Evgenia Tarasova & Vladimir Morozov | Page 24 | Golden Skate

Evgenia Tarasova & Vladimir Morozov

anonymoose_au

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It's ONE competition.

Imagine teling Mao she was done after she lost to Miki Ando. :/

Indeed! Not even I was so pessimistic! :p

Admittedly, things won't be as easy in Russia for them as before, but I think T/M have it in them. Their technical elements are beautiful and I'm totally into they're programs!

If they can recapture their Russian Test skates form they'll be on the top still I think.
 

lariko

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Jan 31, 2019
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He did look tired from the start, I hope he is not injured because he looked pained. I’m so sad to see them miss the lift.
 

aka_gerbil

On the Ice
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Nov 13, 2012
I primarily follow ice dance and I have just seen this scenario so many times that, particularly on a national level, once a younger team beats an older team, that's it for the older team. They lose that number 1 spot and they do not get it back.

They were great at test skates, but they're 2 for 2 on disaster competitions this season. The situation in Florida clearly is not working. Max, with literally no coaching experience, had them competing better last season. As things stand right now, they're falling apart technically in competition and they seem to be falling apart mentally too. I just feel like this is going to get even worse, not better.
 

medoroa

On the Ice
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Dec 30, 2017
I wasn't a fan before but I'm really enjoying T/M's programs this season. I feel like they've finally fallen into a stylistic niche that suits them, after years and years of choreographers and coaches trying to push them into this ill-suited style and that ill-advised choreography. One tragic thing about figure skating is that when skaters reach an age where they are actually starting to be "artistic" (rather than choreography-replicating automatons) they tend to be past their technical prime, but pairs is much, much more lenient in this regard than singles, so I think T/M can continue to compete at a high level. Their PCS will likely be lower than what they're used to, but if they skate clean I think they'll still be rewarded fairly! I hope they're not feeling too discouraged so early in the season.

(Or Tarasova could try the "women who skate with a Morozov will win Olympic gold after leaving said Morozov" jinx but I hope not, I'm just starting to enjoy them.)
 

anonymoose_au

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I wasn't a fan before but I'm really enjoying T/M's programs this season. I feel like they've finally fallen into a stylistic niche that suits them, after years and years of choreographers and coaches trying to push them into this ill-suited style and that ill-advised choreography. One tragic thing about figure skating is that when skaters reach an age where they are actually starting to be "artistic" (rather than choreography-replicating automatons) they tend to be past their technical prime, but pairs is much, much more lenient in this regard than singles, so I think T/M can continue to compete at a high level. Their PCS will likely be lower than what they're used to, but if they skate clean I think they'll still be rewarded fairly! I hope they're not feeling too discouraged so early in the season.

(Or Tarasova could try the "women who skate with a Morozov will win Olympic gold after leaving said Morozov" jinx but I hope not, I'm just starting to enjoy them.)

Gasp! Oh no, I'd be devastated if they split up! They've been together for so long and it would be so sad.

Although now that you mention it, both Aliona S. and Tatiana V. skated with a Morozov...(it was the same Morozov wasn't it?)

But Vladimir is my fave and is awesome. Best Morozov hands down! :p
 

coldblueeyes

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Oct 25, 2014
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Brazil
I hope they can compete well at COR, mostly because their programs are good and I'd hate to see their team think that they made the wrong choice with the packaging.
 

lariko

Medalist
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Jan 31, 2019
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Canada
He didn’t say anything about any injuries in the snippet of the interviews I saw on Twitter. Fingers crossed. They were so beautiful to watch. It felt like they breathe together. It was one of those things that’s impossible to notice on TV.
 

Artemisa

Final Flight
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Sep 15, 2017
The SkC rankings were fair but I question the scores. Aleksandra and Dmitri were perfect technically but hardly excelled as the James Bond types. She is very cute but honestly there was no expression of character. For A/D to be just one point behind in components to Evgenia and Vladimir is ludicrous. Other than the botched lift (aghhhhh!) E/V had a soul-searching, suffering Russian performance that was terrific!

