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Thread: Random Figure Skating Questions

  1. #3511
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    why do toe jumps (lutz, flip) have higher base values than edge jumps (sal, loop)? Having watched the olympics and wc for mens it seems like there are a lot more quad flips and lutz than sals and loops. (of course plenty of quad toes)

  2. #3512
    Rinkside
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    Quote Originally Posted by colton12314 View Post
    why do toe jumps (lutz, flip) have higher base values than edge jumps (sal, loop)? Having watched the olympics and wc for mens it seems like there are a lot more quad flips and lutz than sals and loops. (of course plenty of quad toes)
    It's based on how easy or comparatively difficult it is to do the jump. Generally you learn jumps in the following order: waltz, sal, toe-loop, loop, flip, lutz. For the sal and the toe-loop the skater is essentially jumping from one leg to the other. The loop is over your landing foot the entire time. But the flip and the lutz requires the skater to use their landing foot to pick from the ice into their jump meaning that you have to redistribute your weight (as it's over your non-landing foot in the entry) and rotate and it's harder to cheat by pre-rotating as in the edge jumps.

    At least that's how I understand it. :-)

  3. #3513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
    It's based on how easy or comparatively difficult it is to do the jump. Generally you learn jumps in the following order: waltz, sal, toe-loop, loop, flip, lutz. For the sal and the toe-loop the skater is essentially jumping from one leg to the other. The loop is over your landing foot the entire time. But the flip and the lutz requires the skater to use their landing foot to pick from the ice into their jump meaning that you have to redistribute your weight (as it's over your non-landing foot in the entry) and rotate and it's harder to cheat by pre-rotating as in the edge jumps.

    At least that's how I understand it. :-)
    that makes sense ... thanks!

  4. #3514
    EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA CaroLiza_fan's Avatar
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    OK, it's been a while since a non-technical rules question was asked.

    You know the way that, when you switch country, there is an embargo period. It used to be that you had to wait 18 months after last representing your old country before you were allowed to represent your new country. And then, in 2016, it was reduced to 12 months.

    Because I haven't been following the younger levels over the years, I have only ever seen Senior skaters sitting out through this type of embargo. So, I was just wondering if this rule was also in place for younger levels like Junior or Novice.

    I started wondering this when I was making out Anastasia Galustyan's Fan Fest, because I noticed that apart from one competition in April 2012, her fskate.ru Bio had no results from March 2010 to September 2013. And that competition in April 2012 was her first representing Armenia. So the absence from March 2010 to April 2012 could have been an embargo.

    However, given that there was a big gap after this competition as well, it is just as possible that this was an injury enforced layoff which she attempted to come back from too soon. And that she saw being out of action as a good time to make changes.

    Galustyan only came up on my radar in the 2014-15 season, and her Wikipedia article only starts with the 2013-14 season, so I don't know anything about her before then. (Given her obviously Armenian surname, I am assuming that she already had dual nationality).

    If this was an embargo, were the rules back then the same for the younger levels as they were for the Seniors? And is it the case now?

    Given what the attention spans of children are like, I could imagine that having to undergo an embargo would lead to a lot of younger skaters losing interest and leaving the sport.

    CaroLiza_fan

  5. #3515
    Rinkside sk8r4ever's Avatar
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    Say if your first jump was a single jump and you got -3 GOE then would you have a minus score shown on the technical score board?

  6. #3516
    in Emergency Backup Mode karne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaroLiza_fan View Post
    If this was an embargo, were the rules back then the same for the younger levels as they were for the Seniors? And is it the case now?
    I believe that the rules are the same. She may have been injured, of course, or taking a break.

    Quote Originally Posted by sk8r4ever View Post
    Say if your first jump was a single jump and you got -3 GOE then would you have a minus score shown on the technical score board?
    It should. But they may be merciful and decide not to show it until you'd done something else.

  7. #3517
    EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA CaroLiza_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    I believe that the rules are the same. She may have been injured, of course, or taking a break.
    Thank you. I suspected it was the same, as any of the changes proposed at the 2016 congress (pages 50-52 of this PDF) didn't mention levels. But, I don't know if there was something in the rulebook above the rule that was being changed that specifically said if the bits after it applied to everybody, or just to Seniors.

    The reason I was asking is that I know of a Junior singles skater who has dual nationality and is currently contemplating switching to representing their other passport's country. The thing is, they are getting near the age where they will be forced to switch to Seniors. So, I was curious to know if they would be better off switching countries while still in Juniors.

    So, by the sounds of it, it doesn't make any difference. They'll still have to go through an embargo period.

    Thank you again for your reply.



    CaroLiza_fan

  8. #3518
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    GOEs are prorated to the base value of the element.

    Single jumps have base values ranging from 0.4 (toe loop and salchow) to 1.1 (axel).

    The value of -3 GOE for the one-revolution jumps is -0.3. So if you did a 1T or 1S and earned straight -3 GOE on it, the TES score for that element would be 0.4 - 0.3 = 0.1. The smallest possible score given that only one decimal place is used (before averaging), but it's still a positive score.

    For a single axel, the value of -3 GOE is -0.6, so 1.1 - 0.6 = 0.5 total for the element.

    Now, if you also fell on the element you would get a fall deduction of -1.0, so the overall contribution of the attempt to your total score would be negative. But the fall deduction is subtracted from the total score, not the element score. As far as the TES tracker goes, the value of the element would be tiny but positive, e.g., 0.1 to 0.5.

    Some specifics of the Scale of Values will be changing with the next release this summer, but I don't expect major changes to how lower revolution jumps are scored.

  9. #3519
    Rinkside
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    Silly question but, how common is it for skaters to compete in both Juniors and Seniors within the same season?

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