2015 World Team Trophy Ladies FS Apr 18

Globetrotter · Apr 19, 2015

artsciboy said:
Definitely agree that Ashley got lowballed on the PCS marks and didn't get the benefit of the doubt on her 3-3 combos. I love how "Moulin Rouge" has evolved over the season - the little nuances she added post-Nationals make it less empty and she just really knows how to sell it. Loved the speed and transitions she had into that final 3z - she clearly got too excited, hence the edge switch/error.

Actually, I will say that Wagner should get another 0.5 more for PE and 0.25 for CH. However, she was over marked on SS and TR. Her edges are shallow and her speed is not on par with the top skaters. In fact, she has only mediocre SS IMO. For that matter, Miyahara only got 7.68 and 7.50 for SS and TR - that was the bigger travesty since Miyaharas speed, edge and overall skating blade depth was significantly stronger - her only weakness is her small built does not make her appear to cover as much ice on TV. Her more introverted and introspective skating also may not appeal as easily as someone who emotes and skate with bigger personality like Wagner, so I can see a point for lower PE scores but her musicality and ability to skate to music surely deserves higher IN and CH. For that matter, I will say Wagner's SS should at most be 7.75, TR 7.50. Since she was over marked for these two and low balled for the three more subjective components, I will say her PCS is about right. I think Tuks and Gold were both overscored in their PE, IN and CH while Miyahara was way low balled for all her PCS. Pity.

Jaana · Apr 19, 2015

Art&Sport said:
Gracie faltered (and she only had a slight lead over Liza Tukt after sp; TeamUSA lead overall was about 5 or 6 points going into FPs, but the final overall score was always going to be close). Ashley did not falter in the fp, she skated well with a minor fall-out, though it looks like the judges went hunting for stuff to ding her on and take points off. Still she had no major miscues, and came in 4th in both sp and fp.

I think if Wagner would not UR or twofoot some jumps, she would get better scores. It is not the fault of the judges that she does those things :laugh:

. It would not be fair towards other skaters if judges would just ignore her faults... On the other hand if a skater gets the reputation for being a skater with UR and twofooted jumps, maybe those will be expected and noticed more easily. It is her job to get rid of those faults!!! So far she has not worked with it enough, IMO.

Globetrotter · Apr 20, 2015

Art&Sport said:
Gracie faltered (and she only had a slight lead over Liza Tukt after sp; TeamUSA lead overall was about 5 or 6 points going into FPs, but the final overall score was always going to be close). Ashley did not falter in the fp, she skated well with a minor fall-out, though it looks like the judges went hunting for stuff to ding her on and take points off. Still she had no major miscues, and came in 4th in both sp and fp.

I feel like some of the judging is based on perception and politics and neither Gracie nor especially Ashley are politically favored right now internationally. Gracie would be if she could start believing in herself and make her nerves work for her. IMO Ashley and Gracie are both much more mature and refined skaters than Elena Radionova, and even Satoko who still has some growing to do. Clearly Gracie and Ashley aren't helping themselves unless they begin to lay programs down consistently and take advantage of opportunities to make a positive statement with the judges.

True, Wagner did not falter on her programme but she made enough technical errors with step out and flutzing and UR that her TES got docked. She was low balled a little on PE/IN I agree but if you consider her weak edges and mediocre ability to generate speed, her SS was overscored. I still am not sure how she could have higher SS than Miyahara who has deep secure edges and excellent bladework - to me it was second only to Gold and even stronger than Tuks or Radio. So overall, the PCS total for Wagner is about right. At this stage, I doubt she would ever be able to improve her SS significantly since she is not a naturally talented edge worker unlike Caro Kostner or Gracie Gold. She just got to hold her skates together and perform lights out to maximise her stronger PE/IN/CH as she has the maturity advantage. Tech wise, I think she is already maxed.

Tutto · Apr 20, 2015

Jaana said:
I think if Wagner would not UR or twofoot some jumps, she would get better scores. It is not the fault of the judges that she does those things . It would not be fair towards other skaters if judges would just ignore her faults... On the other hand if a skater gets the reputation for being a skater with UR and twofooted jumps, maybe those will be expected and noticed more easily. It is her job to get rid of those faults!!! So far she has not worked with it enough, IMO.

Ashley is well aware of her shortcomings in tech area and she was working with Rafiel very hard, the problem is that it is not easy to re-learn jumping technique, I would even go as far as saying it is impossible. I am sure she does better in practice but in a stressful situation of competition a muscle memory kicks in unfortunately.

AlexRus · Apr 20, 2015

WrongEdge said:
Great skate, although not clean. She looked very tired. Illness again or just fatigue?

Yes, Elena was ill.
And I believe it was her worst FS of season, even worse than at Worlds.
If she is in good state, she can compete with Liza regardless of Liza's 3A.

AlexRus · Apr 20, 2015

ruffledgrouse said:
Great skate from Satoko. Best I've seen.

Yes.

And seeing what skaters made "just now and here" Ibelieve that Satoko was better than Elena (while "at all" Elena of course is stronger than Satoko).

