2013 Skate America Ladies Free Program | Page 26 | Golden Skate

2013 Skate America Ladies Free Program

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
^ OK, I will change my tune. Here is my new plan, in my role as Mao's secret advisor. :)

But first... To me, what makes Mao the Einstein of figure skating is not how many triple jumps she does. It is the quality of her movement across the ice. I am sorry to see her compromise the aspect of her skating that makes it brilliant, merely to up the jump count.

So here is what she should do. Set aside the first fifteen seconds for a triple Axel. Stroke up to speed, here we go, do or die. If she makes it, yay, she's got a 9 or 10 point lead over the other ladies right off the bat. If she misses, that's still 6 points or so in the bag, and no harm done to the rest of the program PCS-wise.

Now start the program. Melt our hearts, stir our souls, be the Mao that only you can be. Use the jumps to punctuate the choreography, not as a laundry list to check off. Give 'em passion, give 'em wow, leave 'em shouting "Mao, Mao, Mao!" :yes:
 

koatcue

Medalist
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Country
Russia
I read that interview by Rukavitsin. He said that even 2 jumps were URed by Mao. As for my opinion, I think she is great:) I absolutely liked her skating no matter what
 

bsfan

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Everybody has their favorites and nothing's wrong with that as you wrote.

But underrotation is not about tastes or preferences.

THIS.

One can always zoom in and play slow motion as long as the vidoe is available.

And where are the quotes from Russian coaches mentioned earlier? Can someone provide the link?
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
THIS.

One can always zoom in and play slow motion as long as the vidoe is available.

And where are the quotes from Russian coaches mentioned earlier? Can someone provide the link?

What is the matter with these Russian coaches? They are so rude. It reminds me of Brian Orser going on Korean television saying that Miki Ando's jumps were under-rotated while Yuna's weren't.

When a coach accuses a rival skater's jumps as under-rotations to the media, it just makes them look catty and undignified, and not in control of their coaching situation.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
What is the matter with these Russian coaches? They are so rude. It reminds me of Brian Orser going on Korean television saying that Miki Ando's jumps were under-rotated while Yuna's weren't.

When a coach accuses a rival skater's jumps as under-rotations to the media, it just makes them look catty and undignified, and not in control of their coaching situation.

Because it is easier to pick on other skaters instead of working on the weaknesses of their skaters. Classless. But I will take the translation and the sources with a grain of salt because very often people read what they want to read.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Because it is easier to pick on other skaters instead of working on the weaknesses of their skaters. Classless. But I will take the translation and the sources with a grain of salt because very often people read what they want to read.
:agree:;)
 

enzet

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 13, 2006
Of course underrotations and even some edge calls are about preferences!

People sometimes simply choose to ignore underrotations of their favorite, while excessively scrutinizing those of their favorite's rival or a skater they don't like.
It's not like the calls are always 100% clear either. From certain angles the URs or edges are very difficult to see.
Even the technical specialists who have the slo-mo and all the necessary equipment often make wrong calls.

If you are so obsessed with underrotations, why don't you mention for example Ashley Wagner's credited 3-3s that were IMHO quite clearly underrotated on the slo-mo, especially in the SP. (Looked perfectly fine from one angle but from another one it was pretty obvious).
Or is it just that Ashley doesn't bother you so much and you chose to focus only on Mao?

Btw, I'm sure that even in Ashley's case you would never reach 100% agreement whether the combo should have been marked as UR or not.
I can already see people posting super super slo-mo vid's and screen captures with with colorful graphics added to show the angles, some arguing it was only the toe-pick and not the actual landing, others that the landing was fine but it was prerotated, yadda yadda :rolleye:

Do you really want to go into this again?
Personally, I'm sick of these discussions as I think there is so much more to enjoy about both these girl's performances than forever analyzing their slow motion videos.

I might think that Ashley's combo was underrotated, but it was so exciting to see her actually landing it that I couldn't really care less.
The judges gave her the benefit of doubt this time and I'm perfectly ok with that.

I'm not saying that URs or wrong edges shouldn't matter at all, and I can understand that for some people it might be a huge issue.
What I cannot understand, however, is when some of these would-be skating purists only seem to be offended by one particular skater, while others can keep on underrotating and flutzing/liping (called or not) without them ever taking notice.
 

bsfan

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
What is the matter with these Russian coaches? They are so rude. It reminds me of Brian Orser going on Korean television saying that Miki Ando's jumps were under-rotated while Yuna's weren't.

