World Team Trophy 2013 Ladies | Page 5 | Golden Skate

World Team Trophy 2013 Ladies

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Osmond's second 3T got <<. I don't know, to me Gracie and Kaetlyn did the same mistake, falling on the second part of the combo. Is it so important that one rotated the combo and the other one didn't as long as both finished on their butt? Looking at the points, it seems so, but IMO, it shouldn't. I hate that a fall is not as severe as an <<. I think a fall on element should make the element not count at all (and if a skater falls on the second part of the combo, give him the credit for the landed jump and apply -GOE). Keep the "<<" penalty, there should be a big difference between landing a rotated jump and failing to rotate it even if there is no fall. But rotated or not, a fall on a jump should be the most severe penalty IMO
It's stupid that Gracie got more points than Kaetlyn for the completely missed 3T IMO
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
I am really confused as to how Gracie can score 5 points ahead of Kaetlyn, when essentially they made the same error. Very odd scoring...also Ashley with a fall and a two-footer...and placed ahead of Mao who fell on a tougher jump?? The scoring is definitely bizarre.

Isn't the IJS just peachy? :biggrin:

I do agree that a fall should carry a more severe penalty...

As for Ashley being ahead of Mao, that's fair. Ashley did the 3F-3T and < the 3T but still landed the combo. Her loop was clean and technically she didn't fall on the 2A. It was < but she didn't fall; hand went down and she stepped out of it but there was no butt-to-ice contact so it's not a fall. I will say I think the judges were very harsh with Ashley's combo. Yes it was < but she didn't have a wild or sloppy looking landing...so I'm wondering why were there so many -3s? Four of the nine judges gave her -3. -1 or -2 is understandable but giving something a -3 is basically equating it to a fall which seems overly harsh seeing as how she stayed upright.

Mao's 3A was downgraded to a 2A, plus she fell on it. Like Ashley, her loop was clean but her 3F-2L was. I think it's the difference in the jump combo that made the difference here.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
LADIES SHORT PROGRAM - RESULT & VIDEOS

1. Adelina SOTNIKOVA (RUS) - 67.13 Short Program
2. Akiko SUZUKI (JPN) - 66.56 Short Program
3. Gracie GOLD (USA) - 60.98 Short Program, 2nd Copy
4. Ashley WAGNER (USA) - 59.77 Short Program
5. Mao ASADA (JPN) - 59.39 Short Program
6. Mae Berenice MEITE (FRA) - 58.51 Short Program
7. Kaetlyn OSMOND (CAN) - 55.18 Short Program
8. Kexin ZHANG (CHN) - 54.97 Short Program
9. Zijun LI (CHN) - 53.16 Short Program
10. Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA (RUS) - 49.94 Short Program
11. Lenaelle GILLERON-GORRY (FRA) - 49.41
12. Gabrielle DALEMAN (CAN) - 48.82 Short Program

Thank you Mao88!
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Akiko get a huge home advantage for her easiest 3t-2t combo. She should be 2nd but no way the difference between her and Sotnikova should be less than a point.


Great work, Adelya! She skated big, jumps were Yuna-wise if not higher. She is probably the best spinner in the world field now. Terrific beats on music in steps and standing ovation followed. :clap:
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Osmond as expected falls in SP, another 2 falls in LP probable, she panics as she senses she isn't competing in Canada and will not get inflated scores. deserving PCS for Osmond who should never come close to Gracie in PCS, Osmond having higher PCS to Gracie is Wrong !!!

notice a trend in Osmond, she ONLY skates close to clean on Home Ice.

poor Liza, she wont make up for it even with a stellar LP
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
She looked really concerned, she was rubbing her arm like it was hurting her? I don't know. I'm probably just being an overly worried fan.
There was an accident between Ashley and Li at warm-up. They crashed, Li fell, Ashley help her to stand up, but Wagner got hurt too at the crash. After that Li could actually performed her combo well and more than once. That fall in SP was rather surprising. Probably the lack of experience.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Osmond as expected falls in SP, another 2 falls in LP probable, she panics as she senses she isn't competing in Canada and will not get inflated scores. deserving PCS for Osmond who should never come close to Gracie in PCS, Osmond having higher PCS to Gracie is Wrong !!!

notice a trend in Osmond, she ONLY skates close to clean on Home Ice.

Right, because the Nebelhorn which she won over Sotnikova was on home ice? :rolleye:

And, I don't see why her falling in the SP was "as expected". She's only fallen twice this season in the SP... 4CC and this competition. Otherwise she's had decent shorts, close to clean at Nebelhorn, and clean at Skate Canada and Worlds.

