Pre-Euros Media and introduction of skaters

So this is your reason to prove that sisinka is wrong and IK are really that good (as good as top 3 ECh or Russian Champs?
And actually, Zhulin said this " Our sport is ice dancing, not gymnastics on ice. Come on, let’s add the valnut and the parallel bars! I think some sort of change is needed. If there were some sort of ISU conferences I’d say the pairs to look up to are Virtue/Moir and Weaver/Poje.You get goosebumps when watching their dance. It’s cool! This is what we should inspire for." That's it

So, bramweld, if dance is about technique & edge work now, why don't you prove us that IK have deep egde work & good step sequences or better speed or nicer dance hold? Come on then? Or actually you can't and they do not?

bramweld said:

You confirm my point. I was not the one to call her a hater. You were the one that implied that I did. I did say her (I don't know if I am correct here) comments seemed prejudiced. Now its up to her to balance her approach. And I reiterate there is currently loads of press on many athletes not just I/K. Why are they the only ones being discussed with such fervour? That is and remains my question. Also if sisinka has discussed other pairs similarly in previous threads just add the links here. I have no problems with eating crow if someone can back up their words. .

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A hater thing was to Hanca, not to you. If I wrote it that it looked like a question to you, I am sorry. You wrote many other things, I wrote about it.

Still not catching the point. I am appreciating all skaters for their hard work (partly because I really know how they are feeling). If you would read more carefully - I wrote more than once that long essays about my opinion to I&K are written because you and some others are trying to make a bad person from me because of my opinions, so I explain I am not a bad one who wants to destroy I&K - but it leads to talking more and more about things which I don't count like great things looking at the couple. Other skater's fans are polite enough not to try to destroy everybody who has some technical/presentation/rhythm issues about their favourite couple.

bramweld said:

I just have a problem with so many persons seeming preoccupation to paint them in as worst a light as possible without valid reason. Or at least it baffles me as to why persons need to do this. This in essence is my point. Why create a thread, in fact one of many on different boards, with the sole purpose of pointing out their deficiencies? Why the need to single them out for all this attention and there are so many other equally good if not better teams out there that could be admired? This is where I'm at in a nutshell.

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I also have problems when somebody forced a couple to split (it is not just I&K, but also many other athletes), I don't like this approach. And I never wrote a word about it, and I already wrote that those things shouldn't be discussed at Goldenskate Forum (and I wrote it to you Bramweld, when you already tried to put me to that cathegory). I am not responsible for people who write such things about splitting. You shouldn't be aggressive to me just because you don't like those disrespectful people. I also don't like them, but it doesn't lead me to be disrespectful to you.

TheGothicEme said:

So this is your reason to prove that sisinka is wrong and IK are really that good (as good as top 3 ECh or Russian Champs?
And actually, Zhulin said this " Our sport is ice dancing, not gymnastics on ice. Come on, let’s add the valnut and the parallel bars! I think some sort of change is needed. If there were some sort of ISU conferences I’d say the pairs to look up to are Virtue/Moir and Weaver/Poje.You get goosebumps when watching their dance. It’s cool! This is what we should inspire for." That's it

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Actually I'm not interested in proving her right or wrong. I sort of just move on very quickly where disagreements are concerned or I would like to think so. It was just an opinion. In fact, given I/K consistency issues, making a prediction with respect to them doesn't interest me. In fact I am not one to make predictions I don't think I ever have on any forum. I like I/K when they're on but I also admire other pairs and I'm not adverse to discussing them as well.

bramweld said:

Why can't we just be allowed to like each pair as we'd like? Why this need to throw cold water on them at every opportunity?

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I wrote in every second post that I respect everybody's decision about favourite couple, I wrote it many times. But I also wrote that if those fans starts to put a couple in the Hall of fame in moment when a couple is not reaching the level of this, I don't agree. You are allowed to like anybody and I already wrote it many times.

sisinka said:

Thanks for precise translation, your English is much better than mine, I see it in every your post. As to aggressive notes to my person it is nice to know that not everything was meant how I understood and felt it. Please, could you continue in translating things precisely and prove me that those peaple are not offending me with this kind of words…

Your writing style shows sort of desperation (by hanca)

