2015 US Nationals Senior Men FS Jan 25

karne · Jan 28, 2015

It was also Damon who once referred to Josh as "Plushenko 2.0" in an article because of Josh's fantastic air position and security with it at the time. :laugh:

You want to talk PCS issues? One of the biggest jokes of the 2012-2013 season was the fact that Josh and Maxim Kovtun were only a point apart after the SP at the JGPF and that Kovtun's PCS were actually comparable to Josh's. LOL, NO, JUDGES.

For posterity, let's just note the quad status of all four podium finishers at Nats.

Jason: SP nil, LP nil*
Adam: SP 4Lz<, LP 4Lz<<
Josh: SP nil, LP 4T (-GOE)
Max: SP 4S (-GOE), LP 4S-3T (+2), 4S (-GOE)

*- backloads like a freaking boss, though. Awesome.

I think a LOT of people who are carrying on about Adam seem to forget that he did not rotate ANY of his attempts. Josh has been getting credit for rotation for forever on his 4T even when he falls, and I don't think I've EVER seen a < next to Max's 4S. (Side note: he doesn't fall off them, either. The last time he did was probably 2012 Nats.)

OS · Jan 28, 2015

karne said:
It was also Damon who once referred to Josh as "Plushenko 2.0" in an article because of Josh's fantastic air position and security with it at the time.

You want to talk PCS issues? One of the biggest jokes of the 2012-2013 season was the fact that Josh and Maxim Kovtun were only a point apart after the SP at the JGPF and that Kovtun's PCS were actually comparable to Josh's. LOL, NO, JUDGES.

For posterity, let's just note the quad status of all four podium finishers at Nats.

Jason: SP nil, LP nil*
Adam: SP 4Lz<, LP 4Lz<<
Josh: SP nil, LP 4T (-GOE)
Max: SP 4S (-GOE), LP 4S-3T (+2), 4S (-GOE)

*- backloads like a freaking boss, though. Awesome.

I think a LOT of people who are carrying on about Adam seem to forget that he did not rotate ANY of his attempts. Josh has been getting credit for rotation for forever on his 4T even when he falls, and I don't think I've EVER seen a < next to Max's 4S. (Side note: he doesn't fall off them, either. The last time he did was probably 2012 Nats.)

4Lz < is not nothing, it is tremendous!! It is at least = if not better than a fully roated 3Lz. It is better than poor to adequate 3lz but may be not better than a good to great 3lz.

karne · Jan 29, 2015

os168 said:
4Lz < is not nothing, it is tremendous!! It is at least = if not better than a fully roated 3Lz. It is better than poor to adequate 3lz but may be not better than a good to great 3lz.

Where did I say the 4Lz< was "nothing"? I didn't. But I think a lot of people are choosing to overlook that Adam DIDN'T rotate the quad Lutz.

Li'Kitsu · Jan 29, 2015

os168 said:
4Lz < is not nothing, it is tremendous!! It is at least = if not better than a fully roated 3Lz. It is better than poor to adequate 3lz but may be not better than a good to great 3lz.

IMO, the point how the IJS likes it these days: 4T(fall) > 4Lz(UR). URs are such a big deal - falls less so.

TMC · Jan 29, 2015

Li'Kitsu said:
IMO, the point how the IJS likes it these days: 4T(fall) > 4Lz(UR). URs are such a big deal - falls less so.

....aaand this is why people don't tune in anymore. If they watch and enjoy the performances, then see a guy with 2 falls & okay performance win over a guy with 2 URs & awesome performance, they will throw their remote at the tv. The ISU needs to fix this stat (see Jackie Wong), but instead they bring in a brain fart Zayak rule.

karne · Jan 29, 2015

Li'Kitsu said:
IMO, the point how the IJS likes it these days: 4T(fall) > 4Lz(UR). URs are such a big deal - falls less so.

But Jeremy (who fell on his 4T), finished well behind Adam, and Joshua didn't fall off his, just turned out of it.

Blades of Passion · Jan 29, 2015

Jeremy's quad was called as underrotated, he fell on another jump, and he doubled his lutz. Josh would have finished above Adam and maybe even won the competition if he had singled his double toeloop (such a hilarious and ridiculous thing to consider).

Li'Kitsu · Jan 29, 2015

I was saying that more as a general thing (that I definitely DON'T agree with), than only applying it to this competition. Jeremy could have even afforded the mistake on the quad, it were other mistakes that did him in (as BoP mentioned).

When it comes to "who's closest to getting the quad?" though, I think rotating but falling is closer than underrotating on it. That's why I already said I'm optimistic for Josh but less so for Adam. But I'd have nothing against Adam proving me wrong.

TMC · Jan 29, 2015

Li'Kitsu said:
I was saying that more as a general thing (that I definitely DON'T agree with), than only applying it to this competition. Jeremy could have even afforded the mistake on the quad, it were other mistakes that did him in (as BoP mentioned).

When it comes to "who's closest to getting the quad?" though, I think rotating but falling is closer than underrotating on it. That's why I already said I'm optimistic for Josh but less so for Adam. But I'd have nothing against Adam proving me wrong.

:agree:

gkelly · Jan 29, 2015

Li'Kitsu said:
IMO, the point how the IJS likes it these days: 4T(fall) > 4Lz(UR). URs are such a big deal - falls less so.

Hm, I remember another US men's competition when the guy who fell on a 4T beat the guy who stood up on an underrotated 4Lz.

Of course, in that case, it was more about the rest of the program holding more weight than one jump.

In the arena I was outraged. Later after rewatching on video and reflecting, I could understand the majority of the judges' point of view.

But in any case, it's not just about 6.0 vs. IJS.

2015 US Nationals Senior Men FS Jan 25

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

OS

Sedated by Modonium

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

Li'Kitsu

TMC

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Li'Kitsu

TMC

gkelly

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