2015 Four Continents Ladies Free Skate Feb 15 Seoul Time

cruzceleste said:

I didn´t knew Ito had anorexia.

Click to expand...

Might not have been AN, could just be bulimia. Or a combination. It was sad to see her starve down to look like Yamaguchi who was all of 80 pounds naturally. I wish she would have had better off ice dance or choreo instruction, because she would have been just fine presenting with her power but with better positioning. I always felt her arms and hands were so stiff and awkward. She couldn't help her bowed legs, so bring the focus upwards. At least she made her mark in the sport.

slider11 said:

It occurs to me that all the top 3 ladies have that "better to come from behind"; don't put too much on me as the front runner mind set. Ashley was suppose to be great at the Nationals in 2014 and squeezed into 4th. Gracie was the favorite this year and slid into second. Polina was the ingenue in 2014 but couldn't keep top 3 at this year's Nationals. Lucky for her Karen Chen is too young for Worlds and was sent to Junior Worlds so Polina got 4CC and Worlds. Pressure off and bam - she's the winner at 4CC. Now, really none of the US ladies are strong podium contenders in my mind although one could make it. The Russian gals are the front runners with one or more Japanese lady close behind. I can't see all 3 Russians choking but 1 or 2 might along with the Japanese. That would open the door for Grashlina (get it - Gracie/Ashley/Polina) We won't know the true identity until late March!!

Click to expand...

See, I am mystified by the pervading mentality that the Russians are the frontrunners. Tuk/Radionova will likely be the top two. But in an "everyone clean" scenario, Pogorilaya is going to come in 5th. Look at her Euros PCS. High 6's/low 7's for a girl who made two GPFs in a row and was 4th at Worlds last year? The international judges are not here for her. I think Polina and Satoko can/will pass her on the 2nd mark too. Pogo only makes the podium if Ashley and Gracie both make mistakes. It's certainly possible (I bet she beats Gracie, but that will be Gracie's fault), but she is not the bronze medal favorite. In my mind, Wagner has the clear advantage of the three. Let's not forget that she beat Radionova on PCS when both were clean in the GPF.

donezo said:

See, I am mystified by the pervading mentality that the Russians are the frontrunners. Tuk/Radionova will likely be the top two. But in an "everyone clean" scenario, Pogorilaya is going to come in 5th. Look at her Euros PCS. High 6's/low 7's for a girl who made two GPFs in a row and was 4th at Worlds last year? The international judges are not here for her. I think Polina and Satoko can/will pass her on the 2nd mark too. Pogo only makes the podium if Ashley and Gracie both make mistakes. It's certainly possible (I bet she beats Gracie, but that will be Gracie's fault), but she is not the bronze medal favorite. In my mind, Wagner has the clear advantage of the three. Let's not forget that she beat Radionova on PCS when both were clean in the GPF.

Click to expand...

Liza and Elena are indeed the frontrunners, and they're Russian. There is no prevailing mentality that Anna is a lock for bronze.

That being said, clean Anna is not going to lose PCS to Satoko or Polina. Of course, she can still lose to them if she makes mistakes (and in fact did lose to Rika at CoR).

donezo said:

See, I am mystified by the pervading mentality that the Russians are the frontrunners. Tuk/Radionova will likely be the top two. But in an "everyone clean" scenario, Pogorilaya is going to come in 5th. Look at her Euros PCS. High 6's/low 7's for a girl who made two GPFs in a row and was 4th at Worlds last year? The international judges are not here for her. I think Polina and Satoko can/will pass her on the 2nd mark too. Pogo only makes the podium if Ashley and Gracie both make mistakes. It's certainly possible (I bet she beats Gracie, but that will be Gracie's fault), but she is not the bronze medal favorite. In my mind, Wagner has the clear advantage of the three. Let's not forget that she beat Radionova on PCS when both were clean in the GPF.

Click to expand...

Comparing most recent competition results, Anna had higher PCS at Euros than both Polina and Satoko in both the SP and FS, and virtually equal PCS to Gracie at 4CC. So in an all clean scenario, it is highly unlikely Anna loses PCS to Polina and Satoko, especially because she is likely to place ahead of both in the SP (due to 3lz-3t GOE and Polina's edge call on 3f), which should place her in the final warmup for the FS as opposed to the penultimate group. If Gracie skates well, her PCS will be a couple points above Anna, but if she is off like she was at 4CCs, their PCS are bound to be about the same or Gracie's might even be worse.