Also, half the field fell -- including two falls from Tuktamysheva's disastrous program. Why the nasty comments about Osmond? I could say, "As expected, Liza has a terrible SP" (and her results this season actually would be "as expected"), and I don't think you would appreciate that, would you? :sarcasm:
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Right, because the Nebelhorn which she won over Sotnikova was on home ice? :rolleye:

And, I don't see why her falling in the SP was "as expected". She's only fallen once this season on her 3-3 in the SP... THIS competition.

Why the nasty comments about Osmond? I could say, "As expected Liza has a terrible SP" (and her results this season actually would be "as expected"), and I don't think you would appreciate that, would you? :sarcasm:

the start of Osmond's inflated scores was at Skate Canada not at Nebelhorn
Worlds was on home ice so expected she would be inflated, WTT is in Japan and like a wake up call like 4CC
for some reason Osmond doesn't do well skating outside Canada, thos probably affects her mentality as she will not get inflated scoring.
she is a non factor for Sochi btw

I would have her PCS a point lower than Gracies in 27+'s
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Came back from World Trophy. Adelina and Akiko were best. I'm so bummed about Mao and I'm feeling very low about her prospects now.

They had these zambonies that shaved the surface ice, after which a coat of water was applied to it. I'd never seen that.

The warm-up of the second group was pretty intense. IMO, Elizaveta was hoarding the ice too much. She kept on using the center of the rink to not do a real jump but simulate a jump and then spin on the ice. I'm sure she was just doing what she wanted to, but when you have even one skater doing something like that, the other skaters have to practice around it and it makes the rink that much more smaller. Not good.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Wow, Suzuki just scored higher than her personal best at 4CC which actually had a 3-3 in there. With it she would have scored above 70. She also scored higher PCS than Mao. I hope she does well in the FS, as this would still put her as a solid contender for next season after a terrible Worlds.
 

happyskate6

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Osmond as expected falls in SP, another 2 falls in LP probable, she panics as she senses she isn't competing in Canada and will not get inflated scores. deserving PCS for Osmond who should never come close to Gracie in PCS, Osmond having higher PCS to Gracie is Wrong !!!

notice a trend in Osmond, she ONLY skates close to clean on Home Ice.

poor Liza, she wont make up for it even with a stellar LP

Clearly you just have it out for Osmond alone, which makes me respect all of your comments less.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
the start of Osmond's inflated scores was at Skate Canada not at Nebelhorn
Worlds was on home ice so expected she would be inflated, WTT is in Japan and like a wake up call like 4CC
for some reason Osmond doesn't do well skating outside Canada, thos probably affects her mentality as she will not get inflated scoring.
she is a non factor for Sochi btw I would have her PCS a point lower than Gracies in 27+'s

Um, you think maybe her high PCS scores could have been attributed to her having clean skates at Skate Canada and Worlds? :laugh: If anything, skating at home is more pressure for Osmond because of the expectations. She had a poor FS at Nationals, so it's not like a home ice guarantees her a clean skate.

You're making some sweeping statement like she doesn't do well skating outside Canada based on one and a half competitions (4CC and WTT's SP). :rolleye:

I'm aware that Osmond is likely a non-factor in Sochi, but Elizaveta - who had the lowest TES scores of the whole field - is also non-factor for Sochi too... BTW. Both are more likely to do well in 2018, although arguably Eliza has been on the senior circuit longer and should be doing a lot better.
 

Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
There was an accident between Ashley and Li at warm-up. They crashed, Li fell, Ashley help her to stand up, but Wagner got hurt too at the crash. After that Li could actually performed her combo well and more than once. That fall in SP was rather surprising. Probably the lack of experience.

I was wondering if there had been a crash because Ashley looked so spooked, so early in the warm-up. Thanks for clarifying!!

I will say I think the judges were very harsh with Ashley's combo. Yes it was < but she didn't have a wild or sloppy looking landing...so I'm wondering why were there so many -3s? Four of the nine judges gave her -3. -1 or -2 is understandable but giving something a -3 is basically equating it to a fall which seems overly harsh seeing as how she stayed upright.

I agree that that's too harsh! The two-foot was pretty visible, so there had to be negative GOE on top of the <, but -3 *is* equating it to a fall, and that's ridiculous. What she pulled out was a lot more gutsy and took a lot more strength and power than a triple-double combo, and because of the downgrade and negative GOE, the element is suddenly worth next to nothing. I'm all for skaters upping their difficulty and going for the difficult combo's, but IJS has been discouraging them for years.
Anyway, practice makes perfect. I'm pretty hopeful that if she gets more mileage on this combo, she'll manage to get it clean.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Um, you think maybe her high PCS scores could have been attributed to her having clean skates at Skate Canada and Worlds? :laugh: If anything, skating at home is more pressure for Osmond because of the expectations. She had a poor FS at Nationals, so it's not like a home ice guarantees her a clean skate.

