Jason Brown

Mrs. P · Nov 6, 2019

noskates said:
Kori just about raised Jason from a baby. At some point you lose your objectivity. He was literally a member of her family, driving her daughter to school, etc. I think Jason needed a taskmaster rather than another "mother" to move him forward. Curiously I wonder what Raf would have done with him. Just curious. But the current coaching team is just what Jason needed, obviously.

Tracy is a good balance. She definitely has that nurturing nature but it's clear she knows how to make him work as well judging by the comments he's made about how difficult her stroking sessions were. Not to mention she is clearly Jason's biggest advocate at TCC. You can tell how much she loves his skating and overall presence.

I'm glad we don't even have to think about Raf. I don't think it would've been a great fit anyway.

eaglehelang · Nov 7, 2019

Mrs. P said:
I just felt like there was far too much gatekeeping by the Olympic season. Like Kori kept changing the layout last minute based on the warm-up. She also was not sold on the Hamilton idea and while Jason wanted it as a FS, he had to settle for it as a SP. And it was obvious that he did not love the FS and trying to convince himself to like it (though I personally adored it, especially the step sequence). I think you could sense Jason's frustration that he had little say in what he was doing most times.

As I mentioned up thread, he's really focused now. I think the fact he's coming in with two programs he pretty much signed off on himself, the overall quality improvement from TCC and just the confidence from SKAM medal will all make a difference in NHK.

But yeah I'm still gonna burn some candles.

There pros and cons in having a long time coach. Jason has been with Kori since he was 5? As Jason mentioned in interviews, Kori is like his 2nd mum. While at TCC, he came to them as an adult and is treated as such.

Even I myself am perplexed at times at how hard Jason is trying to please his coaches, esp Brian. He's 24, with his experience, I was expecting Jason to lay out his goals, songs he has in mind, etc. Basically telling his coaches what he wants & his coaches help him achieve it.

I suppose I'm used to the type A personalities like Yuzuru who at 17 knew what he wants to achieve & programs he wanted to do, colour scheme of his costume, etc. Or Javier who decides his programs.

noskates · Nov 7, 2019

I think it's Jason's personality to want to please - adult or not. His sense of humility, his abject friendliness to fans, just his very nature is not too confrontive or stubborn. And let's face it - Brian Orser is formidable. Not just with his own career but his successful coaching career and Jason probably perceived it was a hard sell to bring him to TCC - especially at his age and the work it was going to take to reformulate how he jumps and get out of some not-so-good habits. (well, that was definitely a run-on sentence) Brian knew there were only a few years of competition left in Jason and he was already behind the frontrunners without a consistent quad. It's much easier to start with a younger skater and mold them to your process.

I only mentioned Raf, Mrs. P, as a stern taskmaster - which is what I thought Jason needed after Kori. Brian and Tracy are a perfect fit. After you read Adam Rippon's book you do realize, however, that Raf is a caring teddy bear in his own way but doesn't show it often.

p.s. I think Hanyu's costumes are ridiculous and sometimes it's hard for me to take him seriously with all that frippery. Maybe Brian shouldn't let him "do" his costumes. Just a little aside there.....

Mrs. P · Nov 7, 2019

eaglehelang said:
There pros and cons in having a long time coach. Jason has been with Kori since he was 5? As Jason mentioned in interviews, Kori is like his 2nd mum. While at TCC, he came to them as an adult and is treated as such.

Even I myself am perplexed at times at how hard Jason is trying to please his coaches, esp Brian. He's 24, with his experience, I was expecting Jason to lay out his goals, songs he has in mind, etc. Basically telling his coaches what he wants & his coaches help him achieve it.

I suppose I'm used to the type A personalities like Yuzuru who at 17 knew what he wants to achieve & programs he wanted to do, colour scheme of his costume, etc. Or Javier who decides his programs.

Noskates is right that Jason has been a people-pleasing type, but flat out, he would not be at TCC if not for Tracy (and apparently several other TCC coaches who also loved having him at the rink, per his interviews, but Tracy the most) advocating for him. When you know this, you feel this inherent pressure to prove that you deserve to be there. So I think it's more that.