When a coach accuses a rival skater's jumps as under-rotations to the media, it just makes them look catty and undignified, and not in control of their coaching situation.

This thread started to criticize the russian coaches only because someone said in an interview from somewhere that those coaches said something. As an outsider, I'd like to see the actual words, acutal quote, or something translated by honest, reliable person who knows russian well enough not to misinterprete it.
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
What is the matter with these Russian coaches? They are so rude. It reminds me of Brian Orser going on Korean television saying that Miki Ando's jumps were under-rotated while Yuna's weren't.

When a coach accuses a rival skater's jumps as under-rotations to the media, it just makes them look catty and undignified, and not in control of their coaching situation.

ITA. The job of a coach is to evaluate their own skaters, not others.
 

szidon

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
This thread started to criticize the russian coaches only because someone said in an interview from somewhere that those coaches said something. As an outsider, I'd like to see the actual words, acutal quote, or something translated by honest, reliable person who knows russian well enough not to misinterprete it.

Hope so. (url: Евгений Рукавицын: с нашим вечным акцентом на прыжках надо бороться)

I read that interview by Rukavitsin. He said that even 2 jumps were URed by Mao. As for my opinion, I think she is great:) I absolutely liked her skating no matter what

He said "Асада – просто недокруты (смеется)."
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I am consistently amused by the aftermath of competitions after (predictable) controversial calls and system wide over marking (national interest) than the competition themselves. To enable TPTB to go even more bat crazy with justification and all this non sense about 'momentum' building based on over marking is just hilarious and often too absurd not to laugh. Guess what, Mao's next 2 competitions is in Japan, then 1 in Russia Hmmm... I simply CAN NOT wait for more magic potion effect by the time of NHK!!! Maybe we will see 135 with Four triples Mao. 3A, 3/3, 2A3T still not necessary ;) That beat her incredible 2010 WC FS... oh really?! We might as well get more rule changed and it all over and done with. Why not just create more reward for hypothetical maximum 'efforts' and see even more increase values for step sequences and 3loops. Why not just make 3loop and 3A mandatory?! Oh why not just fix it already!!!

It seems the tech panel list does include Shin Amano, but since when did he get demoted (punished) to ASSISTANT technical caller? Does that mean he can get his calls over turned? I'd be curious if there are records of calls over turned on these protocol spreadsheets.

In a way, it is hard not to sympathise for Mao fans and their desperate attempt to protect her reputation by hog the boards. Imagine years of waiting for something semi decent outside her own country. MaoKakaPao!! It explain the passive aggressive mob tactic these past few pages of the Skate America thread. Anyone who dares to question her mark and her prone to UR (regardless of expertise level, non affiliation, from multiple sources and languages of the international press circle) is suddenly branded a hater and being called biased as some sort of vindication. Uhh... hello? The problem is still there?! It doesn't just miraculously go away when you attempt censorship. To continue to do so can make Mao looks even worse. Hush critics through name calling is entirely ridiculous and silly. Biases exist everywhere, == we all same, and please look up the word hypocrite?

As far as I can see, no one hate Mao, no one think she shouldn't be the winner at this competition, but many do think the marks are over scored/out of control, and calls have been ridiculously lenient. So just chillax, take it easy. Consider Four triples Mao herself isn't so happy with her own performance, so why are the defenders going bat crazy trying to hush all the comments with her 'effort' argument? Feed backs are important, good or bad, it is how one learn to improve.

For the record, I praised her SP before (when the music track fit), but dislike her Swan lake for its COP program construct, interpretation and performance. The foot sequence is an exercise of good technical design and skating skills but were at complete odds with the rest of the program and theme, that practically heckle the judges for marks and stood out to an imbalanced program. Hardly cohesive performance or design, nor are all performed with the same degree of energy and artistic effort. Mao is one of those transparent skater (her best quality but greatest weaknesses) that goes: I hit 3A, I am happy, then rest of the performance usually goes okay. If she didn't hit the 3A, the rest goes a bit crap and a battle to finish like her FS here. To put it simply, her FS was not a good performance that justified the mark. Her mark shouldn't be anywhere ear 130 Olympic Joannie Level or even her previous 130+ level, and some of her PCS marks are highly questionable consider what she actually did ON THE DAY. A bunch of 9.75 and 9.5 for PCS. Oh really?! So others have max ceiling of 10, Mao need to have a maximum ceiling of 15 now?

