That video makes her landing look very suspect though...
Ladies and the triple Axel
- Thread starter gsk8
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That video makes her landing look very suspect though...
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2015
First her axel is beautiful, and high but definitely not 60 to 80 cms high... perhaps in the high 50s? Where did you get your numbers?
Second, as the previous poster mentioned.. this video makes it pretty clear why she got an UR call..the UR is pretty clear in slowmo from this camera angle.
The fact that she is URs her axel (pretty frequently...I think 3 of her 5 attempts in competition have been UR and 2 were called)when it is both high (like Tuks) and covers distance ( like Rika's) means she really needs to work on her rotational position.
As I have mentioned numerous times, Alena is a favorite of mine (and everyone else's
), I hope she improves the rotation position so that she can reach her scoring potential.
It is amazing that she can jump so high, she is obviously very muscular. This type of small but strong body type is also seen in Rika and Sasha. Rika and Alena also share other similar body characteristics .. long arms and large feet for their body size. (I do wonder if this type of shape is best for the axel) It is a little sad that the current demands of figure skating mean that you have to have a very specific body type to succeed. There aren't going to be very many tall skaters in the future.
Second, as the previous poster mentioned.. this video makes it pretty clear why she got an UR call..the UR is pretty clear in slowmo from this camera angle.
The fact that she is URs her axel (pretty frequently...I think 3 of her 5 attempts in competition have been UR and 2 were called)when it is both high (like Tuks) and covers distance ( like Rika's) means she really needs to work on her rotational position.
As I have mentioned numerous times, Alena is a favorite of mine (and everyone else's
), I hope she improves the rotation position so that she can reach her scoring potential. It is amazing that she can jump so high, she is obviously very muscular. This type of small but strong body type is also seen in Rika and Sasha. Rika and Alena also share other similar body characteristics .. long arms and large feet for their body size. (I do wonder if this type of shape is best for the axel) It is a little sad that the current demands of figure skating mean that you have to have a very specific body type to succeed. There aren't going to be very many tall skaters in the future.
It seems that, even if we are watching the same video, we get diametrically opposed evaluations. (No news, the use of the VAR has by no means diminished the controversy in football!
)The frame in which the blade is perpendicular to the direction of the jump is not the landing point: in the next frame the blade lowers further and rotates another 20-30 degree before touching the ice.
In my opinion, the UR call was a BIG mistake by the technical panel.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2019
It seems that, even if we are watching the same video, we get diametrically opposed evaluations. (No news, the use of the VAR has by no means diminished the controversy in football!
The frame in which the blade is perpendicular to the direction of the jump is not the landing point: in the next frame the blade lowers further and rotates another 20-30 degree before touching the ice.
In my opinion, the UR call was a BIG mistake by the technical panel.
I agree with you. And you make a very good point.
When I saw that clip, my first thought was that it's so undeniably clean, while there are users who saw that clip and thought that it's so clearly under.
But then, it kind of shows how sometimes panels probably can be in disagreement about edge calls and underrotations too, and come to weird conclusions in the same event.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
It seems that, even if we are watching the same video, we get diametrically opposed evaluations. (No news, the use of the VAR has by no means diminished the controversy in football!
The frame in which the blade is perpendicular to the direction of the jump is not the landing point: in the next frame the blade lowers further and rotates another 20-30 degree before touching the ice.
In my opinion, the UR call was a BIG mistake by the technical panel.
Totally agree. I hope this extremely harsh call doesn’t get in her head this weekend and she just focuses on her technique and doesn’t worry about the technical calls.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
This wasn't a broadcasting camera, was it the tech camera? My guess it is a photographers professional DSLR with quality optics, for the clip is shot from behind the curved section of the boarding?
Anyway, wish there were frame counters, but since the clip is already slowed down and still uses full frame resolution one can slow down the YT playback even more.
Alyona's left blade leaves the ice at around 9.7 s with hardly any pre-rotation, her right blade lands on the ice at around 23.9 s in a straight line from the point of take off. Where would any UR have taken place?
I guestimated the height by how far her head and torso rise above the boarding in the background, but the camera both pans and zooms out, and Alyona stretches and hunches again. It is a high and probably far jump for a girl and the first triksel I've seen is such a good close up.