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that's why I wanted to step in and tell both of you that this had escalated because of that misunderstanding about the toilet break. Hanca wrote this sentence after you had already misunderstood her toilet break for a personal attack about "something toilet", and therefore you were very aggressive towards her. Both were regrettable.

this pile of mud slinging for what it is…
Sisinka's attitude toward the pair is clearly toxic…
It just comes across as vindictive and cruel… (everything by Bramweld)

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I never said anything about Bramweld. Please don't exaggerate things like saying that I said noone has ever said anything negative to you.
Remember when I said that I was glad that Ice Dancing was less political than it once was? A few days later, you said I said "federation support is no longer needed". It's not always black or white.

sisinka said:

I am a person connected to figure skating and music for a long time, but I am also connected to some other things…

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all right then, I shall remain intrigued! :think:

sisinka said:

I wrote in every second post that I respect everybody's decision about favourite couple, I wrote it many times. But I also wrote that if those fans starts to put a couple in the Hall of fame in moment when a couple is not reaching the level of this, I don't agree. You are allowed to like anybody and I already wrote it many times.

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Point taken. I didn't envision myself belabouring this for so long. I think I've even embarrassed myself. Can we call it a truce and move back to our respective corners? :yes:

TheGothicEme said:

And sisinka, could u please give your thought on Cappellini/Lanotte? I love their fd, well, first time saw a Rosina on ice, Anna is so good at portraying and interpreting classical pieces...

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Cappellini & Lanotte – OK, I will say what I think about the couple...technically – Anna improved since they came in 2007, she improved a lot, while in 2007 she was visibly worse technician than Luca, today I would say that Luca is slightly better but the couple matches each other very well. They are skating overall slowly. Looking at skating and gliding only (not speaking about levels now) they look to be sure on the ice, no shacky skating. They have nice lifts performed with easiness. Twizzles are improved since 2007 a lot as well. Except step sequences there are not many close dance holds during dance (which I would like to see in every dance couple). What I would also prefer to see are more deeper Anna and Luca’s knees, it would also help them to have deeper edges and more open arcs during skating like we can see in many Russian couples. They are also not so dynamic couple which is partly an explanation for not having such speed.

Their free program is nice, I took choreo not being difficult but I like nuances in choreo which goes with nuances in music – they are matching music well. Overall I think that they sell their program very well, their skating is positive and light and sometimes funny – and so is the music. I like costuming, I never saw Anna in some wrong costume, she is very stylish on the ice and their costumes goes with programs perfectly.

Personally for me the best dance of this couple is their La Strada free dance performed so well at Worlds 2012.

Vera Bazarova interview (14th of January):

http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/14311.html

Vera tells that after Russian Nationals they were in training camp in Sochi, they spend there even New Year and 7th of January they came to Krasnodar. They had almost two whole free days – 31st of December and 1st of January. They tried to keep good shape. After Nationals they changed the way of preparation – another preparation as to jumps, she jumped less at practise not to loose energy (she also styrted to work with Viktor Kudriavtsev). She wants to feel confident, their main goal is to show two programs without any big mistakes. They didn’t change any elements in programs thinking that it would be a nonsense to change anything just one week before European Championships. They will come to Budapest 15th of January.


Valentin Piseev (13th of January):

http://sochi2014.rsport.ru/sochi2014_figure/20140113/714623382.html

Piseev says that the result of European Championships in ice dance cathegory may influence the final decision about third dance couple at Olympics. The fight for third place is between Sinitsina & Zhiganshin and Riazanova & Tkachenko.

sisinka said:

Elena Ilinykh's article (13th of January):

To Pantene, if it take away from preparation: “On the contrary. I am proud of being the ambassador of beauty, firstly I use these products in life. I understand that hair – it is a daily treatment. Beside, haircut – it is inseparable part of image in figure skating. Secondly, it is interesting and useful for me – I meet new people, I learn to work in front of camera, I learn nuances for making haircut and I take advises of Pantene stylist.“

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For those who didn’t know that Lena is doing Pantene ambassador:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdcJ_40Gxrw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkGd7BjYPLo

Another article with Lena from Glamour Russia – February 2014 (scans are big, you need to save it):
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4j1icz&s=5
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=xy5p5&s=5
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2i92q0p&s=5
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=536xl1&s=5

Sisinka:

I loved reading ur analyze of the dance's and choreographes! I don't care for the hate-crap or anything else people are discussing intensively here, but I'd like to understand what happens on the ice during a performance. And I don't.