The expression of the character of james bond is on PCS ... not in tech ... and one of the things that T/M don't excel is in the expression in the programs ... so if we put Morozov against Dima ... I think the judges will prefer Dima ...
In tech something is happening to them (even without the lift) ... they are loosing levels ( even with great GOE) when before they were bullet proof ... and B/D are progressing in them ... and B/D had throw 3Lutz where T/M had a 3 schalow ... and in the jumps B/D had a perfect 3 schalow and T/M 2 schalow with a negative GOE ... so that's the reason of the tech ...

B/D did there job ... T/M didn't ...
But I think if T/M would have skate clean .. they would have won ... but not by much
 

anonymoose_au

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In way more positive news, I admit I was kinda holding out for the exhibition they did at World's with dancing Vovan, but T/M had an absolutely stunning gala skate. It was truly beautiful, I was almost speechless. :)

https://youtu.be/n9EZLmB5APM - For your enjoyment! :luv17:
 

anonymoose_au

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Pops in to update you all on Zhenya and Vovan.

Plus side - Vovan's hair (as always) the triple twist, the last lift :love:

Minus side - Vovan seems to be having stamina issues...I thought I read something about him having a heart thing? If so I hope he stays healthy! Anyway he made some mistakes, so alas they're in second right now, 4 points behind Sasha and Dima (who were amazing).

I'm sad that I won't be able to watch the FS as it's on at like 3am, but I remain hopeful! Go T/M!

Also Zhenya was very sweet to Vovan at the end of the skate even though he made those mistakes. I thought that was really nice! :)
 

anonymoose_au

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Returns to update on Zhenya and Vovan.

So I just randomly woke up 20 minutes ago to see that T/M came second today. It's like 5am here so haven't watched the whole event, but I did make sure to rewind the stream to see them.

Pluses - Vovan's hair ;) , the music, the lifts (all went smoothly today!), Vovan being back in form! Zhenya was smiley in the KnC. :) PCS score was the best of the competition!

Minuses - Zhenya had trouble with the jumps today - no falls though! They seemed kind of rushed, it's hard to describe! They were 10 points behind Sasha and Dima on tech!

Anyway! I think they've made the GPF, but I'm not sure?

The Gala is in 17 hours, I'm not sure if I'll be able to reach it live, but either way I'm sure T/M will do a beautiful ex for us!
 

slider11

Medalist
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Jan 12, 2014
Yes, I am concerned that Vlad seems to run out of steam by the end of the program. He was better in the LP but something is distracting his concentration to get the little things right. He reminds me of Alexander Smirnov, who at the end of his LP was red in the face and gasping for air! I really like their programs this year and maybe they can pull it together for Nationals and still make it to Worlds. Probably not first but second or third would work. I hope we haven't seen the last of them!
 

aka_gerbil

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
I know I sound like a broken record, but the move to Florida is not working. This season is a disastrous set back for them.

I was told Russian skaters can only change coaches at a particular time of year. Max and Mozer are still listed, so maybe they could get around some things the rest of this season. Then, figure out who next. They need a very strong pairs technical coach.

T/M have the talent to be world and Olympic champions. I just think this season has killed any possibility of it happening this quad. Pairs tend to have though. They’ll be 31 and 33 in 2026–younger than some of the more recent ogm’s. Aliona was 34. Hongbo Zhao was 37. Maybe the answer is write this quad off and focus on the next. Work on getting the catch on the quad twist clean and on a quad throw or two. Work with someone like Raf or Eteri or Mishin on jumps. (I think they’d need the increase in base value to pull this off.)
 

Dreamer57

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May 20, 2018
I know I sound like a broken record, but the move to Florida is not working. This season is a disastrous set back for them.

