tremendous distraction and stress from the manufactured controversy.

    Will he add a new quad at the Nationals? If he had skated the GPF clean, I would guess he wil, as that would mirror last year's progress that he's modeling this year's on. There is a month between the GPF and the Nationals so there is plenty of time for him to get well and catch up with his training, which suffered from a short busy summer. So it depends much on his progress and confidence on the new quad and the program. Will he pull both off, skating a clean program with an additional quad, like he did last year? I am pulling for him to do well, with or without the new quad. We deserve a flawless Patrick Chan's Aranjuez for eternity.

    Last year's Nationals was the final pratice for Worlds, a dress rehearsal in his mind and it was mightly successful. This year he will go to the 4CC before Worlds since it's held in the US, not in Asia like last year. More practice and more prize money, why not? (He was probably counting on it, and the Japan Gala, when he donated half his GPF's prize. )

    Patrick has a habit of delivering what he says. So I guess we can wait to hear from him again. Sometimes I wish he wouldn't have to announce his plan before he skates but there's no escaping it as a headliner Skate Canada counts on for promotion of the events it sponsors.

    Go Patrick!
    I am so glad he got invited! Thought the Japanese fans might not like him because he is a major competitor to their male single skators.

    Yeah, it's very unlikely he will add another quad to his program. As I said before, he doesn't need to - as long as he can repeat his performance in last worlds, he is guaranteed another world title. His 4T is not as stable as it was in last season, I think it is because he is paying more attention to the artistic side of the program and doesn't practice the quad enough. By the time of 4CC and worlds, it should be restored to the level of last year.

    Good Luck Patrick!

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    You've never been around a skater who has that factor, then. If you ever just saw Kwan (or Chan) just stroke around the rink without any music playing, there's a quietness to it versus most other skaters when they are accelerating. I can't even describe it. It's an innate skill that has to be cultivated by a knowledgable coach. As I said, anyone can learn to stroke nicely and fairly quietly and generate power effortlessly, but there are once in a generation kinds of skaters that take this ability to a different level.
    And all of those skaters, including Patrick, were taught figures. He probably didn't know that's what they were called, but he was taught this by Mr. Colson. It's a huge factor in Patrick's success now. There is no way he would rack up the marks for SS, TR, etc, along with elements like footwork, without having had such a strong foundation in figures. In fact it's been said that there was so much emphasis placed on figures and stroking and edges and skating skills that other coaches used to question when he would be taught to jump. Now we all see the wisdom. Learning to jump is a skill that comes with age, muscle, practise. The run of the blade and stroking and edges cannot be learned so quickly, and are best taught from the very beginning. Have a good foundation, then add the tricks. His addition of the quad is a great example. He needed the quad to get into medal contention. But its all the rest of the things in between that helps him stay there, even when he doesn't have his best day at the rink.

    I think this translates to other skating disciplines as well, like dance. It's easy to focus on the tricks, but the real quality is when there is fabulous skating skill and edges and line combined with tricks. To me, this is why D/W and V/M are so far ahead of others, and why IMHO V/M have an edge. They had a tremendous foundation from very early years. It's the basics honed over many years together.

  14. #34
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    There's a quality that I started noticing in the mid-90s (when I started attending live competitions and spending more time on the ice with higher level skaters) that I referred to as "the ice melting away beneath their blades" to describe a quiet, effortless acceleration. I've seen it from novices or nonelite seniors who don't necessarily have the jumps to be competitive -- but better skaters than others at their level. The most extreme example I witnessed was probably Grishuk and Platov.

    It's been a few years since I've seen Chan skate live (only at Liberty, so very early in the season with brand-new programs) at which point he looked very good but not exceptional. On TV more recently, though, it looks to me that he gets more ice coverage/deeper edges with each stroke and more agility to turn and move his whole body whichever way he chooses than the other top singles skaters. I'm not sure I can think of another example of a skater who had exactly those areas of extreme excellence. Some might get a bit more nuance out of the music, but not the same combination of effortless ease, complexity, and power.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing787 View Post
    I am so glad he got invited! Thought the Japanese fans might not like him because he is a major competitor to their male single skators.
    A Japanese fan commented on his JO youtube video that many Japanese turned into his fans when they watched him live at the JO. Guess real skating fans appreciate great skating though in this forum all we hear about endlessly was about the falls.