My first impression of Rach 2 was that it not that different in her Swan Lake in program construct. A very expensive piece of over priced premium steak with no seasoning and undercooked with a blow torch. Once again, the team is hoping that the prestige of the music and cultural legitimacy can compensate for any inadequacy of artistry/creativity of the program.. so imagine me ROTFLMAO when hearing the British lady commentator for Eurosport come up with practically exactly the same feedback and feelings with what I felt about her Swan Lake program last year. Opinion validated by the 6 time British national champion, not bad. It seems German commentators were underwhelmed by the performance too, so are the Russians, and some Americans like Phil, except Wagner ofcourse who happen to share the same sport agency as Mao, whos knows fully well where the GPF is taking place this year. Hey who knows her nice comments may just increase her +3 PCS points at the GPF. :laugh: Interesting interesting....
 

CarneAsada

Medalist
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
I am consistently amused by the aftermath of competitions after (predictable) controversial calls and system wide over marking (national interest) than the competition themselves. To enable TPTB to go even more bat crazy with justification and all this non sense about 'momentum' building based on over marking is just hilarious and often too absurd not to laugh. Guess what, Mao's next 2 competitions is in Japan, then 1 in Russia Hmmm... I simply CAN NOT wait for more magic potion effect by the time of NHK!!! Maybe we will see 135 with Four triples Mao. 3A, 3/3, 2A3T still not necessary ;) That beat her incredible 2010 WC FS... oh really?! We might as well get more rule changed and it all over and done with. Why not just create more reward for hypothetical maximum 'efforts' and see even more increase values for step sequences and 3loops. Why not just make 3loop and 3A mandatory?! Oh why not just fix it already!!!

It seems the tech panel list does include Shin Amano, but since when did he get demoted (punished) to ASSISTANT technical caller? Does that mean he can get his calls over turned? I'd be curious if there are records of calls over turned on these protocol spreadsheets.

In a way, it is hard not to sympathise for Mao fans and their desperate attempt to protect her reputation by hog the boards. Imagine years of waiting for something semi decent outside her own country. MaoKakaPao!! It explain the passive aggressive mob tactic these past few pages of the Skate America thread. Anyone who dares to question her mark and her prone to UR (regardless of expertise level, non affiliation, from multiple sources and languages of the international press circle) is suddenly branded a hater and being called biased as some sort of vindication. Uhh... hello? The problem is still there?! It doesn't just miraculously go away when you attempt censorship. To continue to do so can make Mao looks even worse. Hush critics through name calling is entirely ridiculous and silly. Biases exist everywhere, == we all same, and please look up the word hypocrite?

As far as I can see, no one hate Mao, no one think she shouldn't be the winner at this competition, but many do think the marks are over scored/out of control, and calls have been ridiculously lenient. So just chillax, take it easy. Consider Four triples Mao herself isn't so happy with her own performance, so why are the defenders going bat crazy trying to hush all the comments with her 'effort' argument? Feed backs are important, good or bad, it is how one learn to improve.

For the record, I praised her SP before (when the music track fit), but dislike her Swan lake for its COP program construct, interpretation and performance. The foot sequence is an exercise of good technical design and skating skills but were at complete odds with the rest of the program and theme, that practically heckle the judges for marks and stood out to an imbalanced program. Hardly cohesive performance or design, nor are all performed with the same degree of energy and artistic effort. Mao is one of those transparent skater (her best quality but greatest weaknesses) that goes: I hit 3A, I am happy, then rest of the performance usually goes okay. If she didn't hit the 3A, the rest goes a bit crap and a battle to finish like her FS here. To put it simply, her FS was not a good performance that justified the mark. Her mark shouldn't be anywhere ear 130 Olympic Joannie Level or even her previous 130+ level, and some of her PCS marks are highly questionable consider what she actually did ON THE DAY. A bunch of 9.75 and 9.5 for PCS. Oh really?! So others have max ceiling of 10, Mao need to have a maximum ceiling of 15 now?

