Random Figure Skating Questions | Page 174 | Golden Skate

Random Figure Skating Questions

Vanshilar

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
If I understand the calculation process correctly, I think the computer converts each judge's GOE to its point value and then averages the values for the whole panel. It's possible it works the other way around. That would be a topic for discussion in the math thread in The Edge.

Actually that's a good point. It's probably using the scale of values of each individual judge's GOE, and then averaging the result. This is because averaging first then converting via scale of values leads to ambiguity if the average GOE were -2.42 for example. For quads it's -1.2 for -1 GOE, -2.4 for -2 GOE, and -4.0 for -3 GOE (not linear), and so the ambiguity is whether or not you linearly interpolate in between or whatever. So I don't know what the rules actually are, but I think it's more likely that it converts each judge's GOE to those values, then averages them.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
when you do a jump sequence of 2 jumps, shouldn't you get 100%BV of the 1st jump and 70%BV of the 2nd?
At the Golden Spin Zagreb, Andrei Lazukin did a 3A+2A+SEQ and the Judges Scores pdf says it has a BV of 9.44 points.
Shouldn't the BV be 8.5 + (70% of 3.3) = 8.5 + 2.31 = 10.81 points?
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
when you do a jump sequence of 2 jumps, shouldn't you get 100%BV of the 1st jump and 70%BV of the 2nd?

No, it's 80% of the sum of the two highest-value jumps in the sequence.
(A sequence can have any number of nonlisted or low-value jumps in it; but there's no point doing more than two high-value ones because only the top two count)
 

concorde

Medalist
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Can skaters tell if they've URed a jump / combo ?

Yes and if they say they can't they're either lying or have a gigantic technique issue.

Seriously, it is so obvious as a feeling.

Not sure if it is so cut and dry based on what I have observed while watching my daughter learn jumps and what she says after.

When a skater is first learning a jump, a lot of time is spent looking at the ice trying to determine whether the jump is fully rotated. I think only after the skater fully rotates a jump for awhile can they then feel whether or not it is jump is fully rotated.
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
what does "nC" and "nS" stand for in the judges scores pdf? "no Camel" and "no Sit"? Must be a description on why it's a "V" (... actually, what word does "V" stand in for?)
Russian Nationals, Men's FS:
(7 - Alexey EROKHOV - FCCoSp2V - nC)
(10 - Makar IGNATOV - CoSp1V - nS)
 

Frenchie

I'm gonna customize the CRAP out of this title!
Medalist
Joined
May 4, 2013
Can skaters tell if they've URed a jump / combo ?
you can often see them staring at the ice right after they land when it was dicey to see "how bad was it?" - they see the trace of the curve their blade just did... (Hint: If the curve looks like a "?", it's not good!) ;)
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
what does "nC" and "nS" stand for in the judges scores pdf? "no Camel" and "no Sit"? Must be a description on why it's a "V" (... actually, what word does "V" stand in for?)
Russian Nationals, Men's FS:
(7 - Alexey EROKHOV - FCCoSp2V - nC)
(10 - Makar IGNATOV - CoSp1V - nS)

Oh wow, I've never seen nC or nS before. It must mean that. I would like to see that come into the IJS as a whole, it would be helpful for the skaters to know which position they missed (though really, they ought to know at the time).

V doesn't stand for a word, it's just a marker.
 

jf12

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
what does "nC" and "nS" stand for in the judges scores pdf? "no Camel" and "no Sit"? Must be a description on why it's a "V" (... actually, what word does "V" stand in for?)
Russian Nationals, Men's FS:
(7 - Alexey EROKHOV - FCCoSp2V - nC)
(10 - Makar IGNATOV - CoSp1V - nS)

I haven’t seen that before, but a combo spin has to have all 3 basic positions (upright, camel, sit) to get marked without a v. It does seem like you are right. But how does the flying camel combo spin not have a camel? 🤔
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I haven’t seen that before, but a combo spin has to have all 3 basic positions (upright, camel, sit) to get marked without a v. It does seem like you are right. But how does the flying camel combo spin not have a camel? 樂

FCCoSp is a combination spin with a flying entry and a change of foot. The first C
means change of foot and the Co means combination.

A flying camel with change of foot would be called FCCSp, with the second C in place of the Co.

There's no such thing as a "flying camel combo spin." A combo spin by definition has more than one position, and a flying camel by definition has only one kind of position (camel) and would not be called a combo spin.
 

jf12

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
FCCoSp is a combination spin with a flying entry and a change of foot. The first C
means change of foot and the Co means combination.

A flying camel with change of foot would be called FCCSp, with the second C in place of the Co.

There's no such thing as a "flying camel combo spin." A combo spin by definition has more than one position, and a flying camel by definition has only one kind of position (camel) and would not be called a combo spin.

Thanks, I definitely got confused.
 

enzofv

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Has anyone ever tried a Lz+Lz combo? Like, rotating to opposing directions? It would be so awesome to see a 3Lz+3Lz combo someday!
 

