JGP - state of Ladies after four Events | Page 2 | Golden Skate

JGP - state of Ladies after four Events

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I'm rooting for Karen Chen to sneak in there. It's a challenge, but I don't think it's impossible.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
I'm rooting for Karen Chen to sneak in there. It's a challenge, but I don't think it's impossible.
Yes, it is possible.

And may be unpredictable combinations and results.
For example, chances of Rin Nitaya looked much better than Miyu Nakashio before Estonian Event. Now Miyu Nakashio is ahead Rin Nitaya.
 

Chemistry66

Mmmmm, tacos.
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Looking at the results, if Proklova is only in if she wins Croatia or if she gets second with a 175+ (to win tiebreak over Turzynbaeva) AND neither of Sotskova/Chen/Rajicova win. If she gets second with the 175+ and one of those three win, she's first alternate. If she wins, she's in automatically.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Indeed We're looking at a showdown in Croatia for a JGP spot!

Karen Chen 160.95 (3rd, JGP Czech Skate)
Maria Sotskova 159.67 (2nd, JGP Estonia)
Alexandria Prokova 149.16 (3rd, JGP Germany)
Nicole RAJICOVA, 149.11 (4th, JGP Slovakia)

The two on the bubble are:
Miyu NAKASHIO JPN 24 (308.42 total score for two events; wins first place tie breaker)
Elizabet TURZYNBAEVA 24 (324.17 total score).

Elizabet will be out regardless as who ever wins Croatia will be ranked above her be Sotskova (28 points), Chen/Prokova (26 points) or even Rajicova (24 points + 1st place tiebreaker)

Now if Sotskova wins, then the second place winner (either Chen/Prokova) is out of luck as Miyu's 1st place would beat a 2nd/3rd that either Chen/Prokova would end up producing.

If Chen/Prokova wins (26 points) and Sotskova gets second (26 points) then Miyu is also out of the final. But if Chen/Prokova (or the reverse) goes 1-2 and Sotskova ends up third, then only the winner goes in.
 
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Totentanz

Ursula Gumennik
Medalist
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Indeed We're looking at a showdown in Croatia for a JGP spot!

Karen Chen 160.95 (3rd, JGP Czech Skate)
Maria Sotskova 159.67 (2nd, JGP Estonia)
Alexandria Prokova 149.16 (3rd, JGP Germany)
Nicole RAJICOVA, 149.11 (4th, JGP Slovakia)

The two on the bubble are:
Miyu NAKASHIO JPN 24 (308.42 total score for two events; wins first place tie breaker)
Elizabet TURZYNBAEVA 24 (324.17 total score).

Elizabet will be out regardless as who ever wins Croatia will be ranked above her be Sotskova (28 points), Chen/Prokova (26 points) or even Rajicova (24 points + 1st place tiebreaker)

Now if Sotskova wins, then the second place winner (either Chen/Prokova) is out of luck as Miyu's 1st place would beat a 2nd/3rd that either Chen/Prokova would end up producing.

If Chen/Prokova wins (26 points) and Sotskova gets second (26 points) then Miyu is also out of the final.

Thank you for this analysis Mrs. P!! I'm rooting for Sotskova, so basically I must hope that she will get at least the second place next week.
 

MalAssada

Medalist
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
So in order for the 4 Russians go to JGPF, I'm rooting already for Proklova to nail her programs* and Sotskova coming in second place... If I understand it correctly :scratch:
 

Chemistry66

Mmmmm, tacos.
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
So in order for the 4 Russians go to JGPF, I'm rooting already for Proklova to nail her programs* and Sotskova coming in second place... If I understand it correctly :scratch:

Yep, you've understood it correctly! Proklova winning gives her the necessary 11+15 = 26 and Sotskova second gives her 13+13 = 26, which would slot them both into the final over Nakashio (24) and Turzynbaeva (24).
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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Dec 29, 2013
Country
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I'm afraid the JGPF and eventually JWC will come down to an edge call. I hate seeing 3pt penalties on on jumps like Wakaba's because the jump itself looks so good. Yet a fall may only recieve 2ts in deductions if fully rotated. :sigh: hopefully the tech panels will be fair.
 

AprilS

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
I do think the edge penalty is too high in comparison to fall penalties... but maybe if they have this for a few seasons, then coaches will finally get it that they need to teach proper edges? Perhaps once more girls begin to get the proper edges, they'll change the edge deduction back again :)
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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Oh yeah...I'm all for correct edges and I hope it has that effect on the sport. It just makes me nervous giving such a deciding factor to the tech panel. This wouldn't be an issue for me if the proportionality of penalties made more sense. It's like they completely ignored the fact that falls are potentially under punished when making the new rules. Had they also adjusted falls to be a BV reduction, negative GOE, and a 1.0 deduction ....I don't think anyone would care.