For example P/B freelance for my eyes is very lovely and i love the music, but i don't understand how they tell the story. Or Tessa and Scott's fd. Or whoever's. What does the in-between-parts tell us and what does a certain lift tell. Cause many times i get some sense of the choreo, but I can't figure out what some round and round -life tells us (or positions on pirouettes).

If you would like to write open someone's fd, I would really love it!

Thanks sisinka,for sharing your thought. Yes, you're right, CL is rather slow, if they could improve it, they could move up. Just as Elena Ilinykh, Anna Cappellini is so adorable and cute.
And you said that the 3rd slot in ice dance will be decided after ECh, so is there any chance that Sinitsina/Zhigansin will gain their first chance to compete at OG?

supsu said:

For example P/B freelance for my eyes is very lovely and i love the music, but i don't understand how they tell the story.

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I'll leave the analysis of Péchalat/Bourzat's FD to Sisinka, but just to set the idea for the program for those who haven't read Le Petit Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry:
Stanick Jeannette did a really touching FS to it in 2003, you can see the similarity between his and Fabian's costume.

The Little Prince is a poetic tale, with watercolour illustrations by the author, in which a pilot stranded in the desert meets a young prince fallen to Earth from a tiny asteroid. The story is philosophical and includes societal criticism, remarking on the strangeness of the adult world.

Though ostensibly a children's book, The Little Prince makes several profound and idealistic observations about life and human nature. For example, Saint-Exupéry tells of a fox meeting the young prince during his travels on Earth. The story's essence is contained in the lines uttered by the fox to the little prince: On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux. ("One sees clearly only with the heart. What is essential is invisible to the eye.") Other key thematic messages are articulated by the fox, such as: Tu deviens responsable pour toujours de ce que tu as apprivoisé. ("You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.") and C'est le temps que tu as perdu pour ta rose qui fait ta rose si importante. ("It is the time you have lost for your rose that makes your rose so important.")

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(...) The prince tells of his love for a mysterious rose that suddenly began growing on the asteroid's surface some time ago. The prince says he nourished the rose and listened to her when she told him to make a screen or glass globe to protect her from the cold wind. Although the prince fell in love with the rose, he also began to feel that she was taking advantage of him, and he resolved to leave the planet to explore the rest of the universe. Although the rose finally apologized for her vanity, and the two reconciled, she encouraged him to go ahead with his journey and so he traveled onward.

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Nathalie plays the rose.

Le Petit Prince has been translated into more than 250 languages and dialects, as well as braille, and selling over a million copies per year with sales totalling more than 140 million copies worldwide, it has become one of the best-selling books ever published.
It's quite short, and absolutely magical, so whoever hasn't read it, I can only strongly encourage you to do so, you'll be deeply touched. I give you my money-back-guarantee! :agree:
(You can also listen to the audiobook... takes only 1 hour)

One sees clearly only with the heart. What is essential is invisible to the eye.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFegTiclwGE

Short report – Maxim Kovtun talks that he took a photo at the airport where Tchaikovski is somewhere (a statue?) and that his free program is Thaikovski’s first concert, so maybe it is a sign. Nikita says that they skated very well at practise, as to emotions – it was amazing, that they have an enormous energy inside which they protect until the competition and they will do everything to skate on maximum in energy, in beauty and skate clean.
Morozov says that they need “cold head“ (to concentrate) because they are very emotional and skate on 100% - and it is enormous advantage. But because judging system give a things which needs to be required, he thinks they will handle it. He says that if Alena Leonova skates cleanly then she is very emotional, then she gives her energy to audience, we wants her to start program with clean skate (jump), because next elements will be presented successfully – on automatism. Adelina Sotnikova says that after New Year they started to prepare quietly, she wants to show herself and she believes she will be succsussful in it.

TheGothicEme said:

Thanks sisinka,for sharing your thought. Yes, you're right, CL is rather slow, if they could improve it, they could move up. Just as Elena Ilinykh, Anna Cappellini is so adorable and cute.
And you said that the 3rd slot in ice dance will be decided after ECh, so is there any chance that Sinitsina/Zhigansin will gain their first chance to compete at OG?