My first impression of Rach 2 was that it not that different in her Swan Lake in program construct. A very expensive piece of over priced premium steak with no seasoning and undercooked with a blow torch. Once again, the team is hoping that the prestige of the music and cultural legitimacy can compensate for any inadequacy of artistry/creativity of the program.. so imagine me ROTFLMAO when hearing the British lady commentator for Eurosport come up with practically exactly the same feedback and feelings with what I felt about her Swan Lake program last year. Opinion validated by the 6 time British national champion, not bad. It seems German commentators were underwhelmed by the performance too, so are the Russians, and some Americans like Phil, except Wagner ofcourse who happen to share the same sport agency as Mao, whos knows fully well where the GPF is taking place this year. Hey who knows her nice comments may just increase her +3 PCS points at the GPF. :laugh: Interesting interesting....
How furious and long-winded will your post be when Mao scores over 70 PCS on Rach 2 without a 3A? More importantly, when you take your kids out skating, are you going to ban them from attempting 3A or 3Loop or will you have gotten over your bitterness by the time Asada has retired?
 

enzet

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 13, 2006
As far as I can see, no one hate Mao, no one think she shouldn't be the winner at this competition, but many do think the marks are over scored/out of control, and calls have been ridiculously lenient. So just chillax, take it easy. Consider Four triples Mao herself isn't so happy with her own performance, so why are the defenders going bat crazy trying to hush all the comments with her 'effort' argument? Feed backs are important, good or bad, it is how one learn to improve.

:laugh:

Maye you should take some of your own advice first.
If there is anyone who never misses a chance to write something derogatory everytime there is a discussion about Mao it's you.
And the purpose of your efforts is very obvious. I mean to provide the necessary feedback, of course.;)

and please look up the word hypocrite?

I did and it fits you to a T!:yes:
 

CarneAsada

Medalist
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
:laugh:

Maye you should take some of your own advice first.
If there is anyone who never misses a chance to write something derogatory everytime there is a discussion about Mao it's you.
And the purpose of your efforts is very obvious. I mean to provide the necessary feedback, of course.

I did and it fits you to a T!:yes:

I'd like to preemptively ask any dedicated fans of Mao Asada to refrain from posting "ITA", :clap:, :rock:, or :thumbsup:. Clearly you are dealing with an emotionally frail creature with highly delicate sensibilities. If you post any of the above things, then os168 may interpret such actions as censorship or bullying. We'd like to keep this forum welcome to fans and enemies of all skaters.
 

TryMeLater

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
^ OK, I will change my tune. Here is my new plan, in my role as Mao's secret advisor. :)

But first... To me, what makes Mao the Einstein of figure skating is not how many triple jumps she does. It is the quality of her movement across the ice. I am sorry to see her compromise the aspect of her skating that makes it brilliant, merely to up the jump count.

So here is what she should do. Set aside the first fifteen seconds for a triple Axel. Stroke up to speed, here we go, do or die. If she makes it, yay, she's got a 9 or 10 point lead over the other ladies right off the bat. If she misses, that's still 6 points or so in the bag, and no harm done to the rest of the program PCS-wise.

Now start the program. Melt our hearts, stir our souls, be the Mao that only you can be. Use the jumps to punctuate the choreography, not as a laundry list to check off. Give 'em passion, give 'em wow, leave 'em shouting "Mao, Mao, Mao!" :yes:

Midori Ito used to plan her programs like that in the pro competitions.
 

Kelly

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
I read that interview by Rukavitsin. He said that even 2 jumps were URed by Mao. As for my opinion, I think she is great:) I absolutely liked her skating no matter what

That's right with the protocol that Mao underrotated her two double loops in the triple flip combo. I like Mao's skating most now than before because she doesn't just skate light but also powerful at the same time and that is a rare beauty to my eyes.
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Os posts about Mao always amuses me. She rarely likes any programs Mao puts out yet has dedicated long posts/analysis to why she doesn't like the program and why Mao's scores are inflated. And I don't see defenders here labeling anyone as "haters" or any mob tactic? Lol Exaggerating much? There were non-Japanese commentators who liked her programs such as Sandra Bezic and the CBC commentators, but what do I know, this could all be part of a conspiracy to build her momentum! :p And why would anyone want to take Hersh's comments seriously? Someone who was so willing to choose Gold over Wagner after just one good skate. :rolleye:
 

Sara

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Sorry, I have no comments regarding this Mao discussion. Just wanted to tell that I read Ashley will be having new dresses for her programmes. I think her SP dress is very nice, the FS less pretty. I was hoping that she would have a burgundy dress, and now I heard that that's the colour she has chosen for the new dress. Can't wait to see it!
 

Peach

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 30, 2013
Am I the only one that loves her music choice? I love her dress as well. I guess she really wants that gold because her dress is blue ;)
 
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