Let's keep in mind that Javier had his growing pains at TCC too, namely breaking his somewhat lax training habits, which has been mentioned several times by the TCC coaches in interviews. It's a huge adjustment to switch the environment and to build a rapport with new coaches. Not everyone is Yuzuru -- who is a once-in-a-lifetime kind of skater and person.

To have the freedom to determine what you want can be kind of intimidating if you really haven't had that before. I think though that shouldn't be misunderstood as a lack of maturity. Jason's always been interally motivated and had a good work ethic. But at TCC everything is different--he's living on his own (even in Coloraldo he was living in the Olympic Training Center) and with coaches who don't know him that well. It's an adjustment no matter how self-assured and mature you are.

I think the first year, Jason wanted to kind of just be open to whatever they wanted and figure out how it works before he stepped in. It seems this season he is more self-assured in expressing what he wants. If you read my SKAM report, you'll be encouraged to know that Jason basically chose the music for both his programs this season.

el henry · Nov 7, 2019

I have to say I disagree that Jason needed a "stern taskmaster" :scratch2:

I'm not sure where the narrative comes from that Kori was somehow coddling Jason and not pushing him? I don't see that at all

Jason is incredibly self-driven and harder on himself than any coach could ever be. Frank Carroll said he essentially opened the rink and closed the rink. Jason expressed his frustrations in the IG Live interview with Meryl about how long and how hard he has been working for the quad. Jason may have needed more technical help than Kori was able to give or get from other coaches, but the "second family" atmosphere had zip to do with his Oly year issues, IMHO.

And not every coach is right for every skater, or right for every skater at every stage in their development. I can't imagine Raf as a good fit for Jason. No reflection on either the skater or the coach, just on the "fit". Now that Jason's at TCC, I can't imagine Jason training with just Brian and not Tracy.

I think he's in the right place now, and I think we all agree on that:agree:

Bookseller · Nov 7, 2019

Mrs. P said:
Tracy is a good balance. She definitely has that nurturing nature but it's clear she knows how to make him work as well judging by the comments he's made about how difficult her stroking sessions were. Not to mention she is clearly Jason's biggest advocate at TCC. You can tell how much she loves his skating and overall presence.

I'm glad we don't even have to think about Raf. I don't think it would've been a great fit anyway.

Agreed! Raf and Jason would not have been a good fit. At all! Now Raf might be good for Shoma. Tracy and Brian are a great fit and they were clearly Jason's first choice.

Bookseller · Nov 7, 2019

noskates said:
I think it's Jason's personality to want to please - adult or not. His sense of humility, his abject friendliness to fans, just his very nature is not too confrontive or stubborn. And let's face it - Brian Orser is formidable. Not just with his own career but his successful coaching career and Jason probably perceived it was a hard sell to bring him to TCC - especially at his age and the work it was going to take to reformulate how he jumps and get out of some not-so-good habits. (well, that was definitely a run-on sentence) Brian knew there were only a few years of competition left in Jason and he was already behind the frontrunners without a consistent quad. It's much easier to start with a younger skater and mold them to your process.

I only mentioned Raf, Mrs. P, as a stern taskmaster - which is what I thought Jason needed after Kori. Brian and Tracy are a perfect fit. After you read Adam Rippon's book you do realize, however, that Raf is a caring teddy bear in his own way but doesn't show it often.

p.s. I think Hanyu's costumes are ridiculous and sometimes it's hard for me to take him seriously with all that frippery. Maybe Brian shouldn't let him "do" his costumes. Just a little aside there.....

Yuzuru is at a place in his career where he calls the shots, period. He picks the music, the choreo, the costume. Brian doesn't give him costume advice.

Mrs. P · Nov 7, 2019

Bookseller said:
Agreed! Raf and Jason would not have been a good fit. At all! Now Raf might be good for Shoma. Tracy and Brian are a great fit and they were clearly Jason's first choice.

There's also that dynamic of training with one or both of Adam and Nathan. I'm not sure how that would have worked.

