2014 JGP Nagoya TV Cup Mens LP

Meoima · Sep 14, 2014

Protocol is up, Boyang got negative GOE for 3A. Shoma got UR call for the 4T in the combo.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/jgpjpn2014/jgpjpn2014_JuniorMen_FS_Scores.pdf

Boyang is a strong jumper but he has the same problem as Shoma. Both these lads don't have good axel, but at least Boyang gets the 3A done while Shoma doesn't.

silverfoxes · Sep 14, 2014

Omg, the height difference between Boyang and Shoma. :rofl:

Wo|flax · Sep 14, 2014

lol belated handshake so cute

UnChosen · Sep 14, 2014

Boyang apparently missed a spin, so his tech score would've been ~90 if he didn't have that mistake.

Wo|flax · Sep 14, 2014

They are pretty close for Shoma lacking a 3A (once again though- not like boyangs is that much better lotsa -2 goe here; shoma would only be 2 points behind with a fall) if he hadn't fallen and rotated that 4T, he could have won.
Quick look at GOE, Shomas jumps being smaller don't make a huge difference cuz of Jins landings.

Interspectator · Sep 14, 2014

Yes, my head understands why Shoma is second, but he did so well, it was AMAZING. In my heart, it's difficult to take.
But Boyang really did a good job. So congrats to all the medalists.
I'm also a bit sad about Denis. He did so well and just missed the podium.

nipman · Sep 14, 2014

I love the 2A-1Lo-3F of Shoma. Hope that one day he will be able to replace the 2A by a 3A.

Wo|flax · Sep 14, 2014

UnChosen said:
Boyang apparently missed a spin, so his tech score would've been ~90 if he didn't have that mistake.

ooh I see it now, I wondered what he was doing at that point in the program

for some reason I though it was weird choreo.

jace93 · Sep 14, 2014

Meoima said:
Shoma got 6.4 PCS higher, which I think should have been 10.4 but well.... As long as he is clean. It's good that he sacrificed that 3A since he knew he might risk a clean performance.

I love Shoma, but it's quite hilarious how he can land a very good quad toe, almost always rotated and with good flow, but it's a miracle if he can rotate a triple axel, let alone land it...

Both skater have lost more or less 3 points in base value (Shoma for the underrotated quad, Boyang for a missed spin) so it actually came down to Shoma's 3 axel fall in the short... if he landed it he would have won... let's hope that in this season he will be able to clean up that jump

Meoima · Sep 14, 2014

WoChair said:
They are pretty close for Shoma lacking a 3A (once again though- not like boyangs is that much better lotsa -2 goe here; shoma would only be 2 points behind with a fall) if he hadn't fallen and rotated that 4T, he could have won.
Quick look at GOE, Shomas jumps being smaller don't make a huge difference cuz of Jins landings.

Once again Boyang got...0.91 points for GOE. Shoma got 7.26 GOE.
It's so obvious Boyang got high BV but his basic and landing are not positive. Shoma, on the other hand, is trying to max out his ability for a more pleasing to the eye performance.

Interspectator · Sep 14, 2014

Meoima said:
Once again Boyang got...0.91 points for GOE. Shoma got 7.26 GOE.
It's so obvious Boyang got high BV but his basic and landing are not positive. Shoma, on the other hand, is trying to max out his ability for a more pleasing to the eye performance.

Would his GOE be even higher if he threw in a few tanos? :biggrin:

unico · Sep 14, 2014

nipman said:
I love the 2A-1Lo-3F of Shoma. Hope that one day he will be able to replace the 2A by a 3A.

I wouldn't hold out for his 3A. Axels are the nemesis jump for many great skaters, just think about Lambiel and Chan. Of course everyone is different, but I think the axel is special. The fact that Uno is not landing the 3A even sometimes doesn't bode well.

Meoima · Sep 14, 2014

Newbiespectator said:
Would his GOE be even higher if he threw in a few tanos?

I think Shoma is heading towards the right direction. More quality on the landing and spin overall. I like big jumps but Boyang's jumps left me cold, and his overall presentation....

Meoima · Sep 14, 2014

shingalas said:
I wouldn't hold out for his 3A. Axels are the nemesis jump for many great skaters, just think about Lambiel and Chan. Of course everyone is different, but I think the axel is special. The fact that Uno is not landing the 3A even sometimes doesn't bode well.