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Yes, I would like them to stay at least another season (I heard that they plan to finish??). And another competive year means many time and space for improving even more.
I personally prefer to have more “older“ dancers in dancing field, I think that mature people can bring a lot to presentation of dance or story. Tessa and Scott were great at 2010 and still more teenage body than adult body, so it was easier for them to skate such difficult programs, to make such difficult lifts, fast turns..then it is for them today. With adult body everything become more slower and difficult (it is an advantage of Meryl who stayed small and who is very very thin). But I like today’s grow up Tessa and Scott better than in 2010. They kept great technique and they are mature couple now. I feel much more in their presentation and expression today then I did in 2010.

To Sinitsina & Zhiganshin – personally I find them to be better dancers then Riazanova & Tkachenko (in all aspects I can remeber now), so I would wish them to go at the Olympics. Their skating deserves a trip to Sochi. But they are not supported by Federation while Riazanova was always supported by at least Alla Shechovcova. Propaganda and off ice talks are still very strong no matter how judging system looks like. So I suppose that no matter how those couples skate here, Riazanova will finish ahead because of Russian Federation‘s support. I also feel Piseev’s fear a little because it was always normal that better couple from European Championships came to World Championships or Olympics (if there is a duel after Nationals), but now suddenly Piseev says that this result will help only to decide. And yes, Sinitsina & Zhiganshin have a disadvantage of skating in Group 4, not in last two groups. Judges always mark higher last two groups (top 10 couples in statistics are making last two groups), which means that if Sinitsina would be skating in last two groups their points could be about 2 point higher, especially in components. It is a bad habbit from old judging system but it stayed up today. Another thing is that everybody suppose that Riazanova & Tkachenko will finish this season, and they already competed whole Olympic cycle at Euros and Worlds.
We will see in few hours what will happen.

Frenchie said:

I'll leave the analysis of Péchalat/Bourzat's FD to Sisinka, but just to set the idea for the program for those who haven't read Le Petit Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry:
Stanick Jeannette did a really touching FS to it in 2003, you can see the similarity between his and Fabian's costume.

One sees clearly only with the heart. What is essential is invisible to the eye.

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Thanks Frenchie, I also wanted to notice that Stanick’s program and costume similarity (his free program at European Championships 2003 was one of the highlights of that competition).

Pechalat & Bourzat free dance:
Fabian took the idea, Natalie noticed that it is also a story which talks about communication of two people, music is from variety of authors to link the atmosphere. The choreographer is Julien Cottereau, partly choreo was built on translating some situations on the ice – a pantomime maybe.
It is noticed in this interview - http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2013/10/28/63445468

http://www.angelfire.com/hi/littleprince/framechapter8.html
I took a book to use citations: First meeting of Little Prince and a rose – a flower blossom out, first sentence to Prince was: "Ah! I am scarcely awake. I beg that you will excuse me. My petals are still all disarranged . . ." But the little prince could not restrain his admiration: "Oh! How beautiful you are!" "Am I not?" the flower responded, sweetly. "And I was born at the same moment as the sun . . ." …."I think it is time for breakfast," she added an instant later. "If you would have the kindness to think of my needs--" …The little prince could guess easily enough that she was not any too modest--but how moving--and exciting--she was!...
http://www.angelfire.com/hi/littleprince/framechapter9.html
"Goodbye," he said to the flower. …"Of course I love you," the flower said to him. "It is my fault that you have not known it all the while.“ ….A rose said: "Don't linger like this. You have decided to go away. Now go!" For she did not want him to see her crying. She was such a proud flower . . .
During another chapters Little Prince realises how dear is that flower for him. Finally he comes back to his planet to his flower (the author asks: what is happening on his planet). … the author hopes that Little Prince is with her flower again…