It is too late and unnecessary to worry about possible calls now. Skaters do their thing as they have learned it. They trust their trainers and if they OK'd the jump the skater is confident of its value.
A tighter leg wrap will probably come with experience, but perhaps this huge kick is needed because Alyona uses a difficult entry and is already in 'step sequence' modulating her speed and power, like explained by another poster in her own thread?
Anyway, wish there were frame counters, but since the clip is already slowed down and still uses full frame resolution one can slow down the YT playback even more.
Alyona's left blade leaves the ice at around 9.7 s with hardly any pre-rotation, her right blade lands on the ice at around 23.9 s in a straight line from the point of take off. Where would any UR have taken place?
I guestimated the height by how far her head and torso rise above the boarding in the background, but the camera both pans and zooms out, and Alyona stretches and hunches again. It is a high and probably far jump for a girl and the first triksel I've seen is such a good close up.
It is too late and unnecessary to worry about possible calls now. Skaters do their thing as they have learned it. They trust their trainers and if they OK'd the jump the skater is confident of its value.
A tighter leg wrap will probably come with experience, but perhaps this huge kick is needed because Alyona uses a difficult entry and is already in 'step sequence' modulating her speed and power, like explained by another poster in her own thread?
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2014
It makes me wonder if Midori Ito could have had an even better 3A or a quad even. She had incredible jumps but very bad leg wrap
Well, NHK Trophy is supposed to be broadcast in 8K video in Japan, so hopefully we'll get some super high-quality video of Aliona's and Rika's 3As (assuming, of course, that they land some good ones).
Also, I wonder if they'll be using the Ice Scope tech that they had at Worlds--then maybe we'll get some actual measurements of the height and distance they achieve! :agree:
Also, I wonder if they'll be using the Ice Scope tech that they had at Worlds--then maybe we'll get some actual measurements of the height and distance they achieve! :agree:
Currently, I'm expecting Alena to have a higher 3A, but for Rika to jump further. Rika's 3A in the 3A-Eu-3S she posted before went half the width of the rink. I'm curious to see if my assessment is correct.
What stated about axel in the Wikipedia makes some interesting thoughts.
3Ax is lower jump than 2Ax. A skater needs to rotate much faster, thus the momentum has to be distributed with lower vector to make faster rotation, not the higher jump.
I see here why 4Ax is so problematic. One needs to rotate as fast as with 3Ax, if not faster, but on the height of the best 2Ax, if not higher.
3Ax is lower jump than 2Ax. A skater needs to rotate much faster, thus the momentum has to be distributed with lower vector to make faster rotation, not the higher jump.
I see here why 4Ax is so problematic. One needs to rotate as fast as with 3Ax, if not faster, but on the height of the best 2Ax, if not higher.
I do notice that a lot of the Japanese ladies' jumps have incredible distance and power, but not necessarily a lot of height. Kaori's and Wakaba's 2A's are so powerful, but mostly just travel far and not high.
Rika's 3A's from what I remember don't go very high, but have great distance and speed in and out of the jump. Alena's height on the 3A is impressive and looks shockingly effortless for her. Once she figures out the rotational and landing issues, it might just be my personal favorite 3A!
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
The Japanese women generally are of a different build, shorter overall, more shorter of legs compared to trunk, and they don't seem to be very lean. So their center of mass and the length of the 'levers' differs from the more taller, longer limbed and lankier typical European girl's body favoured in athletic figure skating.
More biomechanical analysis on triksels is most needed, for it will benefit all to learn to master this most difficult jump when more data becomes available. But theory is only theory, the practice of learning a triksel, both from the psychological and physical viewpoint is interesting too.
More biomechanical analysis on triksels is most needed, for it will benefit all to learn to master this most difficult jump when more data becomes available. But theory is only theory, the practice of learning a triksel, both from the psychological and physical viewpoint is interesting too.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2019
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2018
Yuhana Yokoi jumped several 3As today in practice, they were underrotated so far. (Yuhana's little sister, a novice skater, has also jumped 3As in local competitions this season)
https://twitter.com/0409_Obi/status/1197388583063052288?s=20
https://twitter.com/0409_Obi/status/1197388583063052288?s=20
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- Apr 14, 2019
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2017
Good! :agree:
Yuhana is a beautiful jumper.
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