Men FS JGP Mexico Cup 2013 | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Men FS JGP Mexico Cup 2013

Snoopy15

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Hino's TES is great but PCS still really low. If he could improve in that area he could be competitive on the senior level in Japan once Takahashi, Oda, and Kozuka retire which will likely be after this season. I wonder if he landed a quad, 74 is pretty high TES especially because he usually doesn't get much GOE on his spins or jumps other than 3a.

I'm certain I saw somewhere that Kozuka mentioned this season wouldn't be his last.
 

Snoopy15

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I can definitely see an artistic improvement in trying to do different types of programs from Chen, as well as a physical improvement in that his jumps have more height (especially the combinations). However, I wish he'd hold his landings. Also, I feel like his programs this season are more difficult and complex in choreography, but don't necessarily suit him as well as his programs last year, particularly the free program.

Absolutely ridiculous that Hino got full credit on his Quad Toe attempt. Evidently cheated just by looking at it, and even a downgrade if the judging panel were strict enough. The transitions in that program are minimal and his skating is something that just falls to the wayside as I watch. Sure, he's got good jumps, but he's really tentative going into them and has really scratchy landings. I want to appreciate his skating, but I just can't.

Impressive skates from Samohin. Is this the first time Israel has gotten an international medal?
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Chen is milking points by backloading his jumps
good strategy and preventing another injury, he's still very young

and nice a medal for Israel :)
 

katymay

Medalist
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
If you are Nathan, what are you going to do? His first half showed great stamina and flow, but his weakness IS his jumping ability. So, what do you do? Backload the program and maximize the points. Even though he has backloaded his program, it is not as if he is standing around, flapping his arms in the first half-his first half DOES take stamina, and he is a very well conditioned athlete. However, I can't help thinking that this may be as good as it will get for him. His jumps are tiny, and I can't see him ever being able to master the 3a or a quad. He is a beautiful and gifted skater, but I do not think he can ever be competitive in todays' figure skating environment.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
He did 3a last season and I'm sure he will do it again once he recovers from his injuries. And as for the jumps being tiny, he's 4'9" so that's to be expected. When he grows, we'll have a better idea of what to expect from him in the future. Bear in mind that at this age, Jason Brown had 2 triples, and Joshua Farris, who in general has been ahead of the pack in terms of his technical abilities, was not yet doing 3a either. And they were the top 2 finishers at JW this past season.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
If you are Nathan, what are you going to do? His first half showed great stamina and flow, but his weakness IS his jumping ability. So, what do you do? Backload the program and maximize the points. Even though he has backloaded his program, it is not as if he is standing around, flapping his arms in the first half-his first half DOES take stamina, and he is a very well conditioned athlete. However, I can't help thinking that this may be as good as it will get for him. His jumps are tiny, and I can't see him ever being able to master the 3a or a quad. He is a beautiful and gifted skater, but I do not think he can ever be competitive in todays' figure skating environment.

what ? your assessment is too early for a 14 year old boy who is less than 5 feet tall
you'll hvae to wait for a few more years to have a better picture of his jumps/ full physical abilities 4 or 5 years from now
 

skatetalent

Spectator
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
He did 3a last season and I'm sure he will do it again once he recovers from his injuries. And as for the jumps being tiny, he's 4'9" so that's to be expected. When he grows, we'll have a better idea of what to expect from him in the future. Bear in mind that at this age, Jason Brown had 2 triples, and Joshua Farris, who in general has been ahead of the pack in terms of his technical abilities, was not yet doing 3a either. And they were the top 2 finishers at JW this past season.