I was told Russian skaters can only change coaches at a particular time of year. Max and Mozer are still listed, so maybe they could get around some things the rest of this season. Then, figure out who next. They need a very strong pairs technical coach.

T/M have the talent to be world and Olympic champions. I just think this season has killed any possibility of it happening this quad. Pairs tend to have though. They’ll be 31 and 33 in 2026–younger than some of the more recent ogm’s. Aliona was 34. Hongbo Zhao was 37. Maybe the answer is write this quad off and focus on the next. Work on getting the catch on the quad twist clean and on a quad throw or two. Work with someone like Raf or Eteri or Mishin on jumps. (I think they’d need the increase in base value to pull this off.)

I'm a little puzzled as to why this quad would be written off? :scratch2: We've not even seen GPF or nationals yet.

Sure I question the move to Zueva...if it was to improve components then I would have considered Lambiel or one of the ice dancing coaches in Russia.
I do agree that they have the talent to be champions! Indeed Raf seems to be the best person for jumps at the moment. We'll have to wait and see what they do next.

I think all the little mistakes are largely down to mindset and handling pressure. They're getting there.
 

anonymoose_au

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I find it ironic that some people (not directing this at anyone in particular) were basically screaming at T/M to change coaches and now they have people (maybe the same ones!) bemoaning the fact they have :(

Poor T/M seem unable to win in a general sense...no matter what they try there's criticism - when they started out: "Oh no, not another boring Russian pair" when they tried new musical styles: "They look ridiculous and embarrassing" and now when they've changed coaches. Obviously constructive criticism has its place, but I don't feel like that's what it is.

T/M have the talent to be world and Olympic champions... They’ll be 31 and 33 in 2026–younger than some of the more recent ogm’s. Aliona was 34. Hongbo Zhao was 37.

I feel like those two were outliers, I mean pairs teams are usually older than single skaters sure, but not by that much. I still feel like 2018 was the best time for them and so many hoped they wouldn't win just because they didn't like their music. :( And they didn't even make podium at all and it was so sad.

Maybe the answer is write this quad off and focus on the next. Work on getting the catch on the quad twist clean and on a quad throw or two. Work with someone like Raf or Eteri or Mishin on jumps. (I think they’d need the increase in base value to pull this off.)

Unfortunately (or fortunately?) quads aren't valued highly enough it pairs for that to mean much unless they can do it perfectly.

Which is another thing that worried me, they didn't seem as sharp as usual in this FS. I hope that it was a one off, their technical persision is one of the best things about them.

We shall see how they are at the Gala.
 

aka_gerbil

On the Ice
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Nov 13, 2012
Anyway! I think they've made the GPF, but I'm not sure?

It depends on what happens at NHK next week. They need M/G to beat M-T/M for second. That would put them in a tiebreaker with M-T/M, then T/M would need a higher overall score to win the tiebreak and make it in. M-T/M need to score 210. something, which is pretty doable for them though. If M-T/M are second again, T/M are out. Worlds are in Canada this season, and Canada is going to be pushing M-T/M for the GPF to set them up to try to get them on the podium at worlds. I'm going to be surprised if T/M make it in.

I'm a little puzzled as to why this quad would be written off? :scratch2: We've not even seen GPF or nationals yet.

As I said above, I'm going to be surprised if T/M make the GPF. There's an outside shot depending on how things go at NHK, but I'm not holding my breath. I don't think GPF is going to be a thing T/M do this season.

I think they're just in too big of a hole to dig themselves out of right now, both nationally and internationally. Historically, no pairs team that competed in to GP events and failed to make the GPF has ever gone on to medal at worlds in that season in a non-Olympic. That's a lot of data points going back to when it first started as the champions series finale. So, odds are high that they're also going to fall off the world podium this season all together.

I took a look at some Russian coverage of the event, and they're saying in the press that B/K can challenge S/H for the GPF title, etc. So, it's clear who they now consider number 1 and whom they'll be backing. I can tell you right now who is going to win Russian nationals, and it's not going to be T/M.