Also I think the mum dynamic only contributed in that Kori had a lot of say in what Jason could and could not do, which proved good early in Jason's career and he was still working on the harder jumps and trying to stay competitive but proved downright disastrous in the Olympic season. I think Jason trusted in Kori quite a bit -- and understandably so -- so he went with a lot of the decision making -- i.e. the last-minute layout changes -- even though he wasn't wild about them. (And we also know he said that he was getting a lot of advice from far too many people, USFS officials, his coaching team, etc...etc... so that likely made him desire some say in his own skating even more)

Jason doesn't need somebody to tell him to do stuff -- he works hard without anyone telling him to do so. As I said, I think he needed somebody to tell him it was okay to try stuff and to assert himself as a decision maker for his own skating. It's clear that is what Jason wanted but even then it's still an adjustment when you're actually given that autonomy.

Anyway, regarding the Yuzuru costume discourse, I like his costumes this season -- seeing them live was cool -- I love the flower pattern on his Origin FS costumes.

ribbit · Nov 8, 2019

eaglehelang said:
Even I myself am perplexed at times at how hard Jason is trying to please his coaches, esp Brian. He's 24, with his experience, I was expecting Jason to lay out his goals, songs he has in mind, etc. Basically telling his coaches what he wants & his coaches help him achieve it.

noskates said:
I think it's Jason's personality to want to please - adult or not. His sense of humility, his abject friendliness to fans, just his very nature is not too confrontive or stubborn. And let's face it - Brian Orser is formidable. Not just with his own career but his successful coaching career and Jason probably perceived it was a hard sell to bring him to TCC - especially at his age and the work it was going to take to reformulate how he jumps and get out of some not-so-good habits. (well, that was definitely a run-on sentence) Brian knew there were only a few years of competition left in Jason and he was already behind the frontrunners without a consistent quad. It's much easier to start with a younger skater and mold them to your process.

Mrs. P said:
Noskates is right that Jason has been a people-pleasing type, but flat out, he would not be at TCC if not for Tracy (and apparently several other TCC coaches who also loved having him at the rink, per his interviews, but Tracy the most) advocating for him. When you know this, you feel this inherent pressure to prove that you deserve to be there. So I think it's more that.

Just to add a little to what noskates and Mrs. P have said, Brian has said openly in interviews that he initially didn't want to take Jason on, and that he told Tracy that if she wanted him at TCC, she would have to coach him. (To his credit, he has also said in those and many other interviews that Jason has made himself an essential member of the TCC community and has warmly praised both his skating and his personality and character.) I imagine that it would be difficult enough knowing who did and didn't want you in your training group, and wanting both to justify the good opinion and reward the confidence of the person who went out on a limb to support you and to demonstrate your worth to and earn the good opinion of the person who was initially skeptical of you. And then to know that that information isn't private, but is openly and publicly discussed...I love Brian, but if I were in Jason's shoes I would rather he hadn't shared that information. I imagine that Jason would feel some pressure to prove to the world not only that Brian underestimated him in the first place, but that his subsequent change of opinion was justified.

That said, it's obvious that Jason and Brian have arrived at a good relationship and that Jason is thriving in an excellent and supportive training environment, so all's well that ends well.

Mrs. P · Nov 8, 2019

ribbit said:
Just to add a little to what noskates and Mrs. P have said, Brian has said openly in interviews that he initially didn't want to take Jason on, and that he told Tracy that if she wanted him at TCC, she would have to coach him. (To his credit, he has also said in those and many other interviews that Jason has made himself an essential member of the TCC community and has warmly praised both his skating and his personality and character.) I imagine that it would be difficult enough knowing who did and didn't want you in your training group, and wanting both to justify the good opinion and reward the confidence of the person who went out on a limb to support you and to demonstrate your worth to and earn the good opinion of the person who was initially skeptical of you. And then to know that that information isn't private, but is openly and publicly discussed...I love Brian, but if I were in Jason's shoes I would rather he hadn't shared that information. I imagine that Jason would feel some pressure to prove to the world not only that Brian underestimated him in the first place, but that his subsequent change of opinion was justified.

That said, it's obvious that Jason and Brian have arrived at a good relationship and that Jason is thriving in an excellent and supportive training environment, so all's well that ends well.

