Nathan Chen | Page 13 | Golden Skate

Nathan Chen

Tahuu

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
This jump 3A3F is not possible in this layout.
Do you mean 3A-1Lo-3F? He can't do that because the three jump combo is already used up in the 2nd jump.
Do you mean 3A+3T? He can't do that either because the 3T would be the third jump to be repeated.
But most likely the 3A will be solo because 3A is his weakest jump.
The third combo +2T or +2Lo would need to be tagged to one of the solo quads.

You are right. What about changing to 4F2T and 3A1Lo3F? That could have 122 bv and 133 tes if average goe is 1.
 

Tahuu

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Hopefully Nathan doesn't injure himself anytime soon.

With all those quads and the current state of his hip, I'm always concerned when I hear about him pulling off something new!

I doubt he would risk his health. In the teleconference he said he may actually scale back his current quad layout at nationals. However if skaters are fully trained and be able to do quads like triples in the future we may see all-quad programs.
 
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sheetz

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Nathan spent time talking about his injuries on the teleconference and says he is feeling much better compared to last year at this time. Last year he was pretty much in pain all week at Nationals but now he feels fine. During his time off he worked with a trainer at the Olympic Training Center to learn how to prevent injuries. In addition he now knows that once he feels something might be wrong with his body to get it looked at immediately.
 

da96103

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
I doubt he would risk his health. In the teleconference he said he may actually scale back his current quad layout at nationals. However if skaters are fully trained and be able to do quads like triples in the future we may see all-quad programs.

Since they are reducing the number of jump passes in FS after the Olympics to 7, an all quad can be done 7 quads in 7 passes. Imagine a winning FS program with no 3A.
 

sheetz

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Since they are reducing the number of jump passes in FS after the Olympics to 7, an all quad can be done 7 quads in 7 passes. Imagine a winning FS program with no 3A.
Unless they change the requirements an "axel type" jump is required in both the SP and FS. Of course Nathan could do 7 quads and a 2A. LOL
 

Tahuu

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Unless they change the requirements an "axel type" jump is required in both the SP and FS. Of course Nathan could do 7 quads and a 2A. LOL

Axel will still be counted as one jumping pass. So it would be 6 quads and a 3A post 2018. By then any skater with 4 types of quads, such as Yuzuru, Nathan, Boyang and so on, may potentially do an all-quad program. A true all-quad program including 4A may or may not be possible unless Yuzuru or another jumping wizard gets one.
 

gsyzf

Medalist
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
No, it's free to listen for everyone. No subscription needed.

By saying, "I've been working on all my quads, excepting the loop," he's saying that the 4L is one of his quads but that he hasn't been practicing it for the last two weeks. If he had never practiced 4L before then there was no need to mention loop at all. He would have just said, "I've been working on all my quads," and we would simply assume he has been working on the 4 quads that we have seen him attempt in competition.

Would he assume everyone knows exactly what type of quads he has been attempting in competitions? It's not like everyone pays attention to him and follows him. If he doesn't assume everyone knows what quads he's been attempting, then saying "excluding loop" sounds like a clarification that 4lo is not in his repertoire.

We have heard nothing about his 4lo before.
 
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sheetz

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Would he assume everyone knows exactly what type of quads he has been attempting in competitions?

In this case he was responding to Dave Lease who asked about putting the 4S back into his program. So he wasn't just responding to some random reporter.
 
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Ice Dance

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
He was, but all the reporters were listening in. I think most likely Nathan was just clarifying that he wasn't working on a quad loop. Literally speaking sheetz's interpretation is correct; but practically speaking, it's very common to start a sentence during an interview--then stop to clarify--and have it come out not quite accurately.

A particularly astute reporter ought to have followed up the statement and asked whether he had tried a quad loop in practice previously or was planning one in the future. (Perhaps one or two is kicking him or herself for not doing so now). It's not Nathan's pattern to talk about new jumps before he debuts them in competition.
 

gsyzf

Medalist
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
In this case he was responding to Dave Lease who asked about putting the 4S back into his program. So he wasn't just responding to some random reporter.

But there were more than one reporters in the conference call. Other reporters were listening to his answers and will quote and publish what he said to a bigger audience.

Literally speaking, your interpretation seems to be correct. But in the context, he sounded like he was clarifying he didn't practice 4lo rather than implying he has been practicing 4loin the past.
 
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gsyzf

Medalist
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
@gsyzf, You can't use iOS devices to watch or listen to icenetwork videos because iOS disallows flash player. Yeah, it's pretty dumb for icenetwork to ignore iPhone/iPad users. You have to use your laptop or desktop to listen to these conference calls.