Olympics are in China in 2022. S/H are incredible in their own right, but T/M also want to be world and Olympic champions and they have the talent for it. Momentum is important. I think if T/M wanted a chance in 2022, they needed to come in with at least one world title. I admit to partially basing this off ice dance, but it seemed like to me it needed to happen this season.

T/M have two hills to climb now--back to Russian #1, which is unlikely to happen this season. Then, back to the big podiums internationally. It's going to take a lot of time to build momentum back up. That's why I say this quad is a write off. This season is shot. Next season is the pre-Olympic season. I think maybe it's more realistic to start looking into the next quad if they still want to try to win worlds and the Olympics.


Sure I question the move to Zueva...if it was to improve components then I would have considered Lambiel or one of the ice dancing coaches in Russia.
I do agree that they have the talent to be champions! Indeed Raf seems to be the best person for jumps at the moment. We'll have to wait and see what they do next.

I think all the little mistakes are largely down to mindset and handling pressure. They're getting there.

I had wanted them to go to Marina for choreography months before they even announced the move. I just question them being coached full-time by an ice dance coach. You are very right that there were options among Russia's ice dance coaches if they wanted to work on those aspects--Zhulin, S/B's coaches, Angelika Krylova is there now.

Mozer does not want to coach full-time. Max had had no coaching experience and didn't feel like he could do it. They have to have a coach. Just watching how this season has been playing out for T/M and how it looks like it's going to go for the rest of it, it just doesn't seem to be working. The last time a favorite of mine made a coaching change, it was when Hubbell/Donohue went to Montreal. They went from barely making top 10 at worlds, barely making worlds to begin with in 2015, etc. to making the GPF in basically the first 6 months of being with D/L. I don't buy that there has to be some sort of regression in a coaching change. It's hard to watch T/M struggling so much and falling behind. Marina's camp is an ice dance camp, and I just feel like they technically need someone who coaches pairs on a full time basis.


I feel like those two were outliers, I mean pairs teams are usually older than single skaters sure, but not by that much. I still feel like 2018 was the best time for them and so many hoped they wouldn't win just because they didn't like their music. :( And they didn't even make podium at all and it was so sad.

My heart broke for them in 2018. I wish they'd managed to at least hang on to bronze.

I thought this quad was going to be their quad. When they first moved up to seniors, they were the hope for 2022. It's what they were touted for. Then, things went the way they did and the ended up being Russia 1 early, before they were ready to handle that pressure. Now, I feel like everyone but a handful of us wants them out of the way, going off what other people are saying, social media, comments in the Russian press. It's like they haven't gotten their time to shine yet.


Unfortunately (or fortunately?) quads aren't valued highly enough it pairs for that to mean much unless they can do it perfectly.

It's that if the quads aren't clean, they lose so much value that it's not worth it unless the team can do it perfectly. If they could get it clean, that's a lot of base value points. Just looking at what the other teams can do, I do think that T/M are going to need to upgrade their base value. They're not going to be out there doing sbs flips or lutzes. They tried the throw flip last year and took it out. I feel like getting the quad twist cleaned up is within reach, and I think they get enough height on the throw loop and salchow that she could get the fourth rotation in there. To me, those just look like the upgrades that would be most in reach for them, and if they could get them, a lot of points there to be had that would be hard for the others to go after

Which is another thing that worried me, they didn't seem as sharp as usual in this FS. I hope that it was a one off, their technical persision is one of the best things about them.

And that is why I think they need a full-time pairs technical coach. It's not just this competition. It's been every competition they've been at this year. Ice dance is not the same as pairs and I think they clearly need someone who does pairs technique with them all the time. They have fabulous skills, but they have to maintain that.