@AprilS

I guess I was wrong on that spin today. Wow. It was an attempted combination spin and I thought it was just an illusion spin. Kyueun's score sheet made me dizzy. :bang:
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
When she competes with Sakhanovich and Medevedeva, Higuchi's "e" will be readjusted to "!", IMO.
Anyway, she should concentrate on the 3A. The edges can wait until the off-season.
 

Miss Ice

Let the sky fall~
Medalist
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Meh. Don't like any of the Russian girls. No connection to the music, jumps lack in technique but rotate because of their super thin bodies, emphasis placed on flexibility rather than skating skills. Makes me feel sad really.

The only junior skaters who have made me actually remember figure skating as it once was are Wakaba Higuchi (her recent LP actually gave me goosebumps; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwiYwZzovZc), Karen Chen, and Da Bin Choi.

In Higuchi, I see the class of Mao and Yuna and Carolina which has been dead since they retired. Best wishes for this girl.

When she competes with Sakhanovich and Medevedeva, Higuchi's "e" will be readjusted to "!", IMO.
Anyway, she should concentrate on the 3A. The edges can wait until the off-season.

Personally, I think that Medvedeva's expression skills/speed/ice coverage and style (and also jumping technique; THAT LUTZ of Higuchi, WOW, haven't seen it done so well since Yuna!! :eek: :love:) pale in comparison to Higuchi. There is just a class about her which the Russian girls don't have. :rolleye: She reminds me of a young Mao or Michelle Kwan. All the Russian girls remind me of immature jumping beans.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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^What kind of discussion do you honestly expect to come from posts like this? It would be much more civil to point out all the qualities in Wakaba that you enjoy. I'd most likely agree with you because I too like her very much but you have to know that there are people out there who enjoy what all these young Russians bring. Sure it's different than that of Wakaba but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's emotionless disconnect. It's like your trying simply to insult the many clearly obvious talents that these girls have with the purpose of making a stronger case for Wakaba. I think she is good enough of a skater that you can use her talent and success to paint the picture itself. No need to throw dirt at anyone. YMMV.
 

sunnystars

#teamotherskaters
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Feb 14, 2014
^What kind of discussion do you honestly expect to come from posts like this? It would be much more civil to point out all the qualities in Wakaba that you enjoy. I'd most likely agree with you because I too like her very much but you have to know that there are people out there who enjoy what all these young Russians bring. Sure it's different than that of Wakaba but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's emotionless disconnect. It's like your trying simply to insult the many clearly obvious talents that these girls have with the purpose of making a stronger case for Wakaba. I think she is good enough of a skater that you can use her talent and success to paint the picture itself. No need to throw dirt at anyone. YMMV.

:bow: amen to this
 

Miss Ice

Let the sky fall~
Medalist
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
^What kind of discussion do you honestly expect to come from posts like this? It would be much more civil to point out all the qualities in Wakaba that you enjoy. I'd most likely agree with you because I too like her very much but you have to know that there are people out there who enjoy what all these young Russians bring. Sure it's different than that of Wakaba but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's emotionless disconnect. It's like your trying simply to insult the many clearly obvious talents that these girls have with the purpose of making a stronger case for Wakaba. I think she is good enough of a skater that you can use her talent and success to paint the picture itself. No need to throw dirt at anyone. YMMV.

I am not throwing dirt, that is my honest opinion. The thread is about state of the ladies so I pointed out honestly what I thought about them. I am not "trying" to insult anyone, I am stating my opinion. And I have already gushed over Wakaba in some other threads and since this is not part of the Fan Fest I think I can post some criticism if I want to. Not everything has to be admiration and praise, and those areas are definitely what some of those girls need to work on.

Being a fan of figure skating since 2006, I think I can say that there are clearly places where those girls are lacking in comparison to the top skaters of the past generations. This actually is not an insult of the skaters themselves, but more of a criticism at the way they are being coached; value is placed on jumping passes and odd movements while sloppiness in general skating style and the entire jump technique is gone unnoticed and unfixed. This, in comparison to the classic skating and jumping styles pre-Senior Ladies 2014 (and 2013) (cue: Michelle Kwan, Mao Asada, Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner), is mediocre. If we don't come to terms with this, I don't know if we can remain true to the real essence of figure skating and the skaters which have made it so beautiful and esteemed.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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Being a fan of figure skating since 2006, I think I can say that there are clearly places where those girls are lacking in comparison to the top skaters of the past generations

You make it sound as if this were an issue exclusive to Evgenia and Serafima. I think when taking in the performance/execution and Interpretation scores a fair person would at least acknowledge the presence these girls bring especially Serafima who I see as better at delivering a coheicive CoP program better than a lot of seniors. Of course...you are entitled to your opinion which I'm more than willing to entertain..in fact I've seen the light and changed my mind on a few skaters based on reading posters input and how they are emotionally connecting with them. It is my humble opinion that this:
All the Russian girls remind me of immature jumping beans.
Is purely intended as overly simplistic generalizations and throwing dirt trying to provoke a war of words. Maybe we just have cultural differences that create barriers. This is an international forum after all. We should keep these things in mind when posting our opinions.
 