If Nathan has a 4Lo, I think he could eventually do a layout with 7 quads by doing 4T3T, 4F2T2Lo, 3A3F, 4Lz, 4F, 4T, 4S, 4Lo in some order. That's where the 135 TES comes from.

Thank you. I could listen to the conference call by switching to a windows computer. A 7 quad layout is risky. In fact, any layout with any number of quads is risky. If a 7-quad layout is risk-free, then you will sure see him try that. Not just him, but many skaters will try 7 quads since they get many points for the quads. 7-quad layout is very risky and very likely will results in many mistakes and injuries. The rules after 2018 won't encourage that kind of layout either.

I think 4 quad LP is doable and 5-quad is pushing his limit. I hope he can skate a clean sp (with 3a) at national (he did skate a cleanish SP at TDF, but with only a 2a), so he can have at least one clean sp and one clean lp this season. I think it's too much to expect him to skate two clean programs with so many quads in one competition.
 
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da96103

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Unless they change the requirements an "axel type" jump is required in both the SP and FS. Of course Nathan could do 7 quads and a 2A. LOL

ISU can't do that since it is called the FREE skate though they can rename it Not Exactly Free Skate.
 

gsyzf

Medalist
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Hopefully Nathan doesn't injure himself anytime soon.

With all those quads and the current state of his hip, I'm always concerned when I hear about him pulling off something new!

There are a few skaters who are attempting the same number of quads as him, e.g. yuzuru and boyang. I don't think he faces significantly higher risky of injuries than skaters who attempt the same number of quads. I think the biggest risk of injuries comes from overtraining. But i don't believe anyone overtrains on purpose. There is usually a reason that pushes them to overtrain, usually because they want to achieve a certain goal, e.g. they want to win/make the olympics or worlds team, or have something to prove. I think the main reason Nathan overtrained himself last season was because he wanted to make the senior worlds team. He was a junior last season and was pretty much nobody in senior circuit. The only way for him to make the senior worlds team was to do many quads because it was not possible for him to get high goe and pcs in senior competitions without any senior experience. (American judges have always preferred mature artists, so he was even less favored by American judges at national.) Juniors are not allowed to do quads in the sp. So he did 2 quads in JGP, 3 quads in JGPF, then 6 quads at national. The increase in the number of quads in a short period of time caused him to overtrain. The injury he had last season was almost unavoidable.

This season, he goes into national as the heavy favorite. So he would have less push to overtrain himself. Athletes deal with injuries all the time. IMO, as long as the injuries are not so severe that require surgeries, they can be managed.
 
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gsyzf

Medalist
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
No, it's free to listen for everyone. No subscription needed.

By saying, "I've been working on all my quads, excepting the loop," he's saying that the 4L is one of his quads but that he hasn't been practicing it for the last two weeks. If he had never practiced 4L before then there was no need to mention loop at all. He would have just said, "I've been working on all my quads," and we would simply assume he has been working on the 4 quads that we have seen him attempt in competition.


Nathan said this in this article.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-a...igure-skater-nathan-chen-has-his-eyes-n705741

“Once you land a jump, you put it straight in the program. That’s the way I’ve always been doing it. Once I landed the triple Salchow, I put it in the program. First landed triple toe, straight into the program. That’s what I did with my quad suite.”

....

But like with 2018, Chen is only cautiously optimistic.

"Of course, there are more quads that I can put in, whether it's another quad loop or more of the same quad into the program. That's kind of the next step, I suppose," he said. "At the moment, I want to take it one competition at a time."

------------

Is 4lo just a plan or something he already landed?
 
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gsyzf

Medalist
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
TSL posted clips from Nathan's practice yesterday and he did a run through of his FP replacing the 3L with 4S.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzQE45EdOT4

So he is planning 4s in the 2nd half? I guess whether he will do 4S depends on his practice on the day of the competition and maybe his LP performance during national too. He attempted 4S in the 1st half of the program (as 3rd jump) twice this season and mistakes on the 4S led to more mistakes in the rest of the program. Maybe doing 4S in the 2nd half (as 6th jump) will have less impact on the rest of the program even if he makes mistakes on 4S since there are only 2 triple jumping passes after the 4S.
 
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gsyzf

Medalist
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Yesterday's practice SP:
youtu.be/OK3m0EcouZs

Huge 4Lz, gorgeous 4F, shaky 3A (LOL)

I think his 3A got a bit better now. At least he has landed them :laugh:

American judges' taste and preferences is really different. They are unpredictable.

Today is the President's Inauguration Day. Maybe there will be some good luck in tonight's competition.
 
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