I know I'm very down about all of this, but this is the first pairs team I've ubered since Brasseur/Eisler were competing, and it makes me so sad to see them struggling when they have all the goods to win and it feels like everything is going wrong for them this season.
 

anonymoose_au

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I wonder which pairs coach could coach them though? Moskvina has Sasha and Dima (how come no-one's questioning them being number one so soon? It seems like there's rules for T/M that no other team need to follow). If only Nina M could come back for them, Zhenya obviously feels comfortable with her.

With Vovan having stamina issues I can't see how he could possibly make 2026 even if he wanted too :( I don't think they should write this quad off, there's too many pairs to just be like "Eh, we'll just coast along."

Anyway, I have decided to be philosophical even if T/M don't win or even medal their style is my favourite of all and watching them skate well is a pleasure.

That's why I was concerned at their FS, it looked...so imprecise and rushed :( I know a lot of pairs have that style, but I prefer T/M's old way and would hate for it too disappear.
 

aka_gerbil

On the Ice
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Nov 13, 2012
I wonder which pairs coach could coach them though? Moskvina has Sasha and Dima (how come no-one's questioning them being number one so soon? It seems like there's rules for T/M that no other team need to follow). If only Nina M could come back for them, Zhenya obviously feels comfortable with her.

It's a good question, and it's not an easy one to answer. They seem comfortable and technically well-prepared with Mozer, but she doesn't want to coach full-time. I thought Max did a better job with them last year than either he or anyone else gives him credit for, but he doesn't feel like he has the experience to coach them and also has his young family to support. Moskvina is out. Artur Dmietriev comes up sometimes on Russian boards.

Bruno Massot is doing some coaching, but it's teams not quite at T/M's level.

Zimmerman and Fontana have J/C, so I don't know/think they'd take T/M right now.

An idea I had before, when I was thinking Marina for choreo, was Robin Szolkowy, who is coaching with Meno/Sand in Southern California right now. He's worked with them before and they seemed to enjoy working with him. They would have access to Rafael Arutyunyan for jumps there. There was also a recent Russian interview in which Marina said Katia Gordeeva wanted to work with them. As she lives in the area too, she would also be around.

As for your other question on why no one's questioning anything and why T/M seem to have a separate set of rules that no one else has to follow..... it's very ice dance of pairs skating. There has been more than one ice dance team over the years that has had a more strict set of rules to follow than everyone else. T/M seems the unlucky pairs team that got handed a harsher set of rules. I sometimes feel like the sport is harder on its more talented skaters. It feels like they get nitpicked when others get passes.


With Vovan having stamina issues I can't see how he could possibly make 2026 even if he wanted too :( I don't think they should write this quad off, there's too many pairs to just be like "Eh, we'll just coast along."

Stamina issues or concentration issues? It's almost like their minds have been elsewhere when competing. They had so much confidence and command at test skates, but that's all evaporated into them just seeming to take the ice half-heartedly. It's like....what happened? SLC was because they just were not prepared with all of their travel and only getting back to the US the day before the competition. It's just snowballed ever since.

That's why I was concerned at their FS, it looked...so imprecise and rushed :( I know a lot of pairs have that style, but I prefer T/M's old way and would hate for it too disappear.

One of the great things about T/M's skating is the big spectacular elements and that they completely finish and hold their moves.
 

Artemisa

Final Flight
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Sep 15, 2017
Please stop the negative thought... They were better ... so they are progressing ... I don't think is something to do with there technic (or coachs ... I liked Max in there team) .. they didn't change that much to lose the technic .. the problem is in there mind .. in the SP it seems lack of concentration ...or maybe a mental defeat for some reason...maybe because of the lost in the olympics and then worlds ... they weren't ready for that kind of results... and them you have all juniors rasing stars in seniors and you have to deal with that ( a strange situation for them ... they were the 4-3 team , then 2, then 1 but they never had a direct real competition in any phase)

Or maybe people are trying to change to much of who they are and they are lost ... maybe they were more happy skating to candyman ( with the yellow costume ... and yes I liked there program ...) .. who knows ... but I think by nationals they will be ready ( maybe is better not going to GPF)
 
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