Using this video from GPF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isQXepU6N8U
…Natalie makes moves which imitate blossom out, then she stretches herself and touch her hair (from book – “Ah! I am scarcely awake. I beg that you will excuse me. My petals are still all disarranged“), Fabian comes to her and admires her, smell to her, she presents herself, she is a little playful and flirtatious looking at movements (yes, looking at book we know that flower thinks high of herself, she shows how great she is – that is why Prince notices that she is not modest)…
…twizzles…
…and again Natalie shows how beautiful she is especially with movements of her hands (not only to Fabian, but to everybody)…and it works on him, he is still around her, touching her, reaching for her with his hand…
…lift…
… (1:21) there is a gesture when Fabian watches her and wants to get closer and Natalie keeps the distance (Little Prince is fascinated by a flower)…faster music starts…Natalie is very playful, makes movements with easiness, Fabian keeps contact with her and catching her hands…step sequence with many beautiful arm moves (many details to wrist and even fingers position – matching music greatly)…after steps again a very joyful and flirtatious move and Little Prince staying behind her is fascinated…
…another lift…
…slow part (2:14) suddenly something has changed…the flower starts to show her emotions to Little Prince (chapter 9, when the flower admits she loves him)…he touches her face gently and she touches his face gently, they are looking at each other only (not at judges or to the audience)…
…another step sequence and again beautiful details in hands moves…a hug at the end of steps…he is skating away, but she runs to him, doesn’t want him to leave, they are turning in close holds (it shows emotions between Prince and the flower)…
…lift…and he leaves
…last fast part – he came back from the Earth to his planet…she is so happy… I don’t see some certain moments for explanation - the rest of the program is full of joy and happiness that they are together again…and final hug

Lifts are done to music, the last lift is working of my imagination and Natalie’s skirt reminds me a flower around Fabian’s body, but this is such my personal note. Costumes are perfect and Natalie really looks like flower, even with green tights - a stalk of flower.

I really enjoyed reading this a great deal! Thank you! :agree:

supsu said:

Sisinka:
If you would like to write open someone's fd, I would really love it!

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I think that if you have Tango or Latin medley program, then you don't need a story, because you express what is music about like in Ballroom / Latin dances on the floor.

Sometimes skaters use some music from soundtrack, classical music or modern version of classical music and creates their our story (Annissina & Peizerat did with Carmina Burana).

Also Sinitsina & Zhiganshin portrayed their own story inspired by Norma in free dance using modern version of opera Norma by Bellini. And the story is not less interesting then real Norma...

http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/11299.html
In their story Ruslan is a an executioner taking Viki to a execution. But because he fell in love with her, he takes her and they run away. In the beginning of third part Ruslan hides Viki in front of everybody. But at the end.....Viki kills Ruslan, it was her plan from the beginning – to enchant him, force him to save her life and finally leave him.

Again music goes well with story kids came with and their expression in the program is great. There are many moments in choreography where you can read the story and see Vika and Ruslan's characters. The beginning with banded hands, then they escape...beautiful and very emotional love part including step sequence (Vika has beautiful arm movements there)...the beginning of third fast part, Ruslan hides Vika showing in his gestures, they run away from everything and everybody...and surprising final (not so surprising yet, when we already know...)

It looks like that genes for drama and acting are a part of Zhiganshin's family, he looks to continue in his sister's dramatic and inovative style – less funny and less extreme, but more romantic, passionate and dancy (I don't know anybody else who would be able to dance like Ruslan does this season in short dance). And of course he and Vika have much better skating skills, deeper edges etc. then Zhiganshina & Gazsi.

I must say that I am surprised that Vika and Ruslan are sitting in the fourth place after the short, I would put them higher. Even with some shacky moment it was something what we don't see at every competition, ice dancers who can not just skate with great edges but dance perfectly as well…but I still think that no support from the Russian Federation will play a role and put the couple down no matter what they will do on the ice...even in short dance their points were lower (thanks to Group 4 also)...but we will see...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmacfW6jRlY

Russian report - few shots from opening ceremony, Lena and Nikita talks (they always want to give emotions to the audience, Nikita promises free skating on 100%, free program is their favourite), few shots from men practise then.

Adelina Sotnikova - interview from 15th of January:
http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/14331.html
…“I skated today for my joy, I made all my elements, althought there were small sins. “
…“I was a little shaky at double axel, and then on next element – spin I lost a speed a little. All the rest was not bad – with emotions, in good mood. “
…“I was nervous a little, but I managed to concentrate and that is what I am happy for. “
…“It is good to be ahead of Kostner, my main rival, but I can’t put my hands off, I need to go on and skate my free program crazy good.
…“It is better to jump 3+3 toeloops cleanly and get pluses. “
…“ (She lost some weight) I just looked at myself from abeam and I didn’t like what I saw. But I ate in New Year. How it is said – forget everything before New Year and then start a new life.“