Sandpiper · Apr 20, 2015

Globetrotter said:
Actually, I will say that Wagner should get another 0.5 more for PE and 0.25 for CH. However, she was over marked on SS and TR. Her edges are shallow and her speed is not on par with the top skaters. In fact, she has only mediocre SS IMO. For that matter, Miyahara only got 7.68 and 7.50 for SS and TR - that was the bigger travesty since Miyaharas speed, edge and overall skating blade depth was significantly stronger - her only weakness is her small built does not make her appear to cover as much ice on TV. Her more introverted and introspective skating also may not appeal as easily as someone who emotes and skate with bigger personality like Wagner, so I can see a point for lower PE scores but her musicality and ability to skate to music surely deserves higher IN and CH. For that matter, I will say Wagner's SS should at most be 7.75, TR 7.50. Since she was over marked for these two and low balled for the three more subjective components, I will say her PCS is about right. I think Tuks and Gold were both overscored in their PE, IN and CH while Miyahara was way low balled for all her PCS. Pity.

The problem isn't necessarily Ashley's scores (though I think the 3Lz-3T wasn't UR, and the final 3Lz was ! rather than e; also, while her TR is weak in the SP, that's not the case in the LP). The problem is what other people around her scored. 68 PCS for Liza was needlessly over-the-top--65 would've been okay for a silly WTT event and still given her the win. Gracie's scores for everything aside from SS just made no sense; TR about the same, CH, INT, P/E all a lot weaker than Ashley's... so why does she have higher PCS overall (especially with a bad skate)? Satoko was lowballed in PCS, but she was given the benefit of the doubt on a lot of her pre-rotated, tilted, borderline jumps (whereas Ashley got the exact opposite treatment).

AlexRus said:
Yes, Elena was ill.
And I believe it was her worst FS of season, even worse than at Worlds.
If she is in good state, she can compete with Liza regardless of Liza's 3A.

I agree Elena has the best chance to capitalize on Liza's mistakes, since she is the most consistent skater in the field. However, I don't see her challenging Liza when Liza goes clean--Liza came out on top at Europeans when both were clean, and there wasn't even a 3A at the time.

Batsuchan · Apr 21, 2015

AlexRus said:
Yes, Elena was ill.

I saw on FSonline (one of the Russian forums) that Lena had a pinched nerve on the day before the FS and had to wear a neck brace...? (Not sure where this info is coming from though, because she never mentioned it.) Is that what you're talking about?

Assuming that's right, then...Poor baby!! I was wondering why she was clutching her neck/shoulders like that at the end of her program, but now I guess I know why...what a fighter she is. :bow:

AlexRus · Apr 22, 2015

Sandpiper said:
I agree Elena has the best chance to capitalize on Liza's mistakes, since she is the most consistent skater in the field. However, I don't see her challenging Liza when Liza goes clean--Liza came out on top at Europeans when both were clean, and there wasn't even a 3A at the time.

Liza not so often had clean FS at this season. Only at Euro, Worlds and one of local cmpetitions her FS was without doubled jumps. At other 11 competitions of season she doubled (or singled) one or two triples in FS.

Elena is much more stable. So Elena (and other best Ladies) have chance.

If Liza will be more stable next season, with 3A in SP and FS, she will give no chance to others if skating clean.

AlexRus · Apr 22, 2015

Batsuchan said:
I saw on FSonline (one of the Russian forums) that Lena had a pinched nerve on the day before the FS and had to wear a neck brace...? (Not sure where this info is coming from though, because she never mentioned it.) Is that what you're talking about?

Assuming that's right, then...Poor baby!! I was wondering why she was clutching her neck/shoulders like that at the end of her program, but now I guess I know why...what a fighter she is.

Advantage of Elena is that she skates good even being in bad state.
Before GP Final she was seriously ill (cold, high temperature) and had only two days of practice before flight to Barselona. In Barselona she was second.

Sandpiper · Apr 22, 2015

AlexRus said:
Liza not so often had clean FS at this season. Only at Euro, Worlds and one of local cmpetitions her FS was without doubled jumps. At other 11 competitions of season she doubled (or singled) one or two triples in FS.

Elena is much more stable. So Elena (and other best Ladies) have chance.

If Liza will be more stable next season, with 3A in SP and FS, she will give no chance to others if skating clean.

Liza was completely clean at GPF LP too.

While Liza isn't as stable was Lena, she is able to pull out the performances when they matter (GPF, Europeans, and Worlds). Doubling a jump at some B competitions isn't a sign of weakness to me (outright losing a B competition to no-names would be, but that didn't happen). And with the triple axel in the SP, Liza can afford one mistake in the LP.

Of course, we'll have to see what next year brings (not just for Liza and Lena, but for Yulia and Adelina who could be big threats if they're on form).

2015 World Team Trophy Ladies FS Apr 18

Globetrotter

Jaana

Globetrotter

Tutto

AlexRus

AlexRus

Sandpiper

Batsuchan

AlexRus

AlexRus

Sandpiper

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