Miss Ice

Let the sky fall~
Medalist
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
You make it sound as if this were an issue exclusive to Evgenia and Serafima. I think when taking in the performance/execution and Interpretation scores a fair person would at least acknowledge the presence these girls bring especially Serafima who I see as better at delivering a coheicive CoP program better than a lot of seniors. Of course...you are entitled to your opinion which I'm more than willing to entertain..in fact I've seen the light and changed my mind on a few skaters based on reading posters input and how they are emotionally connecting with them. It is my humble opinion that this:
Is purely intended as overly simplistic generalizations and throwing dirt trying to provoke a war of words. Maybe we just have cultural differences that create barriers. This is an international forum after all. We should keep these things in mind when posting our opinions.

I actually don't mind Serafima. She is the only one out of the Russian ladies who I like. I also like Anna Pogorilaya. But I think they both have a lot to work on. I guess I was rash in saying "all of the Russian girls" since I guess that doesn't apply to Serafima. But most of them, in my opinion, that applies to. I guess I should specify that I do not mind Serafima/Anna.

Maybe this will give some perspective, as I am actually Russian too. And I admit that I don't like the way (most) Russian girls skate, but that is just my opinion and personal preference. I just really like well-executed jumps, polished skating style and ice coverage in the style of Michelle Kwan, Mao, Yuna, Carolina, etc... the way many of the current new junior/senior ladies are praised make it seem like they are almost on the same level as those legends, and that is why I do not like to praise skaters unless they are exceptional. (This is especially true for the Russian girls fanbase, their fans tend to exaggerate their accomplishments and skating skill way too much -_-). And, in this context, most of the girls from Russia, the United States, and virtually from any other country, lack many of the things which defined the legends of the sport. The reason I said Russian girls in particular is because their fanbase gets out of control and I wanted to state my contrasting opinion, as critical as it is. These opinions, and not just praise, have to be heard too.)
 

Interspectator

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
I am not throwing dirt, that is my honest opinion. The thread is about state of the ladies so I pointed out honestly what I thought about them. I am not "trying" to insult anyone, I am stating my opinion. And I have already gushed over Wakaba in some other threads and since this is not part of the Fan Fest I think I can post some criticism if I want to. Not everything has to be admiration and praise, and those areas are definitely what some of those girls need to work on.

Being a fan of figure skating since 2006, I think I can say that there are clearly places where those girls are lacking in comparison to the top skaters of the past generations. This actually is not an insult of the skaters themselves, but more of a criticism at the way they are being coached; value is placed on jumping passes and odd movements while sloppiness in general skating style and the entire jump technique is gone unnoticed and unfixed. This, in comparison to the classic skating and jumping styles pre-Senior Ladies 2014 (and 2013) (cue: Michelle Kwan, Mao Asada, Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner), is mediocre. If we don't come to terms with this, I don't know if we can remain true to the real essence of figure skating and the skaters which have made it so beautiful and esteemed.

You are cherry picking the best of the best in your comment above. The women you mentioned did not even all debut together.
The girls from Russia are an impressive force, but they are also individuals who all develop at their own pace and are still developing. Who knows what will happen to each in the future, but the only thing they really have in common right now is their nationality and their youth. They are each actually very different in terms of what they bring to the table and potential.
 

Miss Ice

Let the sky fall~
Medalist
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
You are cherry picking the best of the best in your comment above. The women you mentioned did not even all debut together.
The girls from Russia are an impressive force, but they are also individuals who all develop at their own pace and are still developing. Who knows what will happen to each in the future, but the only thing they really have in common right now is their nationality and their youth. They are each actually very different in terms of what they bring to the table and potential.

I guess I just don't like the Russian school of skating right now. The way they are training their skaters and the things they emphasize are just not what I think is ideal or good for the skaters or the sport. That is all. Nothing personal. The skating school and the line of thought that they are in already limits their potential, and that is the main problem I have I guess. It is the reason I don't like their skating style, not because I think they are individually bad or untalented or whatever.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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Dec 29, 2013
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You're kind of playing two decks here. On one hand you say "Russian fans" are a bit crazy and overstating the accomplishments and talents of their favorite skaters unfairly. But only a post or two before you say this:

I think that Medvedeva's expression skills/speed/ice coverage and style (and also jumping technique; THAT LUTZ of Higuchi, WOW, haven't seen it done so well since Yuna!! ) pale in comparison to Higuchi. There is just a class about her which the Russian girls don't have. She reminds me of a young Mao or Michelle Kwan.

Yuna,Mao, and Kwan are legends in my book and you equate Wakaba to them or a young version. I think it's great that Wakaba evokes these feelings in you and good for her in doing so. Where have you seen Russian fans comparing skaters to legends like this. I can't say Serafima or Evgenia remind me of anyone. To me they seem fresh and that is part of the appeal.

Back on Topic: does anyone think Karen Chen can sneak into the GPF. Apparently all she needs is a silver medal score of 161 :popcorn:
 
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