    Yeah, it's very unlikely he will add another quad to his program. As I said before, he doesn't need to - as long as he can repeat his performance in last worlds, he is guaranteed another world title. His 4T is not as stable as it was in last season, I think it is because he is paying more attention to the artistic side of the program and doesn't practice the quad enough. By the time of 4CC and worlds, it should be restored to the level of last year.

    Good Luck Patrick!
    I'm not so certain he wouldn't. With all the drama this season, the track is a little off but he knows best where he really is at technically. He has been performing with compromised conditions so far this season but the Nationals is something special for him. I think generally the home crowd makes him nervous at SC because it's his first event and he is trying out super difficult new programs so there is pressure to not disappoint the fans. But at the Nationals, there is no competitive pressure (except his own pretence that it were Worlds), and the program is by then familiar. The supportive home crowd is energizing so the conditions are optimal for him to perform his best, earning a deserved love fest. He can then take that winning feeling with him to 4CC and Worlds. I think if he did very well without a new quad at the Nationals, he might add it at 4CC as a run up to Worlds. We will see.

    Stay happy, healthy, and focused, Patrick!

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    It's been a few years since I've seen Chan skate live (only at Liberty, so very early in the season with brand-new programs) at which point he looked very good but not exceptional. On TV more recently, though, it looks to me that he gets more ice coverage/deeper edges with each stroke and more agility to turn and move his whole body whichever way he chooses than the other top singles skaters. I'm not sure I can think of another example of a skater who had exactly those areas of extreme excellence. Some might get a bit more nuance out of the music, but not the same combination of effortless ease, complexity, and power.
    I've had the pleasure of watching Patrick in every season since he was a Juvenile and one of the things I noticed when he was 14 and 15 and skating at the senior level at Thornhill was that his speed, flow and power were not out of place in a field that included Jeff Buttle and Takeshi Honda. At that point he wasn't the fastest guy on the ice, but he could definitely hold his own, even though he was the youngest person out there.

    It was at Skate Canada in 2008 that I saw first him display the kind of effortless speed, flow and command of the ice that I hadn't seen since Plushenko and Yagudin at the 2002 GPF. At that point I knew that his PCS mark was going to take a huge leap and that even when he skated poorly, that his PCS marks would still be in the upper ranges. I also knew that people who merely watched on TV were going to scream that he was over-marked.

    When I'm watching Patrick at home on my bigscreen, I have to use a motion enhancer because he moves so fast across the ice that my picture breaks up. Patrick is the only skater I have ever had to turn that function on for.

  17. #37
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    I find this year his speed is noticeable even on screen. He just sweeps over the whole ice surface, blurring the background. Even the camera backs off a bit.

  18. #38
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    Skatefiguring - I think this is one of the many reasons why I am so 'wowed' by Chan, you really can tell he is in a league of his on even 'just' on tv. gkelly .. I love your description of Chan "effortless ease, power, and complexity." Dragonlady - wow! All these years of watching him live and watching, then, the growth and development - too cool.

  19. #39
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    Another thing I appreciate about Patrick's skating is what he never does - bending over while skating. Most skaters do that, even top guys like Oda, and most obviously lanky skaters such as Jason Brown. It particularly bugs me to see a talented skater, in the midst of a nicely choreographed program, bending over doing cross cuts for a good distance, usually to build up speed for a jump.

    Patrick just integrates all the tricks seemlessly with the choreography, skating gracefully at all times.....except for some fluke falls!

  20. #40
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    I think we should have a Nobunari Oda and Jason Brown safe house thread.

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