Axel is the embodiment for some reasons, especially for men. Lambiel didn't win against Plushy despite having quite good quad, all because of the axel.
When both skaters have good 3A, it's come down to the quad (Plushy and Yagudin shown down).
Overall I think 3A is more important than quad.

jace93 · Sep 14, 2014

shingalas said:
I wouldn't hold out for his 3A. Axels are the nemesis jump for many great skaters, just think about Lambiel and Chan. Of course everyone is different, but I think the axel is special. The fact that Uno is not landing the 3A even sometimes doesn't bode well.

He has landed it at least once at he Asia trophy this year... also Uno is just 16 (he will turn 17 this winter) so he has still some years in the junior ranks to get that axel toghether =)

Wo|flax · Sep 14, 2014

aww the livestream cutoff- we don't get to see Akiko and Nobu?

unico · Sep 14, 2014

jace93 said:
He has landed it at least once at he Asia trophy this year... also Uno is just 16 (he will turn 17 this winter) so he has still some years in the junior ranks to get that axel toghether =)

Sorry, I didn't watch this year's Asian Open, but I checked the protocols, he fell on the 3A (albeit rotated) in the SP and fell again on a 3A< in the FS. Were you talking about one of his 2As?

Anyway, I hope he'll prove me wrong, but I think it's simply not a jump you ever "grow into", no matter what age. Chan squeaking out a 3A at 19 years old didn't improve much at all by him at 23 years old, despite having improved in every other area. It must be something with the forward take-off that makes it so difficult to grasp.

Interspectator · Sep 14, 2014

shingalas said:
Sorry, I didn't watch this year's Asian Open, but I checked the protocols, he fell on the 3A (albeit rotated) in the SP and fell again on a 3A< in the FS. Were you talking about one of his 2As?

Anyway, I hope he'll prove me wrong, but I think it's simply not a jump you ever "grow into", no matter what age. Chan squeaking out a 3A at 19 years old didn't improve much at all by him at 23 years old, despite having improved in every other area. It must be something with the forward take-off that makes it so difficult to grasp.

The importance, score wise, of the 3A is quite significant.
If you have an exceptional 3A like Han Yan and Hanyu, they can score over 10 points each. so a solid 3A trumps a wobbly 4T.
If you have both a solid 3A and a good quad, you're in top medal contention.

Meoima · Sep 14, 2014

shingalas said:
Sorry, I didn't watch this year's Asian Open, but I checked the protocols, he fell on the 3A (albeit rotated) in the SP and fell again on a 3A< in the FS. Were you talking about one of his 2As?
Anyway, I hope he'll prove me wrong, but I think it's simply not a jump you ever "grow into", no matter what age. Chan squeaking out a 3A at 19 years old didn't improve much at all by him at 23 years old, despite having improved in every other area. It must be something with the forward take-off that makes it so difficult to grasp.

The thing with PChan is that he has top notch basic skills... all of his jumps are excellent, no problem with the edges whatsoever... so the 3A is more of a mental problem than his skills. When he lands it, his 3A is really good.

jace93 · Sep 14, 2014

shingalas said:
Sorry, I didn't watch this year's Asian Open, but I checked the protocols, he fell on the 3A (albeit rotated) in the SP and fell again on a 3A< in the FS. Were you talking about one of his 2As?

Anyway, I hope he'll prove me wrong, but I think it's simply not a jump you ever "grow into", no matter what age. Chan squeaking out a 3A at 19 years old didn't improve much at all by him at 23 years old, despite having improved in every other area. It must be something with the forward take-off that makes it so difficult to grasp.

sorry my fault I remembered wrongly... Anyway I agree it will never be Shoma's strongest asset, but seeing the overall quality of his skating and jumps i think he just needs to be able to more or less land it ( as Patrick Chan or Lambiel did) to be competitive on the senior grand prix level... I don't think he will ever be a major contender, but i could really see him become a Machida of sort, someone who could beat the best skating light out, and that thanks his consistency and good pcs can never be counted out in the medal prediction =)

2014 JGP Nagoya TV Cup Mens LP

Meoima

Match Penalty

silverfoxes

Wo|flax

UnChosen

Wo|flax

Interspectator

nipman

Wo|flax

jace93

Meoima

Match Penalty

Interspectator

unico

Meoima

Match Penalty

Meoima

Match Penalty

jace93

Wo|flax

unico

Interspectator

Meoima

Match Penalty

jace93

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