Wagner has the potential to get the highest PCS of the field, at Euros Elena and Tuk had high PCS marks, but they haven't been that way all season so it's hard to say. If Ashley hits though I do think she deserves the highest PCS of the field and the overall result will come down to the technical.

LiamForeman said:

Might not have been AN, could just be bulimia. Or a combination. It was sad to see her starve down to look like Yamaguchi who was all of 80 pounds naturally. I wish she would have had better off ice dance or choreo instruction, because she would have been just fine presenting with her power but with better positioning. I always felt her arms and hands were so stiff and awkward. She couldn't help her bowed legs, so bring the focus upwards. At least she made her mark in the sport.

Click to expand...

While the late 80's and early 90's were considered the prime years for US ladies FS, it was also a time where I felt a lot of the stereotype was placed on lady skaters. The judging under 6.0, especially regarding the presentation, was always biased towards the emotional, balletic, classically feminine, pretty or even the seductive sort. Yamaguchi, Trenary and certainly Witt and Baiul among the Europeans were favoured. Skaters like Ito, Harding and Bonaly who were powerful athletes with energetic skating styles (more "muscular" skating) found less favour and their muscular bow legs certainly will not give them beautiful lines, although their jumps were exceptional. Much as you can say Bonaly was a poor skater or Harding messed up her life, I think they were extraordinary in their technical prowess and remembered for their athleticism. Unfortunately when they were competing, their technical powers may not find much judging favour due to the bias in the presentation scores. Ito and Harding in particular will easily come out tops in the TES under CoP judging and will also score high on SS and TR in the PCS. In a way, the judging preference under CoP extended to the Kwan Slutskaya era where the latter simply had to try difficult jumps just so as to even match the former in the presentation. I still remember Irina having to adapt to a balletic style in the 2001/2002 season (her Tosca programme to me was so unreal!) which certainly blunted her real personality. When CoP came along, she went straight to energetic routines like Totentanz and her Worlds 2005 LP music which suited her much better and clearly she enjoyed those more. So, I do think that CoP has allowed a greater variety of skaters to flourish and certainly has pushed the technical edge even more. Champions not just have to be jumping beans but require good performance. I do think that Polina deserved her win for being the cleanest in her 2 programmes at 4CC and I can see the raw potential in her that can translate to excellence as long as she is given time to mature and refine her skating.

rite of spring said:

Where would you send her?
I was thinking about that but couldn't think of a right person.

Click to expand...

TSL mentioned Kori Ade, who I think could be a good choice.

Another possibility would be Christy Krall. I know she's a technical coach and technique is not really Gracie's issue, but she does seem nurturing to her students and she seemed to help calm Josh Farris' and Patrick Chan's competitive nerves down a bit.

If she wanted to stay in SoCal she could try Tammy Gambill. I know she's tough but she seems more nurturing and less stoic than FC.

Others have mentioned Orser and while I agree he does have a lot of students, he isn't coaching a top lady right now so he might be willing to take her on.

In any event, I'd definitely get a new choreographer for next season. Maybe Shae-Lynn Bourne as she seems to be good at putting together sassy and upbeat routines. She's done some fabulous programs for Kiira Korpi in recent years. The coach situation might just need more time to gel, so she might be better off in the long run staying with Frank through next season at least.

Sandpiper said:

I don't understand. Are Satoko's jumps outright offensive to people? Tara didn't have big jumps, and she's World and Olympic champion. Michelle didn't have big jumps, but she is five-time World champion and one of the greatest of the modern era. Are those ladies unwatchable to fans today?

Click to expand...

I think people would just like to see the jumps improve since the rest of skating is top notch and the jumps still leave a lot to be desired. Some people might also think she's overscored because they think she deserves -GOE or < on most of her jumps. I like Satoko's skating but she should work on her jumps. I know she is small but that alone isn't an excuse. Karen Chen is the same height as Satoko and nearly as delicate in her build, yet she has huge jumps. Flawed jumping technique is the main cause of Satoko's low jumps and something that I hope she looks into fixing, because with bigger jumps she would be fabulous!

noidont said:

Zijun is a bit slow. So is Polina Edmunds. (Not talking about this competition, but in general.)

Click to expand...

They both have a wispy build, and given their respective ages, I don't think that is going to change a whole lot going forward. I think they could both benefit from some strength training, more speed and power would definitely make it easier to get those jumps around, especially now that both girls have gotten pretty tall. They are getting the jumps around for the most part, but it would be better if they could get them around more definitely, like Gracie does (when she doesn't pop all her jumps).