It seems Brian, for whatever reason, has no qualms about being in the open about his coaching situations with other skaters (namely Javi's bad training habits when he first came to TCC and the delicate matter of coaching both Javi and Yuzu). So it's not just a thing he's doing with Jason. I agree it can be a bit much to know your coach is saying these things publicly, but on the other hand, at least there's no question or secrets regarding the situation. I think it would be worse if Brian pretended to be on board when he wasn't at first -- at least Jason could work on building rapport. And Jason's just as open about his end of the situation so yeah, I think overall I'm not too horrified about this aspect of things.

But yeah, thankfully it ended well. And yeah, NHK needs to come quick when we've spent all this time talking about something that happened more than a year ago. :laugh:

eaglehelang · Nov 8, 2019

ribbit said:
Just to add a little to what noskates and Mrs. P have said, Brian has said openly in interviews that he initially didn't want to take Jason on, and that he told Tracy that if she wanted him at TCC, she would have to coach him. (To his credit, he has also said in those and many other interviews that Jason has made himself an essential member of the TCC community and has warmly praised both his skating and his personality and character.) I imagine that it would be difficult enough knowing who did and didn't want you in your training group, and wanting both to justify the good opinion and reward the confidence of the person who went out on a limb to support you and to demonstrate your worth to and earn the good opinion of the person who was initially skeptical of you. And then to know that that information isn't private, but is openly and publicly discussed...I love Brian, but if I were in Jason's shoes I would rather he hadn't shared that information. I imagine that Jason would feel some pressure to prove to the world not only that Brian underestimated him in the first place, but that his subsequent change of opinion was justified.

That said, it's obvious that Jason and Brian have arrived at a good relationship and that Jason is thriving in an excellent and supportive training environment, so all's well that ends well.

Yes, I know that Brian Orser did not want to take Jason on at 1st. I've read the interviews, from both Orser & Jason.

What I mean is it extends down to the smallest things. Orser said in an interview that Jason asked when he should take off his jacket during the 6 min warm up. Orser looked surprised & said 'Are you warm? Ok, then take off your jacket"
I was surprised too and thought - Like that also need to ask the coach? As experienced athlete, at 24, Jason should already have his own ways/rituals on such things.
Orser said Jason is the perfect student, he does everything his coaches tell him to.

_________________________________________
On other aspects, it's more on stuff Jason does not seem to know as an experienced competitor like :
1) Focusing before his program. Jason said he felt it was rude not to greet everybody, be nice. Till Orser told to stay focused till after he finished his program.
I expected focusing to be a standard procedure among athletes, even the junior athletes of my country know this & we are a small SEA country.

2) When Jason was drawn to skate last, he messaged Tracy & Brian to ask what should he do. I think this was at 2019 WC.
Again I expected Jason already knew what to do in such circumstances.
If Jason is Cha Jun Hwan's age then yeah I can understand him asking.

It then leads me to wonder how Jason has been learning & training all these years and still be able to compete at top level.

Mrs. P · Nov 8, 2019

^ I think you need to consider some context here. Like literally all his routines and habits were ingrained with his longtime coaching team. He didn’t have to ask before cause he had a routine and comfort level with Kori.

When he’s asking these things it’s not because he doesn’t know what to do necessarily, but he wants to know ThEIR approach and best practices. He’s trying to figure out what kind of support he’ll get from them. A lot of it rapport building too. When you’re in a new job and dealing with new bosses you’re trying to figure them out.

I’d just chalk up the jacket thing to pure nerves of being unexpectedly second after the SP. God knows I’ve done and asked dumb things when I’m nervous or in a unfamiliar position.?

And lastly, he’s a friendly guy and maybe was a unfocused. As someone who is outgoing and extroverted, I can understand why he’s that way. People who are energetic and extroverted tend to draw energy from other people. People sometimes didn’t take me seriously cause I was so outgoing. And sometkmes the extroversion can be a distraction.