Basho

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 9, 2017
Would somebody please tell me all the elements involved in a 'clean catch' in pairs skating?
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
http://usfigureskating.org/content/Technical Panel Handbook_Pairs Skating.pdf

The Lady must be caught in the air at the waist by the Man prior to landing and be assisted to a smooth landing on the ice on a backward outside edge on one foot.

There are currently features for higher levels available for

Catching the Lady at the side of the waist without her hand(s)/arm(s)/any part of upper body touching the Man

and

Man’s arms sideways, being straight or almost straight, reaching at least shoulder level after release of the lady

Those features are not required but add to the level if achieved successfully.

Twist Lifts with lacking intended rotation on the landing can be downgraded if they have “missing rotation of ½ revolutions or more”. ... For example, if in a triple twist lift the Man is supporting the majority of the Lady’s weight when her upper body turns only 2.5 revolutions, this will be called as a triple attempt and downgraded to a double twist lift.

http://usfigureskating.org/content/2017-18 SP GOE Guidelines.pdf

Judges' GOE reductions for twist lifts:

Fall -3
Downgraded (sign <<) -2
Lady collapses on partner -2 to -3
Poor height or distance -1 to -3
Lady is not caught in the air before landing -2
Poor take-off (poor speed, serious scratching, no toepick) -1 to -2
Catch assisted by the man’s shoulder -1 to -2
Weak landing (poor speed, bad positions, awkward catch) -1 to -2
Lady lands on two feet -2
Lady is not caught at the waist -2
Lady touches down with both hands -2
Long preparation -1
Touch down with the free foot -1

Some of those relate to the cleanness of the catch, some don't.
 

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
Would somebody please tell me all the elements involved in a 'clean catch' in pairs skating?

From a spectator's point of view:

A stellar catch: the man catches the lady while she is well/obviously above the ice, holds her momentarily, goes into one foot, and sets her down smoothly.

A "crashy" catch: the woman crashes into the man's chest as she plummets feet-first onto the ice.

A clean catch: something in between. You can't always see that she is off the ice when caught, but can tell she was "set down" because of the smooth exit.

An unusual variation the the "crash" catch (I've only seen this once): the lady tries to get some flow out, pushes against the man, and he falls down. Definitely not "clean".
 

Imagine

Medalist
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Sometimes when watching practices, the skater will do their jumps, but then they just sort of skate around in circles from jump to jump...maybe with some choreo in between. And all the skaters whose music isn’t playing are doing the same thing...just kinda skating around the rink in circles. What’s that all about? Just curious.
 

pearly

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Sometimes when watching practices, the skater will do their jumps, but then they just sort of skate around in circles from jump to jump...maybe with some choreo in between. And all the skaters whose music isn’t playing are doing the same thing...just kinda skating around the rink in circles. What’s that all about? Just curious.

Offical practices at competitions?

Those are really just final practices and the skater and the coach decide what they will do at each one. It's very individual, some skaters will use the entire practice to practice all or just some problematic elements. Some will do parts of their program even when someone else's music is playing. Some skaters will leave the practice early after they've done everything they planned to do. You want to get off the ice feeling good about your elements before you skate in a competition so it's good not to overdo it.

These practices are important to get a feel of the ice and to orientate in the arena. When I still competed the "judges side" of the ice rink was always on the same side as the entrance to the ice. Sometimes you go to a competition and the judges are sitting on the opposite side from the entrance/exit so you need to "turn around" your program to face the other way and that takes a bit of getting used to.
 

freeman21

On the Ice
Joined
May 17, 2017
Never attended a figure skating event, planing to go to the European Championships next week, so here come some probably stupid questions:

1) How early do you have to arrive at the skating rink before the competition actually starts? Whenever I'm attending a football game, I usually arrive at the stadium 30-40 mins earlier. No idea what's "normal" in figure skating.

2) If a certain competition day is longer (for example the 4th day of the Europeans scheduled from 13:40 to about 22:00) is it ok to leave and return to the arena several times? Or do you lose the right to re-enter the arena once you're in?
 

sandraskates

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Never attended a figure skating event, planing to go to the European Championships next week, so here come some probably stupid questions:

1) How early do you have to arrive at the skating rink before the competition actually starts? Whenever I'm attending a football game, I usually arrive at the stadium 30-40 mins earlier. No idea what's "normal" in figure skating.

2) If a certain competition day is longer (for example the 4th day of the Europeans scheduled from 13:40 to about 22:00) is it ok to leave and return to the arena several times? Or do you lose the right to re-enter the arena once you're in?

I've never been to a European Championships but I have been to several US Nationals and Worlds events. Here goes:

1) I also like to arrive 30 - 45 minutes before the competition begins. I like to walk around, look at the souvenir booths, and get a snack before I go to my seat. I like to be in my seat before the warm-up begins (which is also polite to those already seated).

2)With the 4th day being about 9 hours, I'm assuming that is for 2 separate events(?).
If so, I'd think that you'll need a ticket for each event. You'll have to vacate the arena once the first event is complete as someone else may have your seat for the next event.
If you have an all-events pass then it won't matter if you go in and out as you'd just show your pass and go back to your assigned seat.

Have fun!!!
 
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