He did clean solo however he would not deserve to get huge Goe and massive PcS
Because of he is cute and he is young
His solo is not well balance and there is no artistic factor
Specially for the second half nothing else than jump and jump from corners to corners
Cannot deny his talent, gifted, and well trained.
He had very little speed, jump tiny no elegant landing, how he can get all huge bonus points for these
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
How are Chen's scores and marks any different from the tiny 13 year old Russian girls scoring so well on the JGP? Chen's jumps are small, so are Sotskova's, Medeeva's, and Radionova's, because guess what they are all small people. That doesn't mean they are not talented and deserve to be marked down for their jumps which are otherwise cleanly landed and nicely executed. I'm confused?
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
How are Chen's scores and marks any different from the tiny 13 year old Russian girls scoring so well on the JGP? Chen's jumps are small, so are Sotskova's, Medeeva's, and Radionova's, because guess what they are all small people. That doesn't mean they are not talented and deserve to be marked down for their jumps which are otherwise cleanly landed and nicely executed. I'm confused?

A difference with the Russian girls the technical content. With the Triple lutz-triple toes or loops combos!
 

draqq

FigureSkatingPhenom
Record Breaker
Joined
May 10, 2010
Chen received high 6s and low 7s for his artistry, which is correct. The fluidity of his blade between turns as well as his sheer variety of moves show off his skating skills nicely, though he doesn't have the power or speed yet due to its size. When the music switches to Summertime, he has the control and movement to interpret it well with softer arms and leg lines. Again, he could improve dramatically, but low 7s are appropriate.

Where Chen gets positive GOEs is in the fast, usually centered spins. His footwork goes from turn to turn very quickly, to the point that I'm not sure whether he will be able to keep it up as he grows. I would give him +2s on his footwork since the edges aren't that deep yet.

His jumps are cleanly landed, have a high rate of rotation, and are high for his height. He's fairly confident going into jumps and you don't see him hesitate much at all. I agree that some of this jumps are a bit overmarked, but I would generally give them +1s on average.

My criticism, though, is that he needs to emphasize his moves more. I almost wish his SP was his LP and his LP was his SP. He moves well beyond his years in the SP to Vivaldi than Chattanooga Choo Choo, where he really looks like a junior kid.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
A difference with the Russian girls the technical content. With the Triple lutz-triple toes or loops combos!

True. To be honest, though, it's easier for girls to do 3-3s when they are tiny and prepubescant because they just rotate really quickly, and as for guys and 3a, quads, etc. it actually helps if you are bigger and more mature because your center of gravity is higher and you have the muscle strength to jump high enough to land those jumps. So the situation is a bit different though I understand the point you make.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Impressive skates from Samohin. Is this the first time Israel has gotten an international medal?
No, but AFAIK it is the first medal at an ISU event for a singles skater representing Israel since Michael Shmerkin in the mid 1990s. Israeli ice dancers have medalled in ISU events in the past decade (C/S and the Zaretskis) and several Israeli skaters have medalled at senior Bs. I don't know how much of a link with Israel Samohin has (ISU bio does say he was born in Tel-Aviv) but it's nice for him to have the opportunity to compete - this looks to have been his first international event.

Re Chen, I think he is a huge talent and a joy to watch, but backloaded programs are no better IMO than front-loaded ones. Programs should be balanced. Maybe the ISU needs to figure out a better way to encourage element distribution rather than the stacking of second half jump elements.
 

lcd

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
I thought the backloading was interesting from a strategic standpoint. Also impressive he could pull it off at altitude (which I believe Mexico City is at). But from a balanced program standpoint, I definitely lost my awareness that this was a competitive program that was being structured like an "exercise" - partly because of the back end loading. Like watching a series of vaults in gymnastics.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Nathan's home town is Salt Lake City and he trains at Lake Arrowhead. That's why the Mexico City altitude didn't affect him.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I thought the backloading was interesting from a strategic standpoint. Also impressive he could pull it off at altitude (which I believe Mexico City is at). But from a balanced program standpoint, I definitely lost my awareness that this was a competitive program that was being structured like an "exercise" - partly because of the back end loading. Like watching a series of vaults in gymnastics.

It's far more interesting to look at on a protocol sheet than to watch!!

Even if he does train at altitude what was there to challenge him in the first two minutes?
 
Top