When push comes to shove, when it came to skating, he is a hard worker, ambitious and driven and that’s why he’s been successful in spite of his shortcomings (which is something you can say of literally of a lot of skaters). The friendliness masks that, but honestly he always comes to competitions well trained. You hear of skaters who don’t like or skimp on run-throughs - Jason is not one of those people. if you actually watch him at a practice, he always does full-out runthoughs, he doesn’t mark jumps a lot. Notice Brian and Tracy never comment on that. He generally knows how to train and to put in the work.

But again all that is last season and it seems he’s settled into a routine with them and with himself, judging by what I saw at SKAM.

noskates · Nov 8, 2019

First of all I never meant to imply that Jason wasn't a hard worker and needed a "taskmaster" which was probably a poor choice of words. My sense was that Kori worked him hard but she also mothered him. You can't work with someone all those years, watch them grow up from a little kid with a lot of energy to a young man, include them in your family as if he's your own, yada yada, and be totally objective about them. Also, let's face it, Kori's coaching experience was not necessarily with elite skaters. I believe Jason was her first. Absolutely nothing against her, but Jason perhaps relied on her a bit too much and less on his own strengths and abilities other than to work hard.

In any case it's all a moot point right now. He's in a good place, his overall skating skills have improved, he's dedicated, he's surrounded by a coaching team that appreciates him and sees his capabilities (and possibilities) and now he just needs to lay down a kicka** program at NHK and beyond. As for Brian - perhaps a filter would be appropriate although it's hard to criticize someone who has been so successful. I like that he's candid.

Mrs. P · Nov 8, 2019

Yeah I don't mind the candidness even if it drags Jason a bit. I think it's good everything is out in the open.

Impromptu · Nov 8, 2019

I think Brian's initial reluctance to have Jason at TCC was less about Jason, and more about a matter of space/resources: at that time, Fernandez had not retired, Gogolev and Daleman were still at TCC, and Medvedva & Jin were planning to move there. The issue was space and coaching availability for any new skaters, not Jason in particular. Tracy convinced him to squeeze Jason in, which is a tribute to Jason... she might not have been able to convince Brian if it had been a different skater.

How I've always interpreted Brian's candidness is not, "I didn't want Jason here, but Tracy convinced me," but "I didn't think we had room for another skater, but Tracy convinced me that Jason would be a valuable addition and we would be crazy not to make room for him."

el henry · Nov 8, 2019

Jason's IG interview has been posted on the "Forza Jason Brown" Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/100012162960449/videos/807623762986382/

Thanks @MGStyle and friends :clap:

ribbit · Nov 8, 2019

Impromptu said:
I think Brian's initial reluctance to have Jason at TCC was less about Jason, and more about a matter of space/resources: at that time, Fernandez had not retired, Gogolev and Daleman were still at TCC, and Medvedva & Jin were planning to move there. The issue was space and coaching availability for any new skaters, not Jason in particular. Tracy convinced him to squeeze Jason in, which is a tribute to Jason... she might not have been able to convince Brian if it had been a different skater.

How I've always interpreted Brian's candidness is not, "I didn't want Jason here, but Tracy convinced me," but "I didn't think we had room for another skater, but Tracy convinced me that Jason would be a valuable addition and we would be crazy not to make room for him."

That's a nice and a generous interpretation, and I like it very much!

Zaki · Nov 9, 2019

el henry said:
Jason's IG interview has been posted on the "Forza Jason Brown" Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/100012162960449/videos/807623762986382/

Thanks @MGStyle and friends

I uploaded the video on Youtube too.

It took me a bit to do it but I'm happy that now all of you can enjoy it. ^^
Here is the link: https://youtu.be/c_04oYIee1c

Bookseller · Nov 9, 2019

It occurred to me that if you take Jason's SKAM score and interposed it into the other 3 GPs completed so far, he would have gotten two silver medals and a bronze. It makes NHK even more interesting and potentially nervewracking. Jason skates his long program on my birthday. Hoping for a great birthday present! He gave me the best one ever with that 96+ last year at IDF!

MGstyle · Nov 12, 2019

As suspected, Jason enters Golden Spin just in case.

Jason Brown

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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

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noskates

Mrs. P

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el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Bookseller

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Mrs. P

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eaglehelang

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el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

ribbit

Zaki

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Crawling around on the ice after chestnuts

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