I'm aware that Osmond is likely a non-factor in Sochi, but Elizaveta - who had the lowest TES scores of the whole field - is also non-factor for Sochi too... BTW. Both are more likely to do well in 2018, although arguably Eliza has been on the senior circuit longer and should be doing a lot better.

be fair, none of the new girls have much of a shot at Sochi its all about the Veterans....
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
be fair, none of the new girls have much of a shot at Sochi its all about the Veterans....

Okay, so then why are you being all snarky about Osmond being a non-factor in Sochi -- especially when she's newer than Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva. Really, Gold is the only one with comparable experience.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Osmond's second 3T got <<. I don't know, to me Gracie and Kaetlyn did the same mistake, falling on the second part of the combo. Is it so important that one rotated the combo and the other one didn't as long as both finished on their butt? Looking at the points, it seems so, but IMO, it shouldn't. I hate that a fall is not as severe as an <<. I think a fall on element should make the element not count at all (and if a skater falls on the second part of the combo, give him the credit for the landed jump and apply -GOE). Keep the "<<" penalty, there should be a big difference between landing a rotated jump and failing to rotate it even if there is no fall. But rotated or not, a fall on a jump should be the most severe penalty IMO
It's stupid that Gracie got more points than Kaetlyn for the completely missed 3T IMO

To be fair, Gracie did score Level 4 elements on everything (and she does have good spins) while Kaetlyn got level 3s on two of the spins. That's a difference 1.2 points.

In addition on those elements, Gracie snagged 3.63 points vs. 2.28 for Kaetlyn, a difference of 1.35 points = 2.55 points.

And they did get EXACTLY the same deduction for the fall = 2.10 off the GOE. Even if Kaetlyn's jump was fully rotated, Gracie would still have gotten more points because her 3Z-3T is worth 10.10 and Kaetlyn's 3T-3T is worth 8.20. a 3Z-3T is 1.9 points more than a 3T-3T. I mean ieven if you take the -3T out of the equation, Gracie still did a 3Z vs a 3T for Kaetlyn. So I'm not sure it's a wuz-robbed situation that Gracie got more points.

So let's say that Kaetlyn's combo was fully rotated. Her score would be 57.98. Still lower than 60.98.

It seems that everyone's scores at WTT are inflated, so I'm not sure if we should be so outraged that Gracie got a 60...I mean Akiko, as much as I love her, did get 66+ for doing a 3T-2T combo/3L/2A. (even though it was clean.
 

happyskate6

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
To be fair, Gracie did score Level 4 elements on everything (and she does have good spins) while Kaetlyn got level 3s on two of the spins. That's a difference 1.2 points.

In addition on those elements, Gracie snagged 3.63 points vs. 2.28 for Kaetlyn, a difference of 1.35 points = 2.55 points.

And they did get EXACTLY the same deduction for the fall = 2.10 off the GOE. Even if Kaetlyn's jump was fully rotated, Gracie would still have gotten more points because her 3Z-3T is worth 10.10 and Kaetlyn's 3T-3T is worth 8.20. a 3Z-3T is 1.9 points more than a 3T-3T. I mean ieven if you take the -3T out of the equation, Gracie still did a 3Z vs a 3T for Kaetlyn. So I'm not sure it's a wuz-robbed situation that Gracie got more points.

So let's say that Kaetlyn's combo was fully rotated. Her score would be 57.98. Still lower than 60.98.

It seems that everyone's scores at WTT are inflated, so I'm not sure if we should be so outraged that Gracie got a 60...I mean Akiko, as much as I love her, did get 66+ for doing a 3T-2T combo/3L/2A. (even though it was clean.

I agree that Akiko's score was inflated - probably by about 3 points.
But I am curious: Looking at Kaetlyn's prior skates (SC, Neb, and Worlds), she scored level 4s on all the spins in her SP. Here they were no different - same number of revolutions (Bielman a little slow, but rotated). I agree they could be faster, but why would she be given level 4s for the same execution everywhere but here? (not that it really matters in the big picture!)
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Gracie is overscored-she shouldn't have been scored higher than her Worlds SP score IMO.

No. Gracie got credit for a fully rotated 3z+3t at WTT and the rest of her technical elements were good. She interpreted the music and projected a lot more than she did at Worlds and her PCS scores went up because of that.

At Worlds, she stepped out of the 3z+3t and the 3t was called UR. Then she messed up one of her spins.
 
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