Sandpiper said:

I don't understand. Are Satoko's jumps outright offensive to people? Tara didn't have big jumps, and she's World and Olympic champion. Michelle didn't have big jumps, but she is five-time World champion and one of the greatest of the modern era. Are those ladies unwatchable to fans today?

Click to expand...

Tara and Michelle usually rotated all of their jumps and looked good while doing them. Even Tara got more amplitude on her jumps.

Blades of Passion said:

Tara and Michelle usually rotated all of their jumps and looked good while doing them. Even Tara got more amplitude on her jumps.

Click to expand...

I agree. Satoko doesn't have small jumps in the way Michelle has "small" jumps. Michelle's jumps are small compared to say Yuna or Liza, but Michelle could still get all the rotation she needed. Satoko's jumps are so small she physically can't get the rotations with the time she has in the air.

silverlake22 said:

I think people would just like to see the jumps improve since the rest of skating is top notch and the jumps still leave a lot to be desired. Some people might also think she's overscored because they think she deserves -GOE or < on most of her jumps. I like Satoko's skating but she should work on her jumps. I know she is small but that alone isn't an excuse. Karen Chen is the same height as Satoko and nearly as delicate in her build, yet she has huge jumps. Flawed jumping technique is the main cause of Satoko's low jumps and something that I hope she looks into fixing, because with bigger jumps she would be fabulous!

Click to expand...

IMO, it's too hard to fix at this point. Look at Caroline Zhang..

andyjo24 said:

IMO, it's too hard to fix at this point. Look at Caroline Zhang..

Click to expand...

Satoko is sixteen and Caroline is twenty-one. Caroline did fix some of her jump entries before she had coaching changes like five million times.

Has Satoko had any type of growth spurt yet...even a little one?

She's so small and her jumps are too...that doesn't sound promising for the future when she gets bigger.

donezo said:

See, I am mystified by the pervading mentality that the Russians are the frontrunners. Tuk/Radionova will likely be the top two. But in an "everyone clean" scenario, Pogorilaya is going to come in 5th. Look at her Euros PCS. High 6's/low 7's for a girl who made two GPFs in a row and was 4th at Worlds last year? The international judges are not here for her. I think Polina and Satoko can/will pass her on the 2nd mark too. Pogo only makes the podium if Ashley and Gracie both make mistakes. It's certainly possible (I bet she beats Gracie, but that will be Gracie's fault), but she is not the bronze medal favorite. In my mind, Wagner has the clear advantage of the three. Let's not forget that she beat Radionova on PCS when both were clean in the GPF.

Click to expand...

I think Pogorilaya is more likely to go clean than Miyahara and Wagner and Gold, but Wagner has shown fire and consistency lately. Her two best scores this season (oddly 191.81 at both Skate Canada and Euros) are slightly higher than Wagner's best. That being said, Wagner has yet to go clean this season, but Pogo has had bad performances too. At this point I find it hard to picture Miyahara on the podium and unless Gold does a 180, she will be off the podium too.

Sam-Skwantch said:

Anyway...I'll let her jump speak for itself.

Satoko 3f @2014 4CC (6.13 pts with positive GOE)
http://youtu.be/9c2cSxjB6v0

Click to expand...

Wowzers.......this 3f breakdown I posted of Satoko's 3f has like 600 plus views.

I think I'm going to start a thread where people can suggest jumps for me to use my editor on so we can examine technique and get all angry with each other :yay:

I didn't even know you could slow down those low-quality stream caps of mine like that and still see that much detail. You should try that on a 1080p HD video at 60fps, like NBC/CBC footage. (I haven't posted any Satoko in this quality, but I could provide the necessary mini-clip if you really wanted to do it... )

sabinfire said:

I didn't even know you could slow down those low-quality stream caps of mine like that and still see that much detail. You should try that on a 1080p HD video at 60fps, like NBC/CBC footage. (I haven't posted any Satoko in this quality, but I could provide the necessary mini-clip if you really wanted to do it... )

Click to expand...

Sony Vegas is amazing. Worth the chunk of change it costs in terms of video editing software. I'm serious about starting a thread and taking requests.

Sam-Skwantch said:

Wowzers.......this 3f breakdown I posted of Satoko's 3f has like 600 plus views.

I think I'm going to start a thread where people can suggest jumps for me to use my editor on so we can examine technique and get all angry with each other :yay:

Click to expand...

sounds tempting

burntBREAD said:

Mirai Nagasu, Sasha Cohen

Click to expand...

Sasha medalled at Worlds and won an Olympic silver medal. I think she